News & Rumors: Xbox One (codename Durango)

[SenjutsuSage]

I'm not worried about it "simply being". I'm okay with it as a feature. I'm wondering why it is required. I'm not worried about them storing pictures for the government. I'm worried about them storing pictures for UA. What happens if there is a false reading? Will I not be able to log in to my XBL account? Do they plan on identifying people and items in my living room for targeted ads? These are things that I would find annoying.

Cell phones, ipads, etc don't use cameras like this. They are typically hidden devices with cameras that can be disabled.

Also I'm worried that they are going to force Kinect for UI. ERP just said its likely going to required for use in most games. I'm not interested in waving my arms and talking to my hardware.

Maybe you don't think these things are a big deal, but I do and I'm not alone. Look, I'm not saying that MS is definitely going to use Kinect in this manner, but these are questions that need to be asked and answered when Durango is presented.

Well, using the dual shock and analog stick additions to the first playstation controllers as an example, ERP may indeed be correct. However, unless the game is a mostly Kinect focused title, I just don't see it dominating or crowding the traditional controller out of the gaming experience, so not a big concern there. Most games supporting it can simply just mean that more developers think of interesting ways to use it as an extension of the controller, and it wouldn't surprise me in the least if people end up liking some of it to a large extent. Not a big concern there either.

I tend to think most developers are smarter than gamers give them credit for. What kind of false reading are you referring to exactly? What precisely could a Kinect camera ever see you doing that would warrant your being locked out of your XBL account? You realize just how high the burden of proof would have to be for someone's account to be banned, or for you to be reported to the authorities in any form? If what you're thinking about sounds a little too crazy and extreme, then I'd say the chances of it happening are slim to none. Relax. Microsoft aren't that insane.

Identifying people and items in your living room for targeted ads? I suppose better than ads for crap you don't care about, right? But, playing devil's advocate, god forbid that the new Kinect could recognize that you own an Ipad and would show you some advertisement for the smartglass app or something, or if it could tell that there were 6 people in a room (which I believe it can) and then it would show an ad for some kind of party game or movie that multiple people might enjoy playing together or at least watching together, would that really be the end of the world? If you're going to get ads anyway, and you know you're going to get ads, wouldn't it at least be less annoying if there's a chance the ads have a greater probability of actually being something you might actually be interested in?

For example, I was recently in the market for a new keyboard, but I didn't just want any keyboard, I wanted a really nice mechanical keyboard that made nice loud clicks when I hit the keys and it also needed to look pretty damn good, too. I regularly visit a few anime/manga forums, and right at the very top of one of my favorite forums one day just so happened to be a really nice looking keyboard for sale on amazon that seemed to fit the bill perfectly: The Razer Blackwidow Ultimate. But shortly after I clicked this ad, the same ad started to show up on other sites that I visit often, even some popular gaming forums like GAF. I doubt this was by coincidence, so I'm left thinking that clicking that ad on one site stored something on my computer, I don't know, but it ultimately led me to purchase it because I was never made to forget about that nice looking keyboard I saw. That was probably a rare case of targeted advertising that worked and was actually helpful.

It's just about the only time in my life where I've ever found an online ad useful. I can find ads as annoying as the next guy a lot of times, but I wouldn't exactly be opposed to steps being taken to somehow make the ones I do see more relevant to me and my interests.

It isn't like this would ever be used to personally identify you with any particular group. At best it would be no different from how Microsoft and other companies gather anonymous information on how people use windows and other products. The most controversial thing by far about the new xbox would be if it somehow didn't allow offline gaming. Other than that, I don't see what we have to be worried about with this other stuff.

For Microsoft's sake it better be groundbreaking as they won't be able to sell their console on poweror unique graphical capabilities this time around. If the leaks hold true, they're going with unremarkable hardware this generation, so quite honestly whatever they're planning with Kinect is going to have to be nothing short of miraculous. Because aside from Kinect, there isn't much left to Durango to talk about.

They didn't even sell the Xbox 360 like that... at least not anywhere close to the way you're thinking they did. Sony did more chest thumping on Power of the PS3, Cell Processor, blu ray and 1080p than Microsoft did on any individual part of the 360. Microsoft sold the Xbox 360 on the basis that it was simply much more powerful than the original Xbox with hi def gaming, they sold it with an improved Xbox live and they sold it with their games lineup and increased developer support. And guess what? Microsoft can again sell the new xbox as much more powerful than the Xbox 360, with an again improved xbox live, and again games lineup and developer support.

 

[GrimThorne]

But look at how Kinect changes the conversation from games to seeing our living rooms as advertising real estate. lol

 

[dagamer]

I interpret "Kinect is required" to mean "Developers, every user will have Kinect, have no fear incorporating it into your game". At least with the current 360, no "hardcore" AAA used Kinect in a critical way because it wasn't included with every system (and expecting everyone who didn't have a Kinect to pay $99 for it is suicidal).

 

[SenjutsuSage]

But look at how Kinect changes the conversation from games to seeing our living rooms as advertising real estate. lol

Oh you! lol. I fear for the person with a bag of doritos and mountain dew lying around within Kinect's peripheral vision

Seriously, though, Microsoft has plenty with which to sell the new Xbox on, because, quite frankly, not enough people understand nor care about the individual specifications of these machines. To most people, it is a foregone conclusion that Microsoft always puts out a powerful machine, and there's nothing indicating that Durango isn't powerful. Another machine having more impressive looking specifications does not disqualify Durango as a powerful machine. Look at what 343 did with Halo 4. You think Microsoft will have trouble selling gamers on 343 tackling future Halo titles this time with a console as powerful as Durango? You think they'll have trouble selling gamers on a new Forza title with this kind of power advantage over the Xbox 360? You think they might have trouble selling gamers on a new GTA, COD and a whole host of other games on a much more powerful and new xbox?

How many average gamers, besides just the few hardcores such as ourselves, can tell you the first thing about a cell processor, Compute Units, ROPS, GDDR5, Unified Shader Architectures and memory bandwidth? Or a more precise question might be how many of them even care? They show up at a store, or they see videos online of running Durango games and they think the game looks amazing, what then? Can they truly look at an amazing game running on the new xbox and tell that it has less compute units or is using DDR3 2133 instead of GDDR5? They will look at games and features. Microsoft can sell this thing as a powerhouse if they want, and do so easily.

 

[scently]

All they have to do is give you a base install to get started, and then as you play more of the game is installed in the background, hopefully the "next level" before you need it. Of course, if you have a slow Internet connection, that might not work out too well. It would be the same as how you'd do a background install from a disc as you play.

Indeed. Which is why I said if you have the bandwidth. I don't understand what he is trying to argue here.

 

[kots]

For Microsoft's sake it better be groundbreaking as they won't be able to sell their console on poweror unique graphical capabilities this time around. If the leaks hold true, they're going with unremarkable hardware this generation, so quite honestly whatever they're planning with Kinect is going to have to be nothing short of miraculous. Because aside from Kinect, there isn't much left to Durango to talk about.

Agree 100 % .
Not interested in kinect , not interested in their "vision" , what there is left for me is a shockingly low specced machine and because of that my games will suffer .
With every new Durango rumor , me and my friends "jump out" .

 

[function]

The preferences and purchasing intentions of you and your friends aren't really relevant to this thread.

 

[warb]

If this is "shockingly low specced" for you, you're probably not going to get much joy out of consoles this time around.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

All they have to do is give you a base install to get started, and then as you play more of the game is installed in the background, hopefully the "next level" before you need it. Of course, if you have a slow Internet connection, that might not work out too well. It would be the same as how you'd do a background install from a disc as you play.

8GBs RAM is going to need quite a few GBs of data just to get started, so I expect partial installs to still have significant hours of delay for many of us.

 

[mrcorbo]

For Microsoft's sake it better be groundbreaking as they won't be able to sell their console on poweror unique graphical capabilities this time around. If the leaks hold true, they're going with unremarkable hardware this generation, so quite honestly whatever they're planning with Kinect is going to have to be nothing short of miraculous. Because aside from Kinect, there isn't much left to Durango to talk about.

Have you not been paying attention to any of the press releases showing the changing ways that consumers are actively using the current crop of consoles? A significant portion of the total story of both PS4 and Durango, in the form of the services they will provide, has yet to be told.

 

[function]

8GBs RAM is going to need quite a few GBs of data just to get started, so I expect partial installs to still have significant hours of delay for many of us.

Yeah, even on a good day my broadband is slower than a 1X DVD drive (and sometimes downloads from Xbox aren't even half that!)

 

[AlphaWolf]

8GBs RAM is going to need quite a few GBs of data just to get started, so I expect partial installs to still have significant hours of delay for many of us.

You'll be downloading heavily compressed data (I hope), but if you're on a slow connection, yes you'll need to wait, but it might still be quicker than a trip to the store.

 

[Gubbi]

If your on a slow connection, buy the disc and do an install.

In the rest of the world, where 10Mbit/s DSL is the bare minimum, DD is going to be very convenient.

Cheers

 

[Shifty Geezer]

You'll be downloading heavily compressed data (I hope), but if you're on a slow connection, yes you'll need to wait, but it might still be quicker than a trip to the store.

Assets are already heavily compressed on discs to speed up loading, and heavily compressed on download titles. Heavy compression is mostly lossy so there's not much further that downloads can go. The idea of just downloading a five minute starter file and then you're playing while the rest downloads is nigh impossible. If it were possible, why have we had to suffer load times for games on discs when they could have loaded a 20 MB starter and filed in the rest while the game was under way? I expect the minimum necessary download to be four or five gigs. Even if only two gigs, it'll be a long wait for people, and not the 'almost instant' gaming that some are hoping for. 10 Mbps as Gubbi suggests is going to be 40 minutes for 3 GBs.

 

[dobwal]

If your on a slow connection, buy the disc and do an install.

In the rest of the world, where 10Mbit/s DSL is the bare minimum, DD is going to be very convenient.

Cheers

Yeah. I think many forget that Xbox Live required broadband and did so in the age of dial up. You are never going to produce a forward looking design if you are caught up in the limitations of today.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

If this is "shockingly low specced" for you, you're probably not going to get much joy out of consoles this time around.

Durango is a pretty significant jump over the Xbox 360 in a number of ways. That's really all that matters.

 

[bkilian]

FWIW I think if it's in the box I'd guess the majority of games will require it, even if it's only for voice input using the mic array.
Once you put a peripheral in the box you dramatically change the way designers think about it.

Especially if using it is one of the TCRs...

 

[Scott_Arm]

8GBs RAM is going to need quite a few GBs of data just to get started, so I expect partial installs to still have significant hours of delay for many of us.

What is the average game size going to be? 25 GB? Download the first 5-10 GB or so and start playing sounds better than waiting for the whole thing. Could be the difference between play tonight or play tomorrow night when I get home from work / school.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

It is obviously better, and I'm not saying otherwise. But the original remark by scently was:

Interesting. This also means that, depending on your internet bandwidth, you can buy a digital game and start playing it almost immediately while the rest of the game downloads in the background.

Hardknock disagreed, and you replied to him saying:

All they have to do is give you a base install to get started, and then as you play more of the game is installed in the background,

Hence you were arguing in favour of scently's position, even if you didn't mean to because you were replying to Hardknock without being sure of his train of thought as connected to the source. Thus I felt it worth pointing out that "almost immediately" isn't realistic. An hour's wait is probably more accurate. It'll certainly be much better than this gen which required full downloads.

 

[XpiderMX]

Can it be a Durango DevKit?

From the Tequila Works twitter:

"New hardware. When we manage to make it work it will be amazing"

Maybe it is a PS4 or even a SteamBox Devkit, but they have worked with MS before.