News & Rumors: Xbox One (codename Durango)

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Rockster said:
They put a $499 hold on just the console alone so you can't go by that at all.
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I'm guessing it may have some validity. Sounds about right anyway. Old Kinect was $110 MSRP at EOL I think.

$499 for just the console makes sense because well, that's the MSRP. They probably dont care w/without Kinect it's viewed as $499 of value since Kinect is useless without the main console but not vice versa.

Nintendo charges $140 for a replacement Wuu Pad (at least last I heard), and that too sounds about right to me. That leaves $160 for the Wii U console, and you can buy the 4GB Xbox for 179-199, and I'm guessing the BOM's are somewhat similar, similar die sizes, both flash storage based, etc. Also $340 base console makes sense compared to $399 PS4, ~same size SOC/hdd/blu ray, DDR vs GDDR. Of course it will not be perfect and I am not saying it is.
 
The motivation behind a $160 hold is to ensure that quickly replacing a broken Kinect under warranty isn't used for nefarious reasons.

Doing it at cost, would present opportunities to replace Kinects at cost even due to users' fault.

Doing it at retail like prices ensures that its easier just to go to your local retail (in case of Kinect just going through the normal means of replacing Kinect when its out of warranty or due to user abuse/mistake) versus doing it by cheaper means through a replacement program under false pretenses.

The replacement is suppose to be free, the holds are for times when MS thinks the user is doing something outside of the warranty agreement and in that case why charge that user at cost? You are just rewarding them for bad behavior.
 
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Lorne Lanning says PS4/X1 gap is closing due to tools (Interesting, I noticed AC4 GDC Dev presentation called out X One's great profiling tools in one area, which I thought was interesting given we've been hearing Sony was ahead in that area this gen)

http://www.xboxachievements.com/new...S4-Will-Disappear--Says-Oddworld-Creator.html



The creator of the Oddworld series said that while a performance gap between Xbox One and PS4 was noticeable in early releases, the situation is changing fast.

“So I would say, months ago, there was a wider gap,” said Lanning. “Part of it was the development systems,” he explained, before going on to say that it was common to hear devs complaining that getting assets onto Xbox One took “twice as long” as PS4.

Just a few months on, however, and Lanning believes that the process is getting easier.

“We’re hearing and seeing that that curve is getting closer,” he said. “I think at the end of the day when people maximize both systems, they’re each powerful enough[…] They’re in that class of when you watch the basketball, you’re going to be like, ‘Is that TV? Or is that a game?’”

According to Lanning this is in part due to Xbox One developer tool improvements.

“I think they’ve been improving the toolset really fast, improving the development environment and shaving that curve down… I think they’re getting comparable.”

“You know, if you want to run at 1080p, Battlefield, I’m not exactly sure how that’s going to tax the system at that higher end, but I’m sure in couple of years it won’t be a problem. We’re early.

“I have to say, the PlayStation 4 has been pretty amazing and that’s where we’ve been spending a lot of our time,” he continued. “But I don’t see a huge gap like there used to be. There used to be a significant gap.”
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Lanning added that the early disparities between Xbox One and PlayStation 4 reminded him of the Xbox and PlayStation 2 era, when Oddworld Inhabitants was making Munch’s Oddysee. According to Lanning, the resources needed to make game on PlayStation at the time were becoming increasingly expensive.

“You know this is why we supported the original Xbox,” he said, “because it was kind of like a promise to get out of the upward slippery hill that was PS2 and then PS3.”

Oddworld Inhabitants is currently working on a from-the-ground-up remake of Oddworld: New ’n Tasty for PlayStation 4. Lanning is also in talks to bring the game to Xbox One, as part of the ID@Xbox program. Should he be successful, Lanning doesn't believe there will be any noticeable differences in performance between the different console versions.

“For us, we aren’t taxing it that heavy, like I say it’s not Battlefield,” he said. “For us, we don’t really see that we’ll have performance problems on either and we’ll be able to get what we want, with very dynamic looking lighting, particle effects, etc.”
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It's an odd statement to make because the hardware discrepancy is always going to be there. I can see the dev chain becoming easier on the XB1 until it matches, or surpasses, the chain on the PS4.

On smaller, simpler, titles I don't see why there would be any differences between devices. Those that don't tax the system and are light on effects etc. But the bigger, open world, more complex titles are still going to suffer.
 
This isn't a versus thread. The news and rumour is XB1 tools are improving (shock newsflash! More bulletins on the hour of this breaking story).
 
Shifty Geezer said:
This isn't a versus thread. The news and rumour is XB1 tools are improving (shock newsflash! More bulletins on the hour of this breaking story).
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The stories or at least quotes, indicates that the improved tools are making up for hardware disadvantages. Pretty hard to understand how that would work.

As I read it, the tools are more about making it easier to develop for the xb1 and it's that gap that is being closed.
 
-tkf- said:
The stories or at least quotes, indicates that the improved tools are making up for hardware disadvantages. Pretty hard to understand how that would work.

As I read it, the tools are more about making it easier to develop for the xb1 and it's that gap that is being closed.
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With better tools you generate better code at the same amount of time.
 
NRP said:
Just wait until they flip the switch and turn on the secret sauce!

LOL!
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How long did it take developers to make use of the EDRAM in the 360 that most people, even on this supposed tech-focused site, said was a waste of money and silicon and turned out to be a huge benefit?

I don't follow things all that closely, I'll admit, but I've read numerous statements from developers that say all current offerings are ignoring the ESRAM in the One.

So.. secret sauce? No, because we know it exists. But the One was made with a specific design choice in mind to use the built in ESRAM to cache or feed the slower DDR2. And the DDR2 does have lower latency than the GDDR in the PS4. If this can be balanced according to the design (of course, without a great deal of extra effort), I think we should expect to see the gap close and improvements in the One.

At least in terms of the memory. The gap in GPU generations is something that can't be overcome, obviously.
 
-tkf- said:
The stories or at least quotes, indicates that the improved tools are making up for hardware disadvantages. Pretty hard to understand how that would work.
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There is an implicit assumption in this interpretation that disadvantages can only be on one side.
It's very early in this generation to render a final verdict. We haven't gotten to see where different strengths balance out, and whether there are any nasty gotchas waiting in the wings.
 
3dilettante said:
There is an implicit assumption in this interpretation that disadvantages can only be on one side.
It's very early in this generation to render a final verdict. We haven't gotten to see where different strengths balance out, and whether there are any nasty gotchas waiting in the wings.
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I am sure both designs have advantages over the other. But there are some hard specs that simply can't be ignored. Hence my suggestion that this was more about development tools than gaining performance.
 
Being able to use the CPU without crippling the GPU is nice.

Assuming your render targets aren't already crippling due the eee-esss-rahm (obligatory lol).
 
I think he meant to say because it doesnt exist.

Also what is really the purpose of mocking the esram?
I mean no disrespect to you function, but it is really to early to pass judgement on what the Xbox one's memory system is capable of. The only thing that can truly be said about the inclusion of the esram in the X1 is that it would be much worse without it.
 
shredenvain said:
I think he meant to say because it doesnt exist.

Also what is really the purpose of mocking the esram?
I mean no disrespect to you function, but it is really to early to pass judgement on what the Xbox one's memory system is capable of. The only thing that can truly be said about the inclusion of the esram in the X1 is that it would be much worse without it.
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It could be worse. What kind of fatalistic argument is this?
 
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