News & Rumors: Xbox One (codename Durango)

[steveOrino]

I'm sorry but that wasn't the market - it never got far enough to be measured there.

It was a bunch of internet forum posters and gaming web sites that reacted violently, and some other websites were reporting about the situation.


As for the disc drive, the way I see it only the following people care about it:
- those who aren't content with DD only (and look at Steam to see just how many gamers are not like that)
- those who don't yet have a BR player but want to get one

Everyone else will be happy to get the cheaper system.

Exactly.

You can't look at the market through the internet hate machine lens alone.

The only issue with going full digital is the internet infrastructure in certain regions of the world. Low speeds and bandwidth caps are still barriers to full digital media distribution. 30-50 gig downloads are a dramatic jump to the 7~14 gig games of the past gen and gamers are looking at 12 hours or more for games that large. Even more if you share a connection with other people.

That said, MS dropped the PR ball though the floor with their messaging which contributed to a lot to the torches and pitchforks people were throwing at them.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

The only issue with going full digital is the internet infrastructure in certain regions of the world. Low speeds and bandwidth caps are still barriers to full digital media distribution. 30-50 gig downloads are a dramatic jump to the 7~14 gig games of the past gen and gamers are looking at 12 hours or more for games that large. Even more if you share a connection with other people.

This is my chief consideration.

While I have no caps on downloads my internet tops out at 18mbps (effectively 2Mb/sec) and I can't go faster until fibre deploys in my area. I put a 1Tb 7200rpm HDD in my PS4 on day one and ideally would like to go fully digital but I know that over the course of 5-7 years that 1Tb is going to fill up with games being larger than last gen. If I upgrade the HDD I will still have a ton of downloading to do to re-populate the new HDD.

So I've decided to go digital for games upto 25Gb (max) and disc for anything over. The idea of having to delete games, then if I want to play them again, waiting hours before I can, is not appealing compared to a disc I can slot in and get going in minutes.

I'll probably revisit this purchasing policy when I get fibre.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

The only issue with going full digital is the internet infrastructure in certain regions of the world.

Indeed. We've a lengthy discussion on this board about the viability of an all download console. An optional download console will serve those able to use it, while the hard-copy console will serve everyone else and not restrict MS's potential userbase. This may have been part of MS's decision process when deciding what sort of distribution to go with, and could mean that the download console is already a finalised design, or close to.

 

[zed]

Obviously MS have realized their machine aint selling as good as the competition and are forced to cut the price, though they dont want to be seen cutting it $100 (which would piss off everyone who's brought the machine already) so remove HD and match the ps4 price (i.e. get ~75$ less than what they are taking now, guessing the bluray is ~25$) though I dont think the original buying publics going to be happy with that, they will most likely have to throw in a few games.

but IMO thats still not going to be enuf, Like I said here a couple of months ago, they have to go cheaper, $350 is what I said. I predicted here the xbone to outsell ps4 in dec NPD which it did do but at ~200k less than I thought, I also predicted it to outsell it jan NPD but now are picking the ps4 (~350k vs ~550k) MS have to watch out or else we might have a ps2 scenario happening, where publishers will concentrate chiefly on that machine.

 

[DuckThor Evil]

My biggest problem with DD only SKU would be that disc based games typically reduce in price much faster and more. It would suck seeing a game on Amazon.uk for 33-50% cheaper than in the online MS store, but I could only buy it from MS. If the retail game had a code that would unlock the DD version, I'd be totally ok with no disc drive.

 

[joker454]

My biggest problem with DD only SKU would be that disc based games typically reduce in price much faster and more. It would suck seeing a game on Amazon.uk for 33-50% cheaper than in the online MS store, but I could only buy it from MS. If the retail game had a code that would unlock the DD version, I'd be totally ok with no disc drive.

I think that's the fundamental problem because outside of Steam, dd pricing tends to be patently absurd on most other platforms and products.

 

[dagamer]

Obviously MS have realized their machine aint selling as good as the competition and are forced to cut the price, though they dont want to be seen cutting it $100 (which would piss off everyone who's brought the machine already) so remove HD and match the ps4 price (i.e. get ~75$ less than what they are taking now, guessing the bluray is ~25$) though I dont think the original buying publics going to be happy with that, they will most likely have to throw in a few games.

but IMO thats still not going to be enuf, Like I said here a couple of months ago, they have to go cheaper, $350 is what I said. I predicted here the xbone to outsell ps4 in dec NPD which it did do but at ~200k less than I thought, I also predicted it to outsell it jan NPD but now are picking the ps4 (~350k vs ~550k) MS have to watch out or else we might have a ps2 scenario happening, where publishers will concentrate chiefly on that machine.

The Xbox One costs $100 more than the PS4. In what world did Microsoft expect to sell more than Sony? It's not about beating the competition, but not being so far behind that a price drop is a given, and we absolutely aren't at that point yet, certainly not 2 months out with not a single system seller out on either console.

We know people will buy an Xbox One for TitanFall. We know they will buy one for Halo. The question is of that's enough to make up for a $100 difference in price. Keep in mind that even at $100 less, the PS2 still outsold the GameCube by leaps and bounds because of the games. Let's wait for a few of those to roll in first before going all doom and gloom.

 

[zed]

The Xbox One costs $100 more than the PS4. In what world did Microsoft expect to sell more than Sony? It's not about beating the competition, but not being so far behind that a price drop is a given, and we absolutely aren't at that point yet,

True Im not talking about worldwide but the xbox's strong markets. Last gen 360>ps3 in USA/UK. So far in 2013 according to NPD USA PS4>xbONE, UK PS4>ONE and this is with the ps4 more supply constrained than the xbone. If you dont think this is a cause for MS to take action when is? when the ps4 is 20million and the xbone 8million?

 

[Cyan]

True Im not talking about worldwide but the xbox's strong markets. Last gen 360>ps3 in USA/UK. So far in 2013 according to NPD USA PS4>xbONE, UK PS4>ONE and this is with the ps4 more supply constrained than the xbone. If you dont think this is a cause for MS to take action when is? when the ps4 is 20million and the xbone 8million?

I agree with you. Still, you have to take into account PS3 has a solid fanbase in the US and the UK already and many of those sells can come from them, especially when the console is cheaper, more solid services wise -X1's dashboard still needs some improvements, it's too ambitious atm-.

More Xbox One voice controls trolling.

Kinda off-topic but okay... The Norwegian genius Magnus Carlsen beats Bill Gates at chess in 9 moves.

[URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84NwnSltHFo"]

 

[-tkf-]

Another point would be that a disc less sku no matter what some here may think, is fundamentally a lesser product than the sku with a optical drive. So a price parity with the PS4 could still be considered to expensive..

Less powerful,* and no optical drive.. at the same price.

*To be determined..

 

[DrJay24]

I'm sorry but that wasn't the market - it never got far enough to be measured there.

It was a bunch of internet forum posters and gaming web sites that reacted violently, and some other websites were reporting about the situation.


As for the disc drive, the way I see it only the following people care about it:
- those who aren't content with DD only (and look at Steam to see just how many gamers are not like that)
- those who don't yet have a BR player but want to get one

Everyone else will be happy to get the cheaper system.

You left out a slew of people. People who like to buy from Amazon and retail, lend or trade games, people with bandwith caps, etc. It's another pspgo and it will never be released. Taking a $25 optical drive is not going to get them $100 back, Kinect or bust.

XB1 is never going to be Steam, most people buy games for $5 on Steam, not $60.

 

[liquidboy]

XB1 is never going to be Steam, most people buy games for $5 on Steam, not $60.

I didn't realize XB1 was trying to be steam, I thought it was more that Xbox Live and its store was doing similar things to steam..

And Xbox Live is across phone/tablet/pc etc .. so I can buy a $5 game on any device that has xbox live service and hopefully ill be able to play it on any screen (windows phone, surface, windows 8 pc, xb1 etc) ...

 

[-tkf-]

I didn't realize XB1 was trying to be steam, I thought it was more that Xbox Live and its store was doing similar things to steam..

And Xbox Live is across phone/tablet/pc etc .. so I can buy a $5 game on any device that has xbox live service and hopefully ill be able to play it on any screen (windows phone, surface, windows 8 pc, xb1 etc) ...

Buying a xb1 to play mobile games?

 

[Billy Idol]

I agree with you. Still, you have to take into account PS3 has a solid fanbase in the US and the UK already and many of those sells can come from them, especially when the console is cheaper, more solid services wise -X1's dashboard still needs some improvements, it's too ambitious atm-.

More Xbox One voice controls trolling.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvBwezmeW1M">YouTube Link</a>[/media]

Kinda off-topic but okay... The Norwegian genius Magnus Carlsen beats Bill Gates at chess in 9 moves.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84NwnSltHFo">YouTube Link</a>[/media]

Oh my god...how old are those kids playing...10years?? Not shocked about the trolling...but the age of the gamers...

 

[Deleted member 11852]

I didn't realize XB1 was trying to be steam, I thought it was more that Xbox Live and its store was doing similar things to steam..

DrJay24's post was in the context of pricing but in terms of ownership rights of bought software, the original Xbox One DRM plan was far closer to Steam than the conventional retail model where ownership is tied to a disc.

Not to mention that Microsoft had loosely outlined a 'lending' mechanism for digital content that Steam subsequently announced. I'd say Steam and Live (original Xbox One plan) had more in common than differences.

 

[JPT]

This is my chief consideration.

While I have no caps on downloads my internet tops out at 18mbps (effectively 2Mb/sec) and I can't go faster until fibre deploys in my area. I put a 1Tb 7200rpm HDD in my PS4 on day one and ideally would like to go fully digital but I know that over the course of 5-7 years that 1Tb is going to fill up with games being larger than last gen. If I upgrade the HDD I will still have a ton of downloading to do to re-populate the new HDD.

So I've decided to go digital for games upto 25Gb (max) and disc for anything over. The idea of having to delete games, then if I want to play them again, waiting hours before I can, is not appealing compared to a disc I can slot in and get going in minutes.

I'll probably revisit this purchasing policy when I get fibre.

I went DD Only when larger titles was starting to get released day 1 for PS3. But not all was available, but most. It also meant I did not get a couple games SSX and Twisted Metal are a couple, since they did not release day 1 as DD version.

I decided to not install a bigger disk in the PS4 now, I am waiting for a 1.5TB or 2TB disk that fits into a PS4 to be released, so I do not have do the re-install loads of stuff sometime down the road.
But at the same time, my PS3 has a 500GB disk and its now full, I've had to delete stuff to be able to download new stuff. And I've found that I do not mind, because most of the stuff I am not playing, like 98%, so no real loss. So by the time I upgrade my PS4 HDD, it might not even bother with downloading the old games anymore.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

I decided to not install a bigger disk in the PS4 now, I am waiting for a 1.5TB or 2TB disk that fits into a PS4 to be released, so I do not have do the re-install loads of stuff sometime down the road.

I thought about this and I think 2Tb would be more than enough to see me through this generation, with minimal (or no) deleting. That's based on me purchasing approximately 50 full priced games during PS3's lifetime. But having looked at 2.5" HDD capacity increases I estimated I'd hit 500Gb before a 2Tb was available at a price I'd be willing to pay and that I'd probably have been upgrading twice anyway.

Mind you games like Lego Marvel Super Heroes, which weighs in at 6-7Gb on PS4, gives me hope that not all games will be denting the free space on my HDD. And I sure hope that games makers will be more conscious of HDD install sizes going forward.

But at the same time, my PS3 has a 500GB disk and its now full, I've had to delete stuff to be able to download new stuff. And I've found that I do not mind, because most of the stuff I am not playing, like 98%, so no real loss. So by the time I upgrade my PS4 HDD, it might not even bother with downloading the old games anymore.

With a few exceptions I find I revisit old games a few times a year. I still play the original Motorstorm and Virtua Fighter 5 and both were European launch games. But admittedly there are a bunch of games I doubt I'll revisit. Assassin's Creed, 2 and Brotherhood. And once I've mopped up the collectibles in Assassin's Creed IV, I doubt I'll be revising that. But I'm conscious of buying these types of games on disc so I can trade those few in.

I'm hoping Sony will eventually support some kind of HDD migration, i.e. you connect your new replacement HDD to your PS4 with a caddy and it copies the contents to the new drive which you then swap in. The thought of downloading even 500Gb, let alone 1Tb, isn't pleasant even with a fibre connection.

 

[Zachriel]

There are indirect ways of making savings when going digital. Just before launch I topped my Live account up with codes bought from sites such as cdkeys as well as eBay.

At the time you could get £50 xbox gift cards for about £42. On eBay I got a £50 gift cards for £36, as well as £20 gift cards for £12.99.

As a result I payed less for my launch games than I would have payed buying from the likes of Amazon.

So far I've loved the experience of primarily going digital. I used to only ever really play one game at a time, but now it's so easy to switch games using voice commands that I find myself playing more than one game in a session. The experience has also made me wish Microsoft stuck to its original plan. Really would have liked the digital sharing as well.

Because of this positive experience I would seriously consider a digital only Xbox as my second system, but then I do have 40Mbps connection which is truly unlimited (doesn't even have a fair use policy).

I do a similar thing with memberships as well, I don't tend to pay more than £26 for my annual Gold membership (rrp £39.99) and I recently bought a year of Xbox Music for £32, rrp £89.99, from eBay.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

There are indirect ways of making savings when going digital. Just before launch I topped my Live account up with codes bought from sites such as cdkeys as well as eBay.

Likewise PSN cards which can easily be found 20% cheaper than their face value. Anybody who is loading up credit on their Live or PSN accounts using a credit card is missing a trick.

 

[Zachriel]

Likewise PSN cards which can easily be found 20% cheaper than their face value. Anybody who is loading up credit on their Live or PSN accounts using a credit card is missing a trick.

I have a few friends who despite telling them this still buy directly on their credit card. One just renewed Live, as well bought BF4 and BF4 Premium for full price.