I'm not so certain 20nm would be in sufficient volume until 2015, let alone be cost effective at all in 2014.
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I'm not so certain 20nm would be in sufficient volume until 2015, let alone be cost effective at all in 2014.
Why? We know about the move engines, we know about the SHAPE, we know about the (low latency) ESRAM. If you actually put things into perspective, the lack of FLOPS isn't an issue at all.
Not sure about the bare minimum part.
Going by what they say about how quiet it is, I believe they could have got away with it being a bit louder at load during gameplay, and very few people would have cared.
I'm not talking leaf blower, just bit more than whisper quiet or whatever it's supposed to be.
DuckThor Evil
Legend
That's soon enough for me. Serve the "hardcore" for the first 1-2 years and then broaden more in to casuals. The lifespan is so long that more power would have been welcome imo. The design is very conservative compared to X360, too much imo.
The a lack of FLOPS could be an issue or it could not but at the moment we can't really say anything about it.
Basically yes. That's why I hate all the versus discussions about FLOPS everywhere.
But a reference can turn a useless opinion into a factual observation. Big or quiet are just opinions. Someone said it's big, but have qualified the opinion with a size reference, we have exact dimensions, and a picture with known sized objects. I can agree or disagree that it's too big (which is pointless, just like saying it's quiet or loud), but objectively it's bigger than X and smaller then Y.
The data I'm looking for is how quiet it is compared to known devices. I want to estimate it, and argue about it.
I have the image of the heatsink design, a wattage estimate to make a wild guess. Now there's a bunch of statement on the internet saying it's quiet, some say dead silent. People repeat it very often as fact, but there's no reference, so it's useless data. If someone would say it's quieter than a PS3-slim, or louder than a bluray player, then it's worthy info, and it would make me readjust my guess. It would create hard limits for speculations.
Yes and no if people see value in the Xbox one price won't matter .yes it matters to your hardcore gamer who just wants to sit in his room head set on shooting other players in what ever is the latest flavour of the month FPS .
But a family entertainment device that the whole family can enjoy is not constrained by price in the same way .
It costs no more than a decent flat screen TV .....dear got I know parents who buy the kids mobile phones that cost more tablets that cost about the same .
They see value in it and spend the money .if a family sees value in the Xbox one it will sell like hot cakes regardless of price .
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rokkerkory
Regular
I agree with this but more after the first 6+ months, the $100 price difference becomes a barrier as core gamers would have paid the $5000. Casual gamers are more price conscious (like myself).
The only game that would sway me to get x1 is TitanFall, it is simply a console seller imo much like gears 1 was for 360. I held out until gears 1 came out and hoping I can hold out longer this time around.
That's not accurate.
I agree with this but more after the first 6+ months, the $100 price difference becomes a barrier as core gamers would have paid the $5000. Casual gamers are more price conscious (like myself).
The only game that would sway me to get x1 is TitanFall, it is simply a console seller imo much like gears 1 was for 360. I held out until gears 1 came out and hoping I can hold out longer this time around.
I don't think Microsoft are aiming for the casuals there aiming for the family living room a device that offers different experiences to different family members .
Look there vision at e3 before the 180 it was a machine always connected ....family sharing of games ...there whole vision was of a family entertainment box connected to your always online satellite or cable box always online always up to date for ease of use .
A completely different vision from there rival there still on for that vision .a expect to see game sharing appear a second hand digital market as well .my guess is these things will make a come back around the first price drop .
Yes it is in the 70s 80s arcade machines out stripped consoles in the 90s and 2000s high end PC have always out performed consoles .
Especially relative to the competition. I expect that, "Pay $100 more because Kinect & TV!" is going to be a tough sell.
rokkerkory
Regular
I don't know because almost every commercial I have seen shows a family or couple in the living room using the 360? Maybe this will change will x1 but in order to grow the platform, they have to go after casuals at some point. I guess to me casuals include or is equal to family.
X1 is really an accessory for and extension of the current family entertainment setup. Its supposed to work WITH your other entertainment products (settop box, receivers etc) not as an isolated silo. If you have a cable, satellite or fiber service you choose tha implementation for a reason because you find value in that choice. X1 isnt designed to usurp that choice but to allow games to take a meaningful place alongside television, movies and streaming media.
If your settop box is disconnected from the provider you cant get programming.
If your streaming media box (roku/appletv) is disconnected from the internet you have no media.
Xbox is supposed to follow the same model. I dont mind the some of the changes the backlash caused (you dont have to be logged in to play a game thats is already resident on your system...duh) but other wise its a model consistent with our mobile, always connected lifestyles - in America.
If your settop box is disconnected from the provider you cant get programming.
If your streaming media box (roku/appletv) is disconnected from the internet you have no media.
Xbox is supposed to follow the same model. I dont mind the some of the changes the backlash caused (you dont have to be logged in to play a game thats is already resident on your system...duh) but other wise its a model consistent with our mobile, always connected lifestyles - in America.
To the hardcore non family gamer yes your right .
But to the family man who started playing games in the 70s and 80 now has two point two children of different ages . A wife who enjoys social media and small games of her tablet .its not such a hard sell as everyone in his family can enjoy what the Xbox one offers .
Like I said Microsoft are looking to a different market the family that's why the hardcore gamer is spitting his dummy out on the internet the biggest company in gaming is saying your only part of our vision .where as there rival is saying we still love you .
Again its just my opinion on the available facts as I see them .
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The definition of hardcore gamer is so loose its impossible to meet that requirement. When I started gaming in the 70's and 80's You had Atari 2600 basically. Then the colecovision. The europeans were on the Sinclair I think in those days... Hardcore gamers play EVERYTHING and are arent by definition brand loyal.
Gaming is their passion and where the bulk of their disposable income goes. You arent hardcore because you played every COD or HALO ad infinitum (unless you make money from FPS tournaments). Hardcore gamers play race, adventure, rpg, turn base, fps, third person, puzzle and more types of games. They play anything thats good, on any system that makes that experience available.
This attempt by people of any console manufacturer to wrap themselves in the "flag of the hardcore" is ludicrous. You may be a hardcore gamer but not because you have chosen a platform to act out your alter gaming ego.
Gaming is their passion and where the bulk of their disposable income goes. You arent hardcore because you played every COD or HALO ad infinitum (unless you make money from FPS tournaments). Hardcore gamers play race, adventure, rpg, turn base, fps, third person, puzzle and more types of games. They play anything thats good, on any system that makes that experience available.
This attempt by people of any console manufacturer to wrap themselves in the "flag of the hardcore" is ludicrous. You may be a hardcore gamer but not because you have chosen a platform to act out your alter gaming ego.
I agree with everything you said I'm a gamer full stop I'm classed as hardcore as I also collect old machines and games .all though I've put that on hold until the new house is finished
I don't think Albert P's recent post helped Microsoft's case much at all. While many of his points seemed valid, his first two seemed like pure hand-waving. Am I alone in thinking this? Am I misunderstanding how these things work?
Those first two points, heavily paraphrased, were:
My understanding was that graphics tasks are so inherently parallel that throwing more cores at those problems tends to "Just Work". I'm sure it's not a perfect correspondence, but it's pretty dang close. Yes? No?
I don't understand what he's trying to imply in his second point, at all. I assume he's just confused, but I'd like to hear if what he's saying makes any more sense to the experts here.
Lastly, and changing the subject, how crazy would it be if Microsoft is being prevented (via an NDA) from talking about some super-neato aspect of their hardware? Wouldn't that just perfectly fit in with the rest of this "rolling thunder" of a PR disaster they've been executing on? "We've released all the unimpressive parts of the specs, but are prevented from discussing the good parts. Please understand."
I'm not saying I believe that's what's happening, by God, wouldn't that just be par for the course this year?
Those first two points, heavily paraphrased, were:
- 50% more CUs doesn't mean 50% more-bettah "graphics".
- Boosting "each" CU by 6% is somehow better than boosting the entire GPU by that amount.
My understanding was that graphics tasks are so inherently parallel that throwing more cores at those problems tends to "Just Work". I'm sure it's not a perfect correspondence, but it's pretty dang close. Yes? No?
I don't understand what he's trying to imply in his second point, at all. I assume he's just confused, but I'd like to hear if what he's saying makes any more sense to the experts here.
Lastly, and changing the subject, how crazy would it be if Microsoft is being prevented (via an NDA) from talking about some super-neato aspect of their hardware? Wouldn't that just perfectly fit in with the rest of this "rolling thunder" of a PR disaster they've been executing on? "We've released all the unimpressive parts of the specs, but are prevented from discussing the good parts. Please understand."
I'm not saying I believe that's what's happening, by God, wouldn't that just be par for the course this year?
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