News & Rumors: Xbox One (codename Durango)

[Rangers]

Surface RT (Windows RT) was hacked, quite easily and quickly as it turned out.

I can see XB1 also being hackable, and now that it shares a common core with Windows possibly some of those hacking techniques in the windows world may apply to XB1

Yeah, Microsoft is target #1 for hackers. They will focus every resource imaginable on breaking the X1 for sure. Whereas something like the Wii U, hacking has stalled for lack of interest.

Yes it's a shame that some companies are based on old business models that are no longer valid. Gamestop and their ilk is really no different than the Horse-Whip-Makers going under with the uprising of the automobile. With all businesses they need to adapt or die.

Yep, is anybody gonna cry for Blockbuster because Netflix makes them redundant?

I told him the answer is simple, those companies and factories will move elsewhere (as they already have.. from Japan, to China, to Taiwan) to where ever the cheap labor exists. At some point, there will be a tipping point. Where population levels are too great to sustain the continued increase in standard of living and people will once again be forced to take whatever jobs are available in order to just sustain basic survival. And right about that time, machines will be advanced enough to take over the majority of jobs anyway.

If you aren't doing something that requires creativity, or something that can't be easily defined by a written process, then your head is on the chopping block. It's on its way. It will happen, and probably in our life time.

But, yes. The first to go are going to be the Gamestop employees that offer nothing to the sales process and can be easily replaced by vending machines. Gamestop employees and fast food workers, they are in the same category and they will go first.

I hate to OT for a second but this stuff is so interesting It's best to understand that people being replaced by machines can only raise our standard of living theoretically. People just focus on the jobs lost in certain narrow sectors and dont get it. My favorite overused example is that I read backhoe's are banned in India because it takes jobs from people with shovels. They miss the forest for the trees.

The only time there will be nothing left to do (aka no jobs) is when everybody in the world has everything they want, from a mansion to a sports car to unlimited medical care. I dont see that day coming soon, if ever obviously. Until it does, there will always be more than enough work to do. And even if that day did ever come, we could all just take a whole lot of time off.

But enough OT

 

[RancidLunchmeat]

My position on this is simple. But that's because I'm MS's target audience. I want something that allows me to play games without putting discs, that allows me Day 1 digital downloads so I don't have to go to the game store or worry that they are sold out and force me to pre-order, or that I can't play my game on another console if I choose.

I don't care about always on internet access, I have about 10 devices already that are always connected to the internet and always on (even if I "turn them off").

I don't care if Kinect is going to spy on me while I switch from my One to my HTPC and jerk off to whatever crazy perverted porn I want to watch. Really? Why would they be watching and recording me out of all the other of millions of people? And if they are? Who cares?

Do you think I can't still run for President of the United States even if there is Kinect video of me jerking off to a video of a gangbang of midgets wearing panda suits?

If you think that's the case, then you haven't been paying very close attention to US politics let alone Global Politics (in which case the midget panda suit wearing constituency would come out in full support).

This whole thing is absurd.

And again, for the umpteenth time, MS is not the one who is going to get sued. All MS has done is leave it up to the publishers to decide how they handle the transfer of licenses.

The EU can sue MS all they want. They will get laughed out of court because MS isn't the one restricting ANYTHING. It's the publishers that will be restricted used game sales and rentals. If the publishers get sued and say "Oooops, sorry, my bad" then everything will revert back to the way it was.

But if you don't think the publishers don't have enough case law available to them in order for them to believe they have a legitimate position then you're simply out of your mind.

And, just to put this back in here again: You people keep saying that MS will get sued because people won't understand what they are buying. Uhhhh.. MS is the only company that is making it very well known before the launch, before the purchase, the requirements you need in order to use their product. Sony has been completely silent on this. If anything, it's Sony that is going to get sued after people buy their product and find out they have similar restrictions that Sony didn't tell them about prior to purchase.

All this negative press could very well be seen as a way to head-off all these lawsuits that you think are going to happen.

 

[Cyan]

I don't think MS care about game developers, I think they care about publisher relationships. Publisher don't care about developers either. Developers only get the money that the publisher promises to pay them - and often not even that.

I have a feeling publishers are ultimately involved, more than we think.

Maybe publishers threatened Microsoft and just want them to make it mandatory for users to connect to the internet so that the majority of people who have always had broadband can be fed all of the content the greedy publishers and the NEW greedy Microsoft CEOs want to throw at them instead of leaving their Xbox One box disconnected from the network.

Publishers do not care about those who have a bad connection or don't have a connection at all, there is no way these people are going to make publishers and Microsoft money on their myriad of DLCs and services and rip offs, they are not.

Since those aren't going to make publishers the same amount of money they are inconsequential to them and publishers are glad to get rid of them.

It doesn't help they are a small group of people nowadays. But yes, let-s forget being caring and human, show some humanity and rip off the core instead while they ignore everyone else who can't connect and hence they can't daylight rob.

I am looking at you Activision. *they technically robbed me once*.

 

[RancidLunchmeat]

I hate to OT for a second but this stuff is so interesting It's best to understand that people being replaced by machines can only raise our standard of living theoretically. People just focus on the jobs lost in certain narrow sectors and dont get it. My favorite overused example is that I read backhoe's are banned in India because it takes jobs from people with shovels. They miss the forest for the trees.

The only time there will be nothing left to do (aka no jobs) is when everybody in the world has everything they want, from a mansion to a sports car to unlimited medical care. I dont see that day coming soon, if ever obviously. Until it does, there will always be more than enough work to do. And even if that day did ever come, we could all just take a whole lot of time off.

But enough OT

We can talk more about this on Live or via PM or via the politics forum if you want to continue this conversation. I'm not saying that what I see as an inevitability is a good thing, only that it is.

It does have synergy with what we're talking about now, in terms of DD and always online removing physical media and the human resources needed to facilitate it, but I think we've gone a bit too far down that rabbit hole for this thread.

 

[pc999]

Last OT

I told him the answer is simple, those companies and factories will move elsewhere (as they already have.. from Japan, to China, to Taiwan) to where ever the cheap labor exists. At some point, there will be a tipping point. Where population levels are too great to sustain the continued increase in standard of living and people will once again be forced to take whatever jobs are available in order to just sustain basic survival. And right about that time, machines will be advanced enough to take over the majority of jobs anyway.

IIRC Foxcon (where Apple and even Nintendo do their stuff) is building right now a automated fabric that can reportedly replace 1.000.000 persons

Anyway a few possibilities are:

- Less work for everyone (or replace it by formation, training education...), this actually would boost economy because it would mean people would have more time, that mean (eg) buy more games ;
- Less mass products stuff and more biological food (things wouldn't get pricier, just the big profits from Monsanto would go down, we would be better in every way, actually);
- More and better social services, eg more teachers for less kids;
- ...



Back on topic all of this stuff saddens me a little , gameplay wise, because Kinetic could be a wonderful piece of gaming masterpieces in its own way but with all the backlash I don't think it will even have traction for such ventures

 

[Averagejoe]

If the downclock was true then Microsoft would have had to have told the developers well before this whole thing came out.

If developers knew about this, then most of the major gaming outlets would have been able to confirm the downclock from their sources and would have reported it as that would have been a major news story guaranteed to generate massive amounts of revenue generating hits.

The fact that not a single major gaming outlet has confirmed this means it is highly unlikely to be true because none of the developers know about a downclock.

Regards,
SB

The way i see it it was time,MS was running late they are fighting to get better yields still miss and they reach a point where it is all over,is time to lower clock and tell developers,this is not out of the question the original xbox GPU was down clock 50mhz on 2001.

Most if not all of the leaks that happen were not associated with gaming outlets but with SuperDaE leaks.

So there is a chance that this happen and developers know it,hell MS probably knows who has games target for launch and who doesn't which make the news more easy to deliver for MS,since they can only target developer with launch game and exclude every one else until after E3 or close to launch.

 

[RancidLunchmeat]

Last OT
:

I would love for you to join us in a discussion about all of this OT stuff, if you want to.

If somebody wants to start a thread about it and provide a link here in this thread, that would be great. Although we'd probably be inundated with those people who just live for those off-topic threads.

If you want to start any other sort of communication, I'm welcome to it. You can send me a PM and we can discuss.

I'm a government worker in the US, so I'm not one of those "Guvmit workers steal our money" guys.

Anyway, if you want to discuss more, perhaps we can all find a way to communicate about it. But it shouldn't be in this thread.

 

[AzBat]

hardly, it's a difference of opinion

Exactly. Sad for them. Myself? I'm not crying about the new used distribution/digital games, etc. It's inline with what I want.

Personally my only fear is that the mass hysteria will affect games I want to come to my system of choice. I blame MS for doing a shitty job at getting a clear message out the first time. Had they been clear that this was how it was going to work, many months ago, I'm not so sure there would have been as much backlash. I fear it's so bad that even if they show awesome looking games & a clear message at E3 it will still be muddied by all the other shit that's been going on. MS seriously underestimated the vocal viciousness of the narcissistic hard core gamer.

Tommy McClain

 

[RancidLunchmeat]

I have a feeling publishers are ultimately involved, more than we think.

Maybe publishers threatened Microsoft and just want them to make it mandatory for users to connect to the internet so that the majority of people who have always had broadband can be fed all of the content the greedy publishers and the NEW greedy Microsoft CEOs want to throw at them instead of leaving their Xbox One box disconnected from the network.

What makes you think that the publishers threaten Microsoft?

Really? Do you believe that? And if you do, don't you think they also threatened Sony with the same deal?

Isn't it far more likely that the publishers came to MS and Sony and they all came to an agreement on what was going to happen? And if Sony didn't agree, well... aren't they just going to get fucked? In terms of not getting their games released at the same time, etc.. etc..?

I don't doubt for a second that this is all coming from the publishers. But when you say the publishers threatened MS, you must be out of your mind. MS could buy up every single one of them if they wanted to. Of course they don't, because those publishers are still (balance sheet wise) showing losses.

But do the publishers still have enough push to say "This is what we want.. everybody needs to agree."

Yes, they do. And do they have enough push to say "If you do this for us and they won't, we'll give you 6 moths or 1 year exclusivity.." Yes they do.

All those people who think this is MS's idea are so far in left field that they can't even catch the fly ball. They're playing baseball when the game is basketball and the shot is clean and open.

It's pathetic. Either Sony is going to have the same DRM that MS has already announced, OR MS is going to have such a far superior relationship with the publishers that Sony can't even touch it will be the death bell for Sony.

 

[Averagejoe]

Larry Hryb (Major Nelson) is not an idiot. If there was a downgrade in GPU specs he would have said something like; "We don't respond to rumors..." He knows what the subject was about and what the rumor was and made it pretty clear that was false.

Now, you can say that he is PR, and all of that but that was pretty clear. Microsoft may have not been clear with their wording at their conference, but that was pretty clear and straight forward.

People should stop interpreting his reply as a sign that this is not true,Major Nelson is a MS employee and will defend the brand,don't expect him to say yeah we have problems.

How many times did you see MS or Major Nelson actually talk up front about RROD and say what was the real problem.?

Because what they send was a weak statement,after they deny for a year and half that the console had higher than normal fail rates.

Sony people would probably do the same as well.

 

[Rangers]

People should stop interpreting his reply as a sign that this is not true,Major Nelson is a MS employee and will defend the brand,don't expect him to say yeah we have problems.

How many times did you see MS or Major Nelson actually talk up front about RROD and say what was the real problem.?

Because what they send was a weak statement,after they deny for a year and half that the console had higher than normal fail rates.

Sony people would probably do the same as well.

So if he doesn't deny it it's true and if he does deny it he's lying? So what are they supposed to do?

I get what you're saying but I def dont think his tweet counts for nothing.

 

[Averagejoe]

All this negativity yet they are apparently breaking pre-order records, just goes to show really.

http://crave.cnet.co.uk/gamesgear/xbox-one-hits-amazon-as-console-breaks-pre-order-records-50011346/

That without numbers doesn't say much.

But as of now.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bestsellers-PC-Video-Games/zgbs/videogames

The PS4 is at number 5 the xbox one at number 10 so at this very moment the PS4 is selling faster in UK amazon.

 

[RancidLunchmeat]

Exactly. Sad for them. Myself? I'm not crying about the new used distribution/digital games, etc. It's inline with what I want.

Personally my only fear is that the mass hysteria will affect games I want to come to my system of choice. I blame MS for doing a shitty job at getting a clear message out the first time. Had they been clear that this was how it was going to work, many months ago, I'm not so sure there would have been as much backlash.

Huh? How do you figure that? Everything that the internet gamer nerds were up in arms about due to MS's wishy washy answers have been confirmed by MS.

I don't see where there's been any amount of FUD after the MS reveal. Everything that gamers interpreted from the reveal have been confirmed by MS.

Gamers were worried about the ability to play used games: Confirmed. Gamers were worried about the console checking in every 24 hours or being bricked regarding games: Confirmed.

I don't see how MS could have done anything else. It was just speculation that threw the internet into an uproar, and MS came back out and confirmed all the things all those people were pissed off about.

How could they have done a better job at telling people "You don't own these games, the publishers do" and "If you don't have broadband access we don't want you as a customer because you can't play our console for more than 24 hours"?

It seems to me that MS made their message very clear originally, and then clarified it again for those people (like me) who didn't believe they were really going to limit their customer base to only those people who had broadband internet access.

It's a very daring business decision. Does it effect me? Nope. But again, I'm a member of their target audience.

I'm sure they've made more money off of me through Live subscriptions and game and music and video and movie downloads than they've made off of me actually buying games. And I've bought my fair share.

 

[Averagejoe]

So if he doesn't deny it it's true and if he does deny it he's lying? So what are they supposed to do?

I get what you're saying but I def dont think his tweet counts for nothing.

MS will not confirm any bad news about their brand,in fact Major Nelson blamed the media for the whole DRM fiasco and call Phil Harrison comment inaccurate and incomplete like if Harrison was wrong.

All of what Harrison say was confirm yesterday so yeah he was right,and after Major Nelson blamed the media for MS inefficiency to communicate how the DRM worked,they had no choice but to come forward and say what was the real deal.

No matter how people slice it this measure take rights away from people,and the console needs online and not just any 1.5MB which make things even worst.

I don't know what happen to MS is like they are trying to kill the xbox brand or just play ignore what gamers want.

 

[Averagejoe]

Huh? How do you figure that? Everything that the internet gamer nerds were up in arms about due to MS's wishy washy answers have been confirmed by MS.

I don't see where there's been any amount of FUD after the MS reveal. Everything that gamers interpreted from the reveal have been confirmed by MS.

Gamers were worried about the ability to play used games: Confirmed. Gamers were worried about the console checking in every 24 hours or being bricked regarding games: Confirmed.

I don't see how MS could have done anything else. It was just speculation that threw the internet into an uproar, and MS came back out and confirmed all the things all those people were pissed off about.

How could they have done a better job at telling people "You don't own these games, the publishers do" and "If you don't have broadband access we don't want you as a customer because you can't play our console for more than 24 hours"?

It seems to me that MS made their message very clear originally, and then clarified it again for those people (like me) who didn't believe they were really going to limit their customer base to only those people who had broadband internet access.

It's a very daring business decision. Does it effect me? Nope. But again, I'm a member of their target audience.

I'm sure they've made more money off of me through Live subscriptions and game and music and video and movie downloads than they've made off of me actually buying games. And I've bought my fair share.

What i don't get is how they did not expected how people have react,since this rumors of always online,Kinect included and always on and not use games appeared more than 1 year ago people have been expressing their dislike for it.

Is like MS really didn't care,in fact didn't they say that they were listening.?

Who say that Major Nelson.? Which was like giving false hope to people that they would change the whole DRM after the May 21 mess up.?

I just don't get it MS really fell for publisher and money.

 

[Kb-Smoker]

I'm just ready for some xbone good news. When will this train wreck stop?

Whoever is marketing should be fired on the spot. Whoever thought it was a good idea to lead e3 with this stuff.... wow. Everyone saying Sony doing the same thing then let them drop the bombs. Now Sony looks like the white Knight that being strong arm into drm or they don't get games.

From twitter "deal with it", to the reveal... it's been a test case for just terrible marketing. E3 is going to make it or break it for xbone.

Say what you want about defending everything else about the xbone. But the marketing or message has been a disaster.

 

[DJ12]

"Nice" story from MS sponsored newspaper in the UK
But they won't record you or upload your data, no sir.

 

[dumbo11]

"Nice" story from MS sponsored newspaper in the UK
But they won't record you or upload your data, no sir.

It's the sun which doesn't really count as a newspaper...

Otherwise, I'd expect to see 'positive' PR articles start to appear in that paper.

[the sun is owned by news corporation which also owns Sky. Sky are reportedly in talks to sell xbox1s as some form of Sky TV interface thing]

 

[Arwin]

The privacy bit I am probably the least concerned with ... if it happens, that will be found out soon with package sniffers, and then they would suffer pretty badly for it.

 

[Laa-Yosh]

...

Just to clarify what I've meant:

a few people you know, who haven't seen any X1 games yet, has some problems with the policies at this moment

and this means things are looking grim in the whole European continent??