new (?) Rambus XDR memory and PlayStation 3 information

[Megadrive1988]

Panajev, I think, is simply getting 128 MB @ ~51 GB/sec from the article

(1) the memory quantity which is loaded onto PlayStation 3, from 256MB of expectation of beginning was reduced by half to 128MB. (2) the memory zone of PlayStation 3, was redoubled to approximately 51.2GB/sec from approximately 25.6GB/sec of expectation of beginning. The possibility of having this either modification is high.

 

[aaaaa00]

Panajev, I think, is simply getting 128 MB @ ~51 GB/sec from the article

(1) the memory quantity which is loaded onto PlayStation 3, from 256MB of expectation of beginning was reduced by half to 128MB. (2) the memory zone of PlayStation 3, was redoubled to approximately 51.2GB/sec from approximately 25.6GB/sec of expectation of beginning. The possibility of having this either modification is high.

The article is saying, Sony has two options given they are not using the 512 mbit chips:

1. cut the memory in half, keep the chip count the same, and keep the same bandwidth.

OR

2. keep the memory at 256 MB, double the chip count, and hence, double the bandwidth.

I don't think 128 MB @ 51.2 GB/s is possible with a 256 mbit x 4 chip configuration.

 

[ChryZ]

Anyone involved with the important stuff about PS3 is under strongly enforced NDA. I doubt Rambus would be so stupid to break that NDA and blab out strategic information like memory budget. To me it's more about examples of possible setups and not the amount of XDR mem.

 

[nAo]

I don't think 128 MB @ 51.2 GB/s is possible with a 256 mbit x 4 chip configuration.

It's possible (one manufacter may produce modules with a data bus 32 bits wide..) but I believe that's not the case.
If the 256 Mbits modules story is true PS3 will have a 128 Megabytes and 25.6 GigaBytes/s external memory or a 256 Megabytes with 51.2 Gigabytes/s external memory..

Anyone involved with the important stuff about PS3 is under strongly enforced NDA.

How do you know?

 

[Brimstone]

On the surface this may look like, Playstation 3: Fahrenheit Rambus XDR.


However, I feel this is good news for the PS3 performance wise. I'll think they'll go 256 MB with a 51.2 GB/bandwidth. Of course Intel supported Rambus and we all know how big of a disaster that was. Will something similar to what happened to Intel because of Rambus also occur to Sony?

 

[Guden Oden]

Brimstone:

Remind me again of what type of RAM is used in the current PS2 console...

 

[Farid]

Will something similar to what happened to Intel because of Rambus also occur to Sony?

PS2 already have Rambus. And as far as i can tell, it's not a disaster.

And the problem with the Intel case, was that people (buyer) had to buy really expensive ram (Rambus), in a console, people don't care about the inner of the machine, they buy it as is.

 

[Panajev2001a]

128 MB at 51.2 GB/s, it might seem crazy, but it would make sure the CELL chips are running at peak efficiency and if developers go crazy with very funky geometry and texture compression algorithms which are computationally heavvy, it might all work out.

Panajev,

How are you getting 128 MB at 51.2 GB/s?

The chips are 256 mbit/chip at 3.2 gbit/pin/s with 16 pins, that means a 256x4 (128 MB total) config will clock in at 25.6 GB/s.

An 8 chip config, 256x8 (256 MB total) will clock in at 51.2 GB/s though. But it's going to be more expensive. Double the chip count, double the trace count.

Or double the clock-rate from 400 MHz to 800 MHz and you get 6.4 GHz of data signalling rate and 51.2 GB/s.

 

[passerby]

Oh yes, I see the forum has noticed the error in my translation. I must have misread the 8 chips @ 512MB part - too many '256's and '512's in the article.

My bet is on 256MB @ 51GB/s. Bandwidth will be the main deciding factor of a system's performance - it may even have already happened this gen.

 

[Brimstone]

Will something similar to what happened to Intel because of Rambus also occur to Sony?

PS2 already have Rambus. And as far as i can tell, it's not a disaster.

And the problem with the Intel case, was that people (buyer) had to buy really expensive ram (Rambus), in a console, people don't care about the inner of the machine, they buy it as is.

Of course Sony isn't as powerful as Intel, but XDR is totally new and if it didn't have the support of Sony, Rambus would have a much bleaker looking future. The problem with Sony supporting Rambus XDR is that it isn't widely used, so the volume doesn't exist compared to DDR-II, GDDR-III, and even RLDRAM-II.


I'm really curious what Ram Microsoft is going to use.

 

[nAo]

I could be wrong..but I don't think DRAM cells on XDR modules are so different from other kind of DRAM cells used on modules couple with other memory interfaces...

 

[jvd]

Will something similar to what happened to Intel because of Rambus also occur to Sony?

PS2 already have Rambus. And as far as i can tell, it's not a disaster.

And the problem with the Intel case, was that people (buyer) had to buy really expensive ram (Rambus), in a console, people don't care about the inner of the machine, they buy it as is.

Of course Sony isn't as powerful as Intel, but XDR is totally new and if it didn't have the support of Sony, Rambus would have a much bleaker looking future. The problem with Sony supporting Rambus XDR is that it isn't widely used, so the volume doesn't exist compared to DDR-II, GDDR-III, and even RLDRAM-II.


I'm really curious what Ram Microsoft is going to use.

Ddr 1 600mhz 512 megs of it

 

[bbot]

According to the leaked Xenon whitepaper, the aggregate bandwidth of the 256MB of main memory for Xenon is 22.4GB/s. Did Sony see this and decide to boost the memory bandwidth from 25.6MB/s to 51.2MB/s?

 

[zidane1strife]

128 MB at 51.2 GB/s, it might seem crazy, but it would make sure the CELL chips are running at peak efficiency and if developers go crazy with very funky geometry and texture compression algorithms which are computationally heavvy, it might all work out.

I think if they go with such a low amount of xdr, they'll have to add an additional pool of cheaper slower ram. Developers will beg for it, at the very least, I'd say. If they included another pool of either 512MB or 1024MB of another slower cheaper ram, it'd be ok. Is there any technical problem that would prohibit such a thing? I mean right now most ram is quite cheap, next year for a big corp, it should be a steal. Unless there's some ridiculous technical hurdle that adds too much cost or dev. problems, I think it'd be an ideal solution, use XDR as a temporary storage solution, and stream chunks from a larger chunk of slow stuff.

 

[jvd]

128 MB at 51.2 GB/s, it might seem crazy, but it would make sure the CELL chips are running at peak efficiency and if developers go crazy with very funky geometry and texture compression algorithms which are computationally heavvy, it might all work out.

I think if they go with such a low amount of xdr, they'll have to add an additional pool of cheaper slower ram. Developers will beg for it, at the very least, I'd say. If they included another pool of either 512MB or 1024MB of another slower cheaper ram, it'd be ok. Is there any technical problem that would prohibit such a thing? I mean right now most ram is quite cheap, next year for a big corp, it should be a steal. Unless there's some ridiculous technical hurdle that adds too much cost or dev. problems, I think it'd be an ideal solution, use XDR as a temporary storage solution, and stream chunks from a larger chunk of slow stuff.

I don't think u will see another pool of 512mb or 1024 mbs. I want to know what your smoking.

This isn't ddr400 ram they will be using. This is cutting edge extremely expensive ram. I would wager that 256 megs of 50gb bw ram will be at least 100$-150$ if not more when the ps3 launches .

 

[Panajev2001a]

I could be wrong..but I don't think DRAM cells on XDR modules are so different from other kind of DRAM cells used on modules couple with other memory interfaces...

RAMBUS says you can use any regular DRAM cell inside the XDR memory chip: the XDR interface inside the memory chip handles the RAMBUS specific features.

 

[Vince]

I'm just going out onto the proverbial limb here, but I've become intrigued by the possible duality behind an increase in aggregate external bandwith and the chatter concerning an increase in the BE's logic.

I have the feeling a more fundimental, strategic, change has been occuring; The knee-jerk reaction is something Microsoft would do Bbot.

 

[Megadrive1988]

do tell more Vince, of this chatter.

 

[aaaaa00]

Or double the clock-rate from 400 MHz to 800 MHz and you get 6.4 GHz of data signalling rate and 51.2 GB/s.

If you want to kill your yields and raise your costs, which defeats the purpose of switching from the 512 mbit chips to the 256 mbit chips in the first place, no?

 

[zidane1strife]

This isn't ddr400 ram they will be using. This is cutting edge extremely expensive ram. I would wager that 256 megs of 50gb bw ram will be at least 100$-150$ if not more when the ps3 launches .

Uhmmm like I'm speaking japanese or something today? I mean first legion now you, nobody seems to understand what I write.... ahggghhhh... Anyway, I said small pool of expensive stuff, vast pool of ultra cheap ram of less performance, akin to gamecube, but this time with useable ram instead of a-ram.

Again I don't know what tech/cost hurdles such a thing would bring, that's why I'm asking, but if none or little exist, it'd be an adequate solution for providing both high-bandwith and high amounts of ram.