new (?) Rambus XDR memory and PlayStation 3 information

Hah! From "Rambus Developer Forum(RDF) Japan 2004"!:
http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2004/0709/kaigai101.htm

Summary:

1) The schedule of Toshiba, Samsung and Elpidia for production of XDR DRAM has been adjusted to be later, as the main customer - Sony's PS3 is scheduled for a 2006 release instead of 2005, as was projected last year.

2) All 3 manufacturers are no longer aiming for 512Mbit chips, but 256Mbit instead. PS3 memory will be composed of 256Mbit techology. Reason quoted "to reduce cost and requested by customers".

3) The article discusses that last year, when PS3 memory was thought to be made of 512Mbit chips, estimates point to 4 mem chips @ 256MB @ 25GB/s. However, the new announcement of moving to 256Mbit may result in some possibilities - 8 mem chips @ 512MB @ 51GB/s.

4) Even a talk about PS3 - the biggest customer. Talk of how fast memory is vital for next-generation console, how a multi-core architecture can be easily bottlenecked by inefficient memory design.
 
passerby said:
3) The article discusses that last year, when PS3 memory was thought to be made of 512Mbit chips, estimates point to 4 mem chips @ 256MB @ 25GB/s. However, the new announcement of moving to 256Mbit may result in some possibilities - 8 mem chips @ 512MB @ 51GB/s.
Umh..8 chips?? My bets are on 4 256 Mbit/s modules, 25.6 GigaBytes/s.
As a developer I can live with a 128 megabytes external memory console.. :)

ciao,
Marco
 
Didn't notice the news about the use of 128MB in PS3 was already posted. Other thread deleted.
 
Well, I don't know about you people, but I don't speak Japanese. :) What's that pcwatch article saying? I tried to find the 128MB reference, but it was hopeless.

Anyway, there's no way it'll be only 128MB. Who knows about bandwidth, but capacity is sure to be considerably higher.
 
I agree. Considering that some PC games require 1GB of memory, I would think that next-generation consoles should at least use 512MB.
 
can't wait!!!!!!!!111 aaaargh


Is RAM for consoles on par with PC prices? cheaper ?
 
Considering this is rambus and top end stuff, probably far more expensive.

BTW, does the console really need so much bandwidth if it's going to have seperate pools of ram? I don't see the need for 50GB of main memory bandwidth unless it's also feeding graphics.
 
AFAIK, the slide showing the progression of bandwith needs has been modified from it's previous versions.
 
- Directing to the board during 2005, the DRAM vendor runs

The next generation PlayStation (PlayStation 3? ) The memory XDR DRAM which is adopted (Yellowstone: イエロストー&#12531 the road map, this week is held in Tokyo, with "Rambus Developer Forum (RDF) Japan 2004" it became clear.


The engineering sample of XDR DRAM of Samsung
As for the latest important update 2 points below. (1) there is no big modification in the schedule of XDR DRAM which is required on DRAM vendor side, there is no big modification in the schedule = PlayStation 3. (2) specification of memory which is loaded onto PlayStation 3 was modified, was not the 512Mbit tip/chip and it became the 256Mbit tip/chip.

The largest customer of XDR DRAM, the SONY computer entertainment (SCEI) PlayStation 3 as for being is open secret. Powerful application for the time being sees in other things and from the fact that it does not hit, the start-up of XDR DRAM is presumed that PlayStation 3 bears. In other words, it links the schedule and specification of XDR DRAM, closely with the schedule and specification of PlayStation 3.

(1) XDR DRAM schedule is almost the sort of RDF of last year. Toshiba which takes charge of the development/the production of XDR DRAM, 3 corporations of エルピーダメモリ and Samsung Electronics being even, start the production of XDR DRAM in the board during 2005. This has meant the fact that start of the production of PlayStation 3 is set to the board during 2005. In other words, PlayStation 3 during 2005, how being slow, is that the possibility of appearing to 2006 first half is high. Schedule of DRAM side from the almost same thing, as for the schedule of PlayStation 3, from last year largely it is presumed that it is not modified.

Actually, as for a certain industry authorized personnel "as for the schedule of present XDR DRAM, you say that the timing which very limit is in time in schedule of the largest customer" is. In addition, another industry authorized personnel "is not the case that 3 corporations have kept pace separately. It does not become the same timing you do not obtain as a result ", whether or not" it is in time to the schedule which destination requires, you think that with, use ratio of the XDR DRAM memory 3 is decided. Because of that, you must defend desperately schedule, ", you said.

By the way, presently, as for the Cell processor which is the heart of PlayStation 3, already completing the design, it has become clear for the sample to have come out. In the Cell processor itself, interface of XDR DRAM memory is seen that it is built in. Toshiba and Samsung have already produced the first silicon which has been designed with 512Mbit, using that, it is presumed that the operation verification of Cell is done. With this, it is the case that the trend of the inside two of the principal components of PlayStation 3 has become clear.


The latent market of XDR DRAM due to Toshiba The Toshiba with RDF of last year latency market estimate


- Is loaded onto PlayStation 3 the memory chip which in modification

With schedule it is XDR DRAM which is not modification, but in product plan there was big modification. That is capacity of memory chip.

At stage of last year, as for XDR DRAM it was the schedule which it mass-produces starts from the 512Mbit tip/chip. You started also 3 corporations, first with 512Mbit, as for the 256Mbit tip/chip the cutdown edition from 512Mbit (as for the design of the basis it is same) you had come to the point of throwing with following. However, presently, also 3 corporations it has changed to the policy of starting production from the 256Mbit tip/chip. For example, a certain vendor cancels the design of the 512Mbit tip/chip which was developed, has done again to design 256Mbit to main.


Samsung XDR DRAM road map The Toshiba XDR DRAM road map The Toshiba with RDF of last year road map


This meaning simply one. The memory chip which is adopted for PlayStation 3, from 512Mbit is dense to 256Mbit Toda who becomes modification. Actually, a certain industry authorized personnel "has heard that for cost reduction, request of the customer in 256Mbit became modification," that you say.

From 512Mbit the modification to 256Mbit not being limited to a simple story that the memory chip which is loaded onto PlayStation 3 changed. It suggests that it is important modification in the specification itself of PlayStation 3. As for the possibility of being thought two. (1) the memory quantity which is loaded onto PlayStation 3, from 256MB of expectation of beginning was reduced by half to 128MB. (2) the memory zone of PlayStation 3, was redoubled to approximately 51.2GB/sec from approximately 25.6GB/sec of expectation of beginning. The possibility of having this either modification is high.

In case of former it means to decrease the memory quantity for cost reduction and, in case latter it means to increase memory zone for efficiency request. In case latter, there is a possibility of having modification even on memory interface side of the Cell processor and the media engine of PlayStation 3.

- Directing to the board during 2005, the DRAM vendor runs

The next generation PlayStation (PlayStation 3? ) The memory XDR DRAM which is adopted (Yellowstone: イエロストー&#12531 the road map, this week is held in Tokyo, with "Rambus Developer Forum (RDF) Japan 2004" it became clear.


The engineering sample of XDR DRAM of Samsung
As for the latest important update 2 points below. (1) there is no big modification in the schedule of XDR DRAM which is required on DRAM vendor side, there is no big modification in the schedule = PlayStation 3. (2) specification of memory which is loaded onto PlayStation 3 was modified, was not the 512Mbit tip/chip and it became the 256Mbit tip/chip.

The largest customer of XDR DRAM, the SONY computer entertainment (SCEI) PlayStation 3 as for being is open secret. Powerful application for the time being sees in other things and from the fact that it does not hit, the start-up of XDR DRAM is presumed that PlayStation 3 bears. In other words, it links the schedule and specification of XDR DRAM, closely with the schedule and specification of PlayStation 3.

(1) XDR DRAM schedule is almost the sort of RDF of last year. Toshiba which takes charge of the development/the production of XDR DRAM, 3 corporations of エルピーダメモリ and Samsung Electronics being even, start the production of XDR DRAM in the board during 2005. This has meant the fact that start of the production of PlayStation 3 is set to the board during 2005. In other words, PlayStation 3 during 2005, how being slow, is that the possibility of appearing to 2006 first half is high. Schedule of DRAM side from the almost same thing, as for the schedule of PlayStation 3, from last year largely it is presumed that it is not modified.

Actually, as for a certain industry authorized personnel "as for the schedule of present XDR DRAM, you say that the timing which very limit is in time in schedule of the largest customer" is. In addition, another industry authorized personnel "is not the case that 3 corporations have kept pace separately. It does not become the same timing you do not obtain as a result ", whether or not" it is in time to the schedule which destination requires, you think that with, use ratio of the XDR DRAM memory 3 is decided. Because of that, you must defend desperately schedule, ", you said.

By the way, presently, as for the Cell processor which is the heart of PlayStation 3, already completing the design, it has become clear for the sample to have come out. In the Cell processor itself, interface of XDR DRAM memory is seen that it is built in. Toshiba and Samsung have already produced the first silicon which has been designed with 512Mbit, using that, it is presumed that the operation verification of Cell is done. With this, it is the case that the trend of the inside two of the principal components of PlayStation 3 has become clear.


The latent market of XDR DRAM due to Toshiba The Toshiba with RDF of last year latency market estimate


- Is loaded onto PlayStation 3 the memory chip which in modification

With schedule it is XDR DRAM which is not modification, but in product plan there was big modification. That is capacity of memory chip.

At stage of last year, as for XDR DRAM it was the schedule which it mass-produces starts from the 512Mbit tip/chip. You started also 3 corporations, first with 512Mbit, as for the 256Mbit tip/chip the cutdown edition from 512Mbit (as for the design of the basis it is same) you had come to the point of throwing with following. However, presently, also 3 corporations it has changed to the policy of starting production from the 256Mbit tip/chip. For example, a certain vendor cancels the design of the 512Mbit tip/chip which was developed, has done again to design 256Mbit to main.


Samsung XDR DRAM road map The Toshiba XDR DRAM road map The Toshiba with RDF of last year road map


This meaning simply one. The memory chip which is adopted for PlayStation 3, from 512Mbit is dense to 256Mbit Toda who becomes modification. Actually, a certain industry authorized personnel "has heard that for cost reduction, request of the customer in 256Mbit became modification," that you say.

From 512Mbit the modification to 256Mbit not being limited to a simple story that the memory chip which is loaded onto PlayStation 3 changed. It suggests that it is important modification in the specification itself of PlayStation 3. As for the possibility of being thought two. (1) the memory quantity which is loaded onto PlayStation 3, from 256MB of expectation of beginning was reduced by half to 128MB. (2) the memory zone of PlayStation 3, was redoubled to approximately 51.2GB/sec from approximately 25.6GB/sec of expectation of beginning. The possibility of having this either modification is high.

In case of former it means to decrease the memory quantity for cost reduction and, in case latter it means to increase memory zone for efficiency request. In case latter, there is a possibility of having modification even on memory interface side of the Cell processor and the media engine of PlayStation 3.
 
128 MB at 51.2 GB/s, it might seem crazy, but it would make sure the CELL chips are running at peak efficiency and if developers go crazy with very funky geometry and texture compression algorithms which are computationally heavvy, it might all work out.
 
Panajev2001a said:
128 MB at 51.2 GB/s, it might seem crazy, but it would make sure the CELL chips are running at peak efficiency and if developers go crazy with very funky geometry and texture compression algorithms which are computationally heavvy, it might all work out.

:LOL:

Panajev2001a: Always being the optimist in the worst of situations.
 
Paul said:
Panajev2001a said:
128 MB at 51.2 GB/s, it might seem crazy, but it would make sure the CELL chips are running at peak efficiency and if developers go crazy with very funky geometry and texture compression algorithms which are computationally heavvy, it might all work out.

:LOL:

Panajev2001a: Always being the optimist in the worst of situations.

Well, some people out there are still looking ( or were for a long time ) at a Q3 2005 PlayStation 3 release.

Now, we know who they ar eand they know it too :p.

What can I say, I am not too scared if a friends of mine ( who happens to be a quite good PlayStation 2 coder himself ) can find some positive news in that.

Of course we do not assume an e-DRAM less PlayStation 3 either.

But I do not want to add too much, it might ruin Vince's window of opportunity here by taking the rug under the feet of some "numerology" jokes he has :D.

In some scenarios 128 MB of RAM at 51.2 GB/s might work, in some others it might not.

What I am trying to do is to understand what those scenarios are and how feasible they sound technologically speaking.
 
128 MB at 51.2 GB/s, it might seem crazy, but it would make sure the CELL chips are running at peak efficiency and if developers go crazy with very funky geometry and texture compression algorithms which are computationally heavvy, it might all work out.

Panajev,

How are you getting 128 MB at 51.2 GB/s?

The chips are 256 mbit/chip at 3.2 gbit/pin/s with 16 pins, that means a 256x4 (128 MB total) config will clock in at 25.6 GB/s.

An 8 chip config, 256x8 (256 MB total) will clock in at 51.2 GB/s though. But it's going to be more expensive. Double the chip count, double the trace count.
 
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