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Deleted member 11852
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Possibly. I was leaping off orangpelupa's post asking for PS1 games on PS5 to render at 4K.
Render means render. When you're talking about mapping pixels that is inherently an issue related to upscaling.
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Render means render. When you're talking about mapping pixels that is inherently an issue related to upscaling.
Cynicalking
Regular
He also said 6k. So you took the 4k to literally mean exactly 3840x2160 pixels when he really wanted was higher res than whatever people where saying games were rendering at, supposedly pal resolution 576p. Also gave the example of the Series S to show what he expected. You just took everything in a whole other direction.
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Deleted member 11852
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I missed his reference to 6K, I took native 4K to mean native 4K because.. words. But chill OK, it was obviously a misunderstanding. I have not seen RetroArch running on Xbox. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
The retroarch photo I've posted was Xbox series s rendering xenogears ps1 at 4k
Look at how ridiculously sharp the 3d stuff are (e.g. The robots) and how the blocky the 2d stuff are (e.g. The robot texture, the characters, the ground textures)
Btw someone on reddit says that the PS5 actually runs the emulators on PS4 mode. So the low rendering resolution made sense.
Sony is performance limited.
The redditor unfortunately didn't cite a source.
Sony is performance limited.
The redditor unfortunately didn't cite a source.
More like Sony is software engineering limited...
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Deleted member 11852
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Out of curiosity, what the default core and filters for PS1 games on RetroArch? And do you know what they were for the captured shot? You can run the cores in RetoArch with minimal improvements to heaps of filters, shaders and other-post effects. I always run 8 and 16-bit systems with one of the CRT filters, and GameBoy with one of the white LCD filters. That make a huge difference, and they are covering up a lot of the otherwise 'ruggedness' of the base emulation.
Default for retroarch is no filter. Render at 1x resolution.
For the captured shot. I misremembered. I was using duckstation. No filter. With.... Can't remember the render resolution multiplier to reach 4k.
Btw for retroarch, you need to use beetle core instead of pcsx rearmed. As pcsx rearmed for Xbox Series still missing the render resolution multiplier.
As for crt filters, I don't like them for games with lots of 3d like xenogears. Due to no filter = sharp, detailed, and smooth (no jaggies) 3d models.
But for games with lots of 2d, yes I do like them. Due to 2d scaling looks really bad to my eyes.
Edit: missed a word : render, and incorrectly used scaling instead of resolution
Emulation can be both cpu and gpu heavy, in special the former. Smartshift could be at play perhaps, it does happen with mobile ryzen apu’s.
I don't believe if the emulators are running in PS5 mode, they got any performance issue. Unless there's a serious bug or something....
I mean, even my puny Xbox series s works fine rendering ps1 games at 4k.
One could try with a 3600x or possibly 3700x and see if the cpu gets hammered… Series S doesnt smartshift right?
The performance problems are definitely emulator software issues and not PS5.
Even if it smartshifted permanently to 100% CPU permanently there's easily enough gpu power left.
Look at this. How do you get from the internal rendering on the left hand side into the polygonal rendering on the right hand side via upscaling? How can an upscaling algorithm take one or two black pixels for a boot and turn that into a perfectly formed, perfectly proportioned, stable triangular foot? It can't. The game is clearly using the mesh data and rendering the points far more accurately than the 240p original framebuffer allows.
From the Wiki for Duckstation:
Rendering Enhancements
Internal Resolution Scale Enhances the resolution of rendered 3D polygons and lines, will only apply when using a Hardware Renderer (D3D11, Vulkan, ect), set the scale depending on the resolution of the screen the game is being played on.
Internal Resolution Scale Enhances the resolution of rendered 3D polygons and lines, will only apply when using a Hardware Renderer (D3D11, Vulkan, ect), set the scale depending on the resolution of the screen the game is being played on.
This parameter only affects 3D polygons and lines. How can that not be an internal render resolution, as per the name, and instead be some postprocessed upscaled target?
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Deleted member 11852
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Why are the white chalk lines against the grass so very soft and not sharper? Why are all polygonal edges not sharp but really soft?
Zoom in.
I'd love to see emulation for other platforms on these consoles (outside of retroarch ). I hope MS/ Sony /Nintendo focus on this next
Look at how great Sega saturn looks at 4k
Cynicalking
Regular
I think PSOne games have native PS5 mode, but PS2 games do not, they only run in BC mode. Check out elanalistadebits' video again, the info should be there.
Silent_Buddha
Legend
I just wanted to comment that if this was purely due to some kind of upscaling technique, NVidia's DLSS 2.x AI based upscaling wishes it was even 1/10th as a good as this is.
Quick, NV/AMD needs to get out there and hire whoever is creating all of these upscaling techniques because it's so much better than what their engineers are coming up with.
NOTE - there might be a bit of sarcasm in there.
On a more serious note, I'd love to see anyone be able to pull off some kind of upscaling algorithm that can scale up a 240p 3D rendered source frame into a 4k (or near 4k) final image and have it look as if it was rendered at 4k ... in realtime.
Any softness/blurriness that someone might see in some games is likely due to being internally rendered to X (higher than game's original) resolution then upscaled (or downscaled) from that rendered resolution to the final output resolution. Alternatively it could be due to some filter being used (AA, AF, texture smoothing, etc.)
Regards,
SB
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The chalk probably was 2d texture that got billinar scaled?
See the crowds near the top. They also changes from blocky sharp on the left to blurry on the right.
So some kind of scaling on 2d probably was used.
Btw, I'm curious, let's say all these ps1 games were upscaled instead of rendered at higher resolution.
What is the upscaling method?
As they not only managed to make 3d models way sharper and less jagged, it also becomes way more detailed.
Even the bleeding edge AI up sampler that took eoons to upscale just 1 frame cannot do that AFAIK
You're basing your whole counterpoint on a single outlier?? You're arguing that whatever it is that causes those lines to be blurry (likely texture upscaling instead of rendering res), that upscaling algorithm is also managing to reconstruct the high-def geometry of the pixel from the source pixels??
Why not challenge your theory by trying to explain the issue of the High Poly Detail in terms of your upscaling idea. Is it at all possible to get to the mesh detail of the 4K version from pixel upscaling? If not, clearly that's not what's happening, and any particulars of softness you are seeing in some cases has to be from something else.
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