New Mark Rein interview

[scooby_dooby]

FInally we're getting somewhere

 

[Nesh]

FInally we're getting somewhere

Ahm....You are serious? Or is that a joke?

 

[Laa-Yosh]

How is that not possible? If it is possible, how do we know, or have sufficient reason to believe, that it's not what happened? As long as there's more than one reason for a comment, isn't it presumptious to take the word of a Guerilla person as the word of Sony?

Think for a second - who payed for that CG trailer? The studios, willingly sacrificing a part of their precious budget, or the publisher, who happens to be Sony itself?

And before you answer, know this: high quality CGI costs thousands of dollars per second. The KZ and Motorstorm trailers are more than 2 minutes long.


(And yes I do have a very good idea about how much the KZ movie has cost, but no I can't tell.)

 

[Acert93]

Ahm....You are serious? Or is that a joke?

Not to go too far off tangent (is that possible?) I was curious if you were serious about this:

The physics is almost completely there already

While some were hyping realtime deformable terrain after GDC, it seems they are only using parallax occlusion mapping for the look and simulating the effect or ruts. Compared with the complexity and quality of the CGI against what I have seen in the game there is a significant gulf in regards to physics. The footage thus far has also lacked the density/amount of mud, dust, or car parts. Don't get me wrong, Motorstorm looks good (the inside vehicle view looks like a lot of fun and well designed), but it is below the E3 2005 footage on every level including physics.

 

[Nesh]

While some were hyping realtime deformable terrain after GDC, it seems they are only using parallax occlusion mapping for the look and simulating the effect or ruts. Compared with the complexity and quality of the CGI against what I have seen in the game there is a significant gulf in regards to physics. The footage thus far has also lacked the density/amount of mud, dust, or car parts. Don't get me wrong, Motorstorm looks good (the inside vehicle view looks like a lot of fun and well designed), but it is below the E3 2005 footage on every level including physics.

Since I am not a stabborn f***** of any sorts and I take other peoples observations into consideration and unlike others I dont want to believe what I want to believe I agree with you. I was refering though to the way cars handle and interact to each other though.

 

[patsu]

He uses the fact that everything is on video as a shield for making sure nothing had any hickups or issues when in fact we know this is false as Heavenly sword was rendered ~5fps and sped up to look realtime - lie

I'm impressed how well the PR work even after so many months.

If we take a step back and look at HS, MotorStorm and Resistance today. Would you say the trailers are indicative of the _gaming_ experiences (not solely visual fidelity) ? Are you not excited about how well HS and MotorStorm turn out so far ? And if XBox 360 is close in power to PS 3, then similar action will come to that platform too ?

*Assuming* that you like what you see today, how would you tell gamers about your vision a year ago ? And to impress upon them that all these are possible in real-time ? It's important that these trailers carry some sort of vector (i.e., have legs), common vision and weight to project a consistent PS3 vision.

You need to know that no matter what you say, there will be opposition. For instance, even today I remember there is a TeamXbox article posted here somewhere that insist that the latest MotorStorm trailer is "faked".

You also need to know that time was likely tight and people were probably overwhelmed (as always). I don't think Sony and the devs have much time at all to have a 360 degree review of the presentations and the implications of the trailers. As I recall, the KZ trailer was a rush job too.

Most importantly, you need to remember that the majority of the people are not as technical as the folks here. All the detailed discussions about level of AA, poly counts, etc. etc. ... do not matter one bit to many outside the fora. I for one, was impressed by the atmosphere of the war zone and how well they depicted it. I also like that flying thing, the flame thrower and the screams.

For that matter, if a marketing guy were to pay someone to do a target render or whatever, do you think he/she really wants them to include all the jaggies and simulate all the possible sharp edges ? Or would you prefer an eye-pleasing presentation with the rough edges smoothen out ? I don't think most people (say majority of the 100 million PS2 owners) will care how these trailers are made (5 fps speed up, or in-game engine) as long as they convey similar gaming experiences at the end of the day. So why should they target the message at us the picky minority who will always find something to say about the trailers, rather than the rest of the folks ?

To me, the trailers are just trailers. Not an evil scheme or some sort of conspiracies to fool all the gamers in the world. And in all goodness, I'm starting to realize may be they (at least some of them we have seen) do convey the PS3 vision.

As for individual interviews, I have already posted my opinion on them. But I left out Jack Tretton, the one whom I said made a real mistake/lie. I don't particularly like his piece (Too salesy !). Then I saw "...what's your sense ?" in the interviewer's question (Must be a junior guy ). He's giving him leeway to express his personal opinion. Then chaos ensue. Next time, send someone more experienced to deal with PR old-hand like him. Then we forum goers would be happier.

Oh and btw, I note that some people jokingly see this as a Sony trial. But in a real trial, the defendents need to be around. Where is xbdestroya ? He said he's going to arrange for some more interviews like the HS one

If you want to know what a lie is... try this:
The company I am interviewing for just had 3 VPs quit the company because they accuse the owner of the business as a blatant liar. I'm now listening to 4 versions of the story and am trying to decide what's going on. In the mean time, less wars, more friends. Afterall we share some common interests here.

 

[Laa-Yosh]

I kinda feel guilty for starting to derail this thread, because I wanted to remind everyone of the differences between the CG trailers and actual games. I believe that Motorstorm has failed to get close to the prerendered imagery and I thought it was skipped over, but my personal ideas shouldn't wreck an ongoing discussion... So I'm sorry about that, no more words about this issue from me.

As for the quality of the actual Killzone game, I do have some hopes knowing the work of a few aritsts they've recently hired. So, there's good reason to expect pretty nice looking characters and such. But they won't be able to do realtime raytraced GI nor CG quality AA and AF and such and so on - it will quite likely be on par with GOW, Heavenly Sword, MGS4, that Chow-yun Fat shooter and the like.

Really, the only big differences between these games' graphics are going to be the art style, with maybe the exception of MGS4 because of the borderline crazy attention to detail from Kojima and his team. But nothing will be radically different in terms of technology for a while...

 

[Nesh]

I ll tell you what. Sony are the Illuminatti trying to control our minds, MS's Gates is the antichrist and Nintendo's Myiamoto is in fact Peter Pan

 

[TheChefO]

I'm impressed how well the PR work even after so many months.

If we take a step back and look at HS, MotorStorm and Resistance today. Would you say the trailers are indicative of the _gaming_ experiences (not solely visual fidelity) ? Are you not excited about how well HS and MotorStorm turn out so far ? And if XBox 360 is close in power to PS 3, then similar action will come to that platform too ?

*Assuming* that you like what you see today, how would you tell gamers about your vision a year ago ? And to impress upon them that all these are possible in real-time ? It's important that these trailers carry some sort of vector (i.e., have legs), common vision and weight to project a consistent PS3 vision.

You need to know that no matter what you say, there will be opposition. For instance, even today I remember there is a TeamXbox article posted here somewhere that insist that the latest MotorStorm trailer is "faked".

You also need to know that time was likely tight and people were probably overwhelmed (as always). I don't think Sony and the devs have much time at all to have a 360 degree review of the presentations and the implications of the trailers. As I recall, the KZ trailer was a rush job too.

Most importantly, you need to remember that the majority of the people are not as technical as the folks here. All the detailed discussions about level of AA, poly counts, etc. etc. ... do not matter one bit to many outside the fora. I for one, was impressed by the atmosphere of the war zone and how well they depicted it. I also like that flying thing, the flame thrower and the screams.

For that matter, if a marketing guy were to pay someone to do a target render or whatever, do you think he/she really wants them to include all the jaggies and simulate all the possible sharp edges ? Or would you prefer an eye-pleasing presentation with the rough edges smoothen out ? I don't think most people (say majority of the 100 million PS2 owners) will care how these trailers are made (5 fps speed up, or in-game engine) as long as they convey similar gaming experiences at the end of the day. So why should they target the message at us the picky minority who will always find something to say about the trailers, rather than the rest of the folks ?

To me, the trailers are just trailers. Not an evil scheme or some sort of conspiracies to fool all the gamers in the world. And in all goodness, I'm starting to realize may be they (at least some of them we have seen) do convey the PS3 vision.

I started writing a detailed rebuttle to this and realized there is no purpose in responding. The site has a certain lean and certain members enforce this lean. I've said my piece on the subject and I'll leave it at that.

...I just had a revalation! I believe when people were asking is that gameplay the general response was "you'll be playing that" or "thats rendered to spec". In the sense that ps3 will play hd movies I guess they weren't lying afterall as the videos should be well within the bluray 1080p spec.


I apologize to all.

 

[MechanizedDeath]

Trying to analyze PR speak it an exercise in futility. It's intentionally ambiguous. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to dodge a question. If you try to infer meaning, then you have no one else but yourself to blame. That's the end of my brief stay in this thread. The first page was good, at least. PEACE.

 

[mckmas8808]

Trying to analyze PR speak it an exercise in futility. It's intentionally ambiguous. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to dodge a question. If you try to infer meaning, then you have no one else but yourself to blame. That's the end of my brief stay in this thread. The first page was good, at least. PEACE.

Yeah I admit to everyone that they tricked me with that PR dodge quote. They had me thinking that the KZ footage was real. I was basically tricked myself into believing something that was never said.

 

[scooby_dooby]

I was basically tricked myself into believing something that was never said.

lol...ya all your fault, we wouldn't want to place blame on the company that intentionally mislead you.

 

[mckmas8808]

lol...ya all your fault, we wouldn't want to place blame on the company that intentionally mislead you.

I should have known better. I didn't know much about videogame PR at the time. If he were to say that today I would have picked it up.

 

[TheChefO]

lol...ya all your fault, we wouldn't want to place blame on the company that intentionally mislead you.

Of course not!! Dude this isn't just some corporation were talkin bout here!
This is S. O. N. Y.
The one and only.

Think about that next time you go and try and hold them accountable!

 

[scooby_dooby]

I should have known better. I didn't know much about videogame PR at the time. If he were to say that today I would have picked it up.

Don't be too hard on yourself, 90% of the so-called VG journalists were also completely fooled.

 

[Nesh]

Well I know that despite the E3 trailers in 2005 we ll get real PS3 games that are amazing and pleasing enough. *shrugs*

Now can we PLEEASE stop trolling and acting like small children shouting "Sony is evil, Sony fooled us, PS3 is crap"? *sheesh*

 

[mckmas8808]

Of course not!! Dude this isn't just some corporation were talkin bout here!
This is S. O. N. Y.
The one and only.

Think about that next time you go and try and hold them accountable!

I hold people accoutable when they deserve it.

 

[scooby_dooby]

Well I know that despite the E3 trailers in 2005 we ll get real PS3 games that are amazing and pleasing enough. *shrugs*

Now can we PLEEASE stop trolling and acting like small children shouting "Sony is evil, Sony fooled us, PS3 is crap"? *sheesh*

Yes, lets continue to make up excuses for companies to lie to us, show faked gameplay, and rationalize why it's 'ok' because in 4 or 5 years they might actualy deliver on those claims.

btw: no-one said PS3 is crap, and no-one said Sony is evil, nice try though.

 

[mckmas8808]

Yes, lets continue to make up excuses for companies to lie to us, show faked gameplay, and rationalize why it's 'ok' because in 4 or 5 years they might actualy deliver on those claims..

To be honest scooby if they do hit that video in 2010, then it would be more than great. Who would really care if they faked the gameplay?

 

[Nesh]

Yes, lets continue to make up excuses for companies to lie to us, show faked gameplay, and rationalize why it's 'ok' because in 4 or 5 years they might actualy deliver on those claims.

btw: no-one said PS3 is crap, and no-one said Sony is evil, nice try though.

*sarcasm on*No! I insist. Sony is EVIL! They are fooling us all to steal our money! Thats EVIL! Nothing good PS3-related is actually real!
*sarcasm off*