I agree with Goldni. I'm very impressed with F-zero so far. I've played both quantum Redshift and Wipeout Fusion and I was just unimpressed by both. Any and all F-zero games that came out before spank them both pretty badly. F-zero GC looks to be no different. A while back on IGN I read a preview where the guy said that F-Z GC plays every bit as good as previous FZ games, just with GC quality graphics and that the game plays "like a dream on the GC controller". That's all I needed to hear. It's one of my most anticipated games this year.
New amazing F-Zero video on officail F-Zero website
- Thread starter Ooh-videogames
- Start date
Johnny Awesome said:
Even before you tried it, you judge it. Of course every single Nintendo game receives high marks on nostalgia reasons only.
On the contrary "Nintendo games aren't what they used to be!" is just the reverse effect of nostalagia.
Maybe we should leave nostalagia out when judging games, since it definitely affects our judgement.
However, I do agree that F-Zeros ships usually look like a lada niva on steroids.
I know the above sounds unusually harsh, but I'm starting to get a little sick of the Nintendo disappointments. Eternal Darkness and Starfox were great, but Mario Sunshine (camera/story problems) and to a lesser extent Metroid Prime (bad control) were disappointments. I'm enjoying playing Ocarina of Time for the first time though (pre-ordered Wind Walker).
This game better turn out, but I'm skeptical.
I have played Starfox for about 6 hrs than I stopped, this game is just not that what I had exspected. Granted it sports great graphics, it is its game design that was at least for me a major let down (maybe due to morphing Dinosaur Planet into Starfox).
Eternal Darkness, my favourite GCN game so far (no Metroid and Zelda in Europe)
SMS: come on, bad story? I guess not a single human being expects a story driven Mario. I don't know what issues have and had with the camera in Sunshine. I found it easily to controll and to steer from the beginning. But, I don't understand people complaining about SMS's difficulty either, so maybe I am just "born" for this game.
EDIT: major adjustments to my 1st paragraph.
Everybody's different, so you can't blame somebody for not liking the camera. Nothing has universal appeal. Personally, I see a few small issues with the camera and I can see why people bash it.. but I myself mastered it within the first hour or two and find it to be probably the best 3D platforming camera in years. Surely better than R&C's; definitely better than Sonic's.
Johnny Awesome
Veteran
Here's my thoughts on Nintendo right now: They're screwing up. Not in a major way, but it used to be that you could assume that Miyamoto's games would practically be perfect. Now we're seeing obvious flaws.
Look at the control scheme for Mario Sunshine. The fact that the water cannon is not mapped to the second stick is ridiculous. The fact that you can only fire in the same direction as you move while in motion is a serious play mechanic problem. Why did Miyamoto-san change the swimming controls? Why is the camera so poor? All of these things are big let downs. Where Mario 64 was the best in its class, Miyamoto has been outdone by Ratchet & Clank and Jak & Daxter in terms of control so far this generation. Who would have thought?
On the story: I realize that it didn't have to be great, but it was almost comical to read reviews criticising the story and camera in BLiNX, when these same flaws were overlooked in SMS. There's a good reason why SMS and Metroid have dropped off the January sales charts, even though games like Halo are still selling almost twice as much 15 months after release...
If you strip away the franchise power of Nintendo's recent titles, the games would not live up to expectations. The change to Celda is another example of recent foolishness. I'll still get it for the gameplay, but they literally ruined Link.
F-Zero should change ship designs, but Nintendo is too stubborn to do it. Thankfully the gameplay seems solid, but it's still disappointing that Nintendo is igoring the obvious problems with some of their titles and quality is slipping. Don't get me wrong, these are all 8.5/10 titles, but it used to be you could assume 9+/10 for key Nintendo franchises...
Since the third party exclusives are so few and far between on the Cube, and with the lack of sports, fighting, driving, and RPGs, Nintendo's titles really have to be TOP NOTCH 9/10 or more to drive hardware sales. The weakness in the Cube sales is a direct result of games like Mario and Metroid not living up to previous Nintendo standards. Nintendo better pull out KILLER Donkey Kong and Pokemon games at E3 this year, because they need some big guns if they're going to have any hope of competing.
Look at the control scheme for Mario Sunshine. The fact that the water cannon is not mapped to the second stick is ridiculous. The fact that you can only fire in the same direction as you move while in motion is a serious play mechanic problem. Why did Miyamoto-san change the swimming controls? Why is the camera so poor? All of these things are big let downs. Where Mario 64 was the best in its class, Miyamoto has been outdone by Ratchet & Clank and Jak & Daxter in terms of control so far this generation. Who would have thought?
On the story: I realize that it didn't have to be great, but it was almost comical to read reviews criticising the story and camera in BLiNX, when these same flaws were overlooked in SMS. There's a good reason why SMS and Metroid have dropped off the January sales charts, even though games like Halo are still selling almost twice as much 15 months after release...
If you strip away the franchise power of Nintendo's recent titles, the games would not live up to expectations. The change to Celda is another example of recent foolishness. I'll still get it for the gameplay, but they literally ruined Link.
F-Zero should change ship designs, but Nintendo is too stubborn to do it. Thankfully the gameplay seems solid, but it's still disappointing that Nintendo is igoring the obvious problems with some of their titles and quality is slipping. Don't get me wrong, these are all 8.5/10 titles, but it used to be you could assume 9+/10 for key Nintendo franchises...
Since the third party exclusives are so few and far between on the Cube, and with the lack of sports, fighting, driving, and RPGs, Nintendo's titles really have to be TOP NOTCH 9/10 or more to drive hardware sales. The weakness in the Cube sales is a direct result of games like Mario and Metroid not living up to previous Nintendo standards. Nintendo better pull out KILLER Donkey Kong and Pokemon games at E3 this year, because they need some big guns if they're going to have any hope of competing.
Never been a fan of the series, original was alright but X was just not much fun for me. With Sega doing this version I have much higher expectations and will hopefully be pleased, though I don't love the vehicle designs.
To go a little off topic, would anyone else love to see what Nintendo would do with a more realistic racing game?
To go a little off topic, would anyone else love to see what Nintendo would do with a more realistic racing game?
overclocked
Veteran
Can you "mech" with the ships, don´t know because never played the original?
Btw that video surely look awesome, just wonder if it´s from the TriForce or gamecube version?
Btw that video surely look awesome, just wonder if it´s from the TriForce or gamecube version?
BenSkywalker
Regular
Johnny-
Miyamoto didn't direct SMS, nor is he directing Zelda WW(just as he was absent from MM which blew). For this gen AFAIK Pikmin and Mario 128 are his only directed games we have heard anything about to date.
Why? I have been a big fan of the series since the SNES days, FZX was one of the best reasons to own a N64 IMO and I can't think of a single reason to change the ship designs. Should the surface of the DeathStar appear more organic because they have the polys? Should they round off a stealth fighter in a flight sim game because they can?
They do have the top selling fighting game this generation and it is exclusive to the Cube. Driving games they have FZero and MarioKart hitting this year, sports games they have only very recently had any slight problems(and even then, only with the weaker franchises). RPGs they are almost as weak as the XBox right now which is a problem to the 356 non FF RPGers in the US
MetroidPrime won GOTY from most gaming sites going up against GTA:VC, SplinterCell and BF 1942 amongst many other strong titles. Yes, there are those of us who have serious issues with the controls, but the fact is that the game is the second highest rated game on GR ever six slots above the best PS2 game to date and eight over Halo. Not only that but gamer feedback on the title overall has been exceptional. IMO MP wasn't even game of the year on the Cube, but pointing to MP as one of the reasons the Cube isn't doing well comes off as a bit whacky. SMS the case isn't quite as severe, it still is one of the top 100 games ever made, of which in total the Cube has six while the Box has four.
Nintendo is making their share of mistakes to be sure, but so far the quality of their first party software lineup hasn't been an issue on critical terms, consumer or sales.
Darren-
It doesn't have any of those things, although the vastly improved texture filtering may give some people that impression(and I can easily see why it would). It does have improved framerate and significantly less edge and texture aliasing. WW has very poor visuals on every level I can see no matter how much I look at the game(actually, the more I see it, the worse it looks so much so that I'm having trouble coming up with a good list of N64 games that look worse). The cel shading they are using is obscenely simple, the lighting model the poorest attempt I've seen this generation in any game on any system hands down. The animation system is disjointed(this is supposed to be an artistic theme, but it lacks consistancy), not a singular element in the game impresses me in any way whatsoever. I will be picking the game up at some point, for my wife and kids, but combine the visuals with the fact that this is the MM team(a true POS even in gameplay) and not Miyamoto and as of this point I have no intentions of even playing the game. I may change my mind, but as of this point in time I see more games coming then I have time for as it is and Celda isn't even on my list.
In terms of the artistic merit, everyone has their tastes and I don't want PowerPuffGirls with my Link fix. In terms of technology, WW is utterly humiliated by pretty much every PS2 game released to date.
Miyamoto didn't direct SMS, nor is he directing Zelda WW(just as he was absent from MM which blew). For this gen AFAIK Pikmin and Mario 128 are his only directed games we have heard anything about to date.
Why? I have been a big fan of the series since the SNES days, FZX was one of the best reasons to own a N64 IMO and I can't think of a single reason to change the ship designs. Should the surface of the DeathStar appear more organic because they have the polys? Should they round off a stealth fighter in a flight sim game because they can?
They do have the top selling fighting game this generation and it is exclusive to the Cube. Driving games they have FZero and MarioKart hitting this year, sports games they have only very recently had any slight problems(and even then, only with the weaker franchises). RPGs they are almost as weak as the XBox right now which is a problem to the 356 non FF RPGers in the US
MetroidPrime won GOTY from most gaming sites going up against GTA:VC, SplinterCell and BF 1942 amongst many other strong titles. Yes, there are those of us who have serious issues with the controls, but the fact is that the game is the second highest rated game on GR ever six slots above the best PS2 game to date and eight over Halo. Not only that but gamer feedback on the title overall has been exceptional. IMO MP wasn't even game of the year on the Cube, but pointing to MP as one of the reasons the Cube isn't doing well comes off as a bit whacky. SMS the case isn't quite as severe, it still is one of the top 100 games ever made, of which in total the Cube has six while the Box has four.
Nintendo is making their share of mistakes to be sure, but so far the quality of their first party software lineup hasn't been an issue on critical terms, consumer or sales.
Darren-
It doesn't have any of those things, although the vastly improved texture filtering may give some people that impression(and I can easily see why it would). It does have improved framerate and significantly less edge and texture aliasing. WW has very poor visuals on every level I can see no matter how much I look at the game(actually, the more I see it, the worse it looks so much so that I'm having trouble coming up with a good list of N64 games that look worse). The cel shading they are using is obscenely simple, the lighting model the poorest attempt I've seen this generation in any game on any system hands down. The animation system is disjointed(this is supposed to be an artistic theme, but it lacks consistancy), not a singular element in the game impresses me in any way whatsoever. I will be picking the game up at some point, for my wife and kids, but combine the visuals with the fact that this is the MM team(a true POS even in gameplay) and not Miyamoto and as of this point I have no intentions of even playing the game. I may change my mind, but as of this point in time I see more games coming then I have time for as it is and Celda isn't even on my list.
In terms of the artistic merit, everyone has their tastes and I don't want PowerPuffGirls with my Link fix. In terms of technology, WW is utterly humiliated by pretty much every PS2 game released to date.
Johnny: If you stripped away just the Mario franchise and made me play the 50+ hours of SMS I did.. I'd thank you for introducing me to a game I might've skipped over. The gameplay was fantastic, and very addicting.
As I said before, the camera isn't perfect but after a few hours I was very satisfied with it. This is me of course..
Oh, and the control is near-perfect IMO. How could you map th' FLUDD to the C-Stick.. it's the camera.. :?
It's just like the way you wish Metroid Prime had dual-analog.. geez..
As I said before, the camera isn't perfect but after a few hours I was very satisfied with it. This is me of course..
Oh, and the control is near-perfect IMO. How could you map th' FLUDD to the C-Stick.. it's the camera.. :?
It's just like the way you wish Metroid Prime had dual-analog.. geez..
Johnny Awesome
Veteran
Ben
If Metroid Prime was truly as great in the minds of the consumer as it is in the minds of reviewers, then it would still be moving Cube hardware. It isn't. Same goes for SMS.
There still seems to be an unwillingness to evolve beyond using simple control schemes, probably due to Nintendo's focus on the younger gamer, and it's hurting the playability of their titles. Maybe Miyamoto should get MORE involved, if what you're saying is true.
On the F-Zero ship designs - get with the times is what I say. Ugly is ugly. Fashions change. Sonic doesn't look 7 years old anymore either. Power Puff Link is a good example of what I'm talking about. Stupid decision, to be sure. Nintendo fanbois will defend it until their death, but the general public thinks it's horrible (including you and I it would seem).
If Metroid Prime was truly as great in the minds of the consumer as it is in the minds of reviewers, then it would still be moving Cube hardware. It isn't. Same goes for SMS.
There still seems to be an unwillingness to evolve beyond using simple control schemes, probably due to Nintendo's focus on the younger gamer, and it's hurting the playability of their titles. Maybe Miyamoto should get MORE involved, if what you're saying is true.
On the F-Zero ship designs - get with the times is what I say. Ugly is ugly. Fashions change. Sonic doesn't look 7 years old anymore either. Power Puff Link is a good example of what I'm talking about. Stupid decision, to be sure. Nintendo fanbois will defend it until their death, but the general public thinks it's horrible (including you and I it would seem).
BenSkywalker
Regular
Are you talking about January sales? Nintendo announced early last month that they would be giving away a free game if you waited until Feb to buy your Cube, I'm shocked they sold nearly as many units as they did. Mario has moved ~3Million software units already. If managing to outsell Halo on a global basis can't be considered incredibly good this gen, does GTA3 qualify at least?
I disagree with that. I'm replaying OoT(MQ anyway) right now and you constantly use seven buttons, one shy of what is possible on the PS2. If the game doesn't need complex control schemes then it is a waste to include them. Only if it impedes the game should it be a concern. Yes, in the case of MP it does impede the game for the more hardcore FPS players, not going to argue that, but overall I can't think of any other good examples in the last several years from Nin regarding reduced control complexity hurting a game.
Are you saying link should wear pants showing the crack of his ass? Maybe Cortana should get her lip pierced?
But you realize you are proposing the same thing, a radical departure of a given series visual representation to appeal to a new crowd.
CaptainHowdy
Regular
Johnny Awesome said:
yea, the general Public must really hate the new Zelda, somehow that POS managed to garner 250,000 preorders, before the official preorder date ever came about...terrible terrible idea....
CaptainHowdy
Regular
actually, it sold faster in Japan than OOT did, OOT sold greatly but over a long period of time..
there are plenty of reviews in, it has a 96% review average, its being VERy well recieved, and almost all the reviews talk about the new look, and how hideous they felt it looked in screenshots, and how much they love it in action, guess all these 30 year old reviewers are really just 8 year old Nintendo fanboys posing as reviewers...
and its laughable how poorly rated Dark Cloud 2 is in comparison.
there are plenty of reviews in, it has a 96% review average, its being VERy well recieved, and almost all the reviews talk about the new look, and how hideous they felt it looked in screenshots, and how much they love it in action, guess all these 30 year old reviewers are really just 8 year old Nintendo fanboys posing as reviewers...
and its laughable how poorly rated Dark Cloud 2 is in comparison.
WTF? Dark Cloud 2 has been getting scores of around 90% or more from all of the big publications. That's amazing for a Zelda clone, that the scores aren't far off from the real thing.
Dark Cloud 2 has two things over Celda- it looks a lot better graphically, and it is only 40 dollars. Sounds like a winner to me, even if it's not quite as good as Zelda.
You need to check your fanboyism a bit, I think, Captain Misfit or whatever your name is
Ozymandis said:
WTF? Dark Cloud 2 has been getting scores of around 90% or more from all of the big publications. That's amazing for a Zelda clone, that the scores aren't far off from the real thing.
Dark Cloud 2 has two things over Celda- it looks a lot better graphically, and it is only 40 dollars. Sounds like a winner to me, even if it's not quite as good as Zelda.
You need to check your fanboyism a bit, I think, Captain Misfit or whatever your name is
Mabye you should check your antinintendo thingy at the door pal . I don't care for the graphics of zelda. But so far its a great game. So great in fact that i carry a jap -english dictonary so i can actually play the game.
I preordered the english version just so i can play through it with my little cousin. For 50$ I get one of the greatest games of all time (far and above any FF) OoT and what you call Celda. Much better than 40% for a game that imho looks like crap. Now if you don't mind i must go back to playing Phantsy star on my gameboy ... such a great game.
Ben
Everyone has there own tastes as far as style goes but when your talking technically about WW I'm mistified over some of the things you've said. For instance when you say it'd be hard to find a list of N64 games that look worse then WW. Frankly that almost leaves me speechless!
I think I'll just leave this discussion alone for now. Because I think our estimations of the game (graphically) are SO far appart that any discussion would get us nowhere. I don't think we could possibly agree considering I think it looks beautiful and you think it looks like a very poor looking N64 game.
BTW do you have IGN insider access? If so have you seen the WW preview video I'm talking about?
Overall DC2 has a score of 88.1% and WW is at 96% overall. Both from 8 reviews, that's quite a difference!
Everyone has there own tastes as far as style goes but when your talking technically about WW I'm mistified over some of the things you've said. For instance when you say it'd be hard to find a list of N64 games that look worse then WW. Frankly that almost leaves me speechless!
I think I'll just leave this discussion alone for now. Because I think our estimations of the game (graphically) are SO far appart that any discussion would get us nowhere. I don't think we could possibly agree considering I think it looks beautiful and you think it looks like a very poor looking N64 game.
BTW do you have IGN insider access? If so have you seen the WW preview video I'm talking about?
Overall DC2 has a score of 88.1% and WW is at 96% overall. Both from 8 reviews, that's quite a difference!
JVD: Huh? :?
Everybody: Considering how bad Dark Cloud was, for DC2 to be even close to The Wind Waker in quality is amazing. It's in a different genre so you can't compare th' two, but everybody seems to love it. "Pure fun" is a common description of the game.
Level 5 did a great job on it, apparently. Aren't they working on DQ8, too?
Everybody: Considering how bad Dark Cloud was, for DC2 to be even close to The Wind Waker in quality is amazing. It's in a different genre so you can't compare th' two, but everybody seems to love it. "Pure fun" is a common description of the game.
Level 5 did a great job on it, apparently. Aren't they working on DQ8, too?
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