Lossless Scaling. Machine learning Frame Generation and upscaling on ANY GPU!

[Cyan]

My Friend Peppa Pig. The framerate and animations look much smoother but the game's framerate becomes 1/3 of 165fps when using Rivatuner to limit the framerate to 55fps. It means that the game runs 3 times slower, it's almost comical. Closing Rivatuner, the game runs at 165fps and using LS makes no difference at all.

It's like the engine of some games runs internally at the framerate of your display and the game can run easily at that framerate on your computer without FG, so enabling LS works in conjunction with Rivatuner and the game's speed becomes 1/3rd or the actual's game speed instead of 3X. Odd.

PAW Patrol Mighty Pups Save Adventure Bay. There is a big difference when using LS and running the game at 165fps vs 60fps or 55fps. Very noticeable.

These are some of the games which my nephews play on my computer.

@gamervivek the HDR toggle is enabled, right? Sorry for the silly question but I don't have a nVidia GPU.

 

[gamervivek]

Yeah, HDR is enabled. If I disable it with RTX HDR on, there are changes to the image but the gamma is shifted.

 

[Cyan]

2D games galore.

Tested F-Zero Maximum Velocity in a GBA emulator.

And Street Fighter 2 The World Warrior, F-Zero and Super Mario Kart on a SNES emulator.

The smoothness comparing 60fps to Lossless Scaling at 165fps is night and day. This is specially most noticeable when the camera rotates, and in regards to the overall feel of the game.

 

[Cyan]

watching via streaming the Georgia vs Portugal match today in the Euro Cup at 25fps and enabling LS made the experience better, it wasn't as jerky, very smooth. However at such low base framerate some artifacts appeared from time to time, specially during replays or when a camera followed laterally a player who was running fast. Other than that it was another good experience with the app.

As of currently I launch the app during Windows startup, along with Rivatuner -which I also launch at Windows startup-.

 

[GhostofWar]

watching via streaming the Georgia vs Portugal match today in the Euro Cup at 25fps and enabling LS made the experience better, it wasn't as jerky, very smooth. However at such low base framerate some artifacts appeared from time to time, specially during replays or when a camera followed laterally a player who was running fast. Other than that it was another good experience with the app.

As of currently I launch the app during Windows startup, along with Rivatuner -which I also launch at Windows startup-.

Going to try this this weekend with the motogp and u.s motocross, I like 60fps feeds but struggle to get them so pretty curious to see how this works on them.

 

[Cyan]

played a bit of Senua's Hellblade 2 (PC gamepass), with good graphics settings locked to 30fps to play in silence. I enabled LS x3 (with the Perfomance toggle enabled) and Hellblade 2 went from running at 30fps to running at 28fps (x3), so 84fps.

Thus I decided to lock the game at 28fps + LS x3 FG (Perfomance mode enabled too) and the experience is super smooth. There are a few artifacts in some fast movements, but they aren't distracting nor they are constant. Runs buttery smooth that way.

 

[WhiningKhan]

You got me hyped up so I bought the thing as well. The performance mode does work surprisingly well indeed (if you tolerate artefacts). But without performance mode, the input lag is excessive.

 

[Cyan]

You got me hyped up so I bought the thing as well. The performance mode does work surprisingly well indeed (if you tolerate artefacts). But without performance mode, the input lag is excessive.

good to know, I never ever used the default non performance mode so I didn't even notice a difference in input lag. Artifacts aren't that common either in Performance mode, in my experience, except when you enter 30fps base -or less than that- territory. I run like 99% of my games at 55fps, dropping to 40fps or 30fps in a few selected games.

Which games have you tried if that's not asking much?

 

[WhiningKhan]

Not many - the input lag observation was Arma3. It worked nicely otherwise.
I hoped frame generation to be good for Elite Dangerous on-foot action but absolutely not, much too jittery and inconsistent frame rate on RX580. Way better with builtin FSR scaling only.

 

[Cyan]

Starfield. A demanding game even at Low settings. XeSS Balanced enabled, Medium settings, managed to lock the game at 40fps and Performance mode, FG x 3. At 30 and 40 fps there are some artifacts. At 55fps base they mostly disappear. I didn't play the game much, in fact that was the first time I played this game.

Injustice 2. FG x 3, Performance mode. A super experience. The cinematics can drop to 30 something, 40 something fps and the added smoothness of LS helps those scenes a lot. The game itself is flawless at 165fps con LS FG.

Played both games on PC gamepass.

 

[Malo]

Having not looked at this at all, is this final frame generation? How does it perform quality-wise for HUD overlays?

 

[Cyan]

Having not looked at this at all, is this final frame generation? How does it perform quality-wise for HUD overlays?

what do you mean by final frame generation? The definitve FG app?

Regarding HUD overlays it depends on the game. There is some flickering in games like Cyberpunk 2077 -I don't have the game, I've seen that on videos-. I didn't notice any issues with the HUD of Starfield, but I didn't play the game much -I prefer other Bethesda games-.

There is this video showing Starfield running with Lossless Scaling enabled: (I see no apparent issues, by the look of it)

What I didn't do is running games at 4K "60fps" on my 4K TV. Might give it a try in a few days, dunno.

 

[Malo]

what do you mean by final frame generation? The definitve FG app?

I mean is this completely post-process, it's functioning on the final frame presented to display output, rather than a frame buffer prior to HUD overlays. Since this is a "hack" solution, I assume it's final frame buffer.

 

[Cyan]

I mean is this completely post-process, it's functioning on the final frame presented to display output, rather than a frame buffer prior to HUD overlays. Since this is a "hack" solution, I assume it's final frame buffer.

dunno tbh. Lossless Scaling Reddit says "Lossless Scaling can now generate two intermediate frames, effectively tripling the framerate". Wish there would be more info from the authors of the app on how it works exactly. The results it gives are usually good and solid, I am surprised. LSFG 1.1 didn't entirely convinced me, although I used it in quite a few games, but 2.1 makes you wonder why nobody came up with something like this.

https://www.reddit.com/r/losslessscaling/comments/1d9tfds

 

[WhiningKhan]

Obviously in the original mode, the frame presentation is delayed for generation and presentation of intermediate frames - hence the input lag increase in non-performance mode.

And based on artefacts of performance mode, it seems equally obvious that there the output is not delayed, but new frames are created based on difference between the latest frames.

 

[Cyan]

completed Injustice 2 with LS (x3 , Performance mode, locked 55fps with Rivatuner). This hack has a weird behaviour. When playing Injustice 2 in Windowed mode (you can use Alt + Enter) locked to 55fps and you hover to the window's close, minimize or maximize button the base framerate goes completely free and goes from a perfect 55 / 165fps, to something like 160 / 480 fps, until you move the mouse somewhere else. More of a curiosity than anything else.

Tbh I am out of things to say about this app. It's been pretty solid. Probably my best gaming app purchase to date along with the Dolby Atmos spatial sound plugin.

 

[GhostofWar]

So life happened and I havn't even had as much time for elden ring as I had expected. I spent about 30 hours in elden ring using ls frame gen, been a pretty good experience and I'm still counting this one as a win although when this game has a moment I think I notice the stutter/hitch more.

I tried it on the races over the weekend. I also tried the upscaling and while it may have been ok you have to start from window from what I could work out lower than your desktop res with the drawback being it was scaling the whole app. So in this case I had my firefox ui being upscaled and when I went full screen it didn't seem to be upscaling, I guess because the browser was scaling it to desktop res already. The framegen seemed better than my tv motion smoothing but that's not exactly a new tv.

I still havn't got around to trying more myself, but when checking out a channel I normally watch when trying to build a cheap 2nd hand pc for family I saw he had a video looking at lossless. So i'll link that here in the absence of me having anything to report.

edit: As an aussie I just want to point out he's the only person i've heard say xess like that lol, it's not an oz slang thing at all if he said x game is running in xess people will be thinking he's talking about the band.

 

[Cyan]

So life happened and I havn't even had as much time for elden ring as I had expected. I spent about 30 hours in elden ring using ls frame gen, been a pretty good experience and I'm still counting this one as a win although when this game has a moment I think I notice the stutter/hitch more.

I tried it on the races over the weekend. I also tried the upscaling and while it may have been ok you have to start from window from what I could work out lower than your desktop res with the drawback being it was scaling the whole app. So in this case I had my firefox ui being upscaled and when I went full screen it didn't seem to be upscaling, I guess because the browser was scaling it to desktop res already. The framegen seemed better than my tv motion smoothing but that's not exactly a new tv.

I still havn't got around to trying more myself, but when checking out a channel I normally watch when trying to build a cheap 2nd hand pc for family I saw he had a video looking at lossless. So i'll link that here in the absence of me having anything to report.

edit: As an aussie I just want to point out he's the only person i've heard say xess like that lol, it's not an oz slang thing at all if he said x game is running in xess people will be thinking he's talking about the band.

this guy looks familiar. Alas he didn't lock the framerate, which would be the preferred option nor he explained other details like you need windowed or borderless windowed mode for it to work, nor he tested the app with more games or with FG.

Regarding other videos, I like this one, which goes to the absolute extreme, running super demanding games on a GTX 1050Ti 4GB at decent framerates, but it shows how this can work even on the more demanding games. The artifacts in games like Cyberpunk 2077 on such a computer are noticeable though.

My personal experience is more consistent with the results of this video, except the differences in framerate, where I normally play games at 55fps (also 41 or 30fps in a few games) and also I get less artifacts 'cos of the higher framerate. In fact, artifacts aren't that common for me when playing at 55fps and Performance mode.

 

[Cyan]

the most complete and instructing videos I've seen about LS. He compares LS to AMD FMF -Fluid Motion Frames, which allows you to have FG in any game via driver, something that sounds like a dream....- but FMF doesn't work as good as LS. And in fact when you move the mouse around, FMF stops generating frames.

He also compares LS with FSR3 FG and LS comes out on top. He slowed down the video to show the difference betweeen native 60fps vs FSR3 FG vs LS FG, showing the difference in motion smoothness between them.... a very thorough work.

There is also an instance where LS works better than DLSS FG, which I didn't expect tbh, nor I cared about since I always expect DLSS to be superior.

An amazing video nonetheless, totally recommended.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

DF investigation