NBA2K6 Screens - holy crap!
- Thread starter scooby_dooby
- Start date
How on earth is the game playable with those angles as seen in the video???
That would need more than some innovation in control interface to work, you can't see the court and co-players enough in any of those sequences to be able to judge passes etc.
Is that video really gameplay? If so I think in pursuit of making things look good (ie. using close up cams and interesting angles) the devs have forgotten the gameplay.
And please, don't tell me I should not judge before I've played the game, because there's no way a team sports game could have good gameplay using those angles, unless it's a Shenmue type "Quick Time" control system
That would need more than some innovation in control interface to work, you can't see the court and co-players enough in any of those sequences to be able to judge passes etc.
Is that video really gameplay? If so I think in pursuit of making things look good (ie. using close up cams and interesting angles) the devs have forgotten the gameplay.
And please, don't tell me I should not judge before I've played the game, because there's no way a team sports game could have good gameplay using those angles, unless it's a Shenmue type "Quick Time" control system
Presumably these are replay shots, like GT3's very nice yet unplayable camera positions.
rabidrabbit said:How on earth is the game playable with those angles as seen in the video???
That would need more than some innovation in control interface to work, you can't see the court and co-players enough in any of those sequences to be able to judge passes etc.
Is that video really gameplay? If so I think in pursuit of making things look good (ie. using close up cams and interesting angles) the devs have forgotten the gameplay.
And please, don't tell me I should not judge before I've played the game, because there's no way a team sports game could have good gameplay using those angles, unless it's a Shenmue type "Quick Time" control system
I don't remember seeing you make your points in the many PS3 video threads. Trolling has become quite an art around.
chroniceyestrain
Newcomer
rabidrabbit said:
I know, you would think they would have multiple camera angles to choose from in basketball games these days.
So has the art of throwing trolling accusations around. I don't know when was the last time i read a thread without someone calling someone-else a troll. How does such bickering add to the conversation? If he's a troll, he's a troll. No need to broadcast it to the world, as those of like mind will see as much for themselves.fireshot said:
Hehfireshot said:
What PS3 videos, there hasn't been that many PS3 videos that were claimed to be from gameplay to make points of. I haven't even posted in that many PS3 graphics discussions, as there has been so little to discuss of! Critisizing th exbox360 shots is more "now", that's why I'm mainly postingmy doubts in the xbox360 threads.Of course I could just say "Oooh Wow! They look AWESOME!!!! xbox360 ROXXX!!" whenever I see a xbox360 game, but I think that would make me look stupid and an xbox funboi, don't you think?
I think if an image of a game is shown here in the boards, I can contribute more to the thread by pointing out some faults and critisism I find, rather than just act overly enthusiastic along those "OOOh"s "aaahh"s and "AWESOME!!!!"s
The recent showings of games for xb360 have shown a visible improvement in quality over those shown in E3, for example Gotham looks simply gorgeous, PDZ looks so much better than before, and actually now it can safely be said it's a next gen game while before it looked like a mediocre this gen PC game. Gears Of War looks good (it could move better but...)
I'm not doubting the game would look much like what 's been seen in the shots, but I do doubt they are from gameplay, but from replay. What's so "trolling" about doubting that.
The NBA2K6 will definitely imo look like the shots, in replay or in virtually unplayable play angle options.In real gameplay screens, it'll look as boring as any basketball game, you won't be seeing much of the fine detail that's in these screens as the camera will be further away.
That doesn't make the game any more or less technically impressive, it's just the limitation of gamepay, like in racing games, the replays look so much better than the more boring gameplay where you see mainly the rears of other cars, and some scenery that's going past too fast for you to really appreciate the graphics.
To offer more critisism, I really don't find much to go "AAAHH!! this looks better than anything!!" in these NBA2K6 shots and videos, other than some nice glittering sweat effect, and cloth physics...the models are ok, nothing really amazing, but good enough, they're what is to be at least expected of next gen game... but then again, it is a basketball game, what more could they do.
Or maybe it's just me, that I don't find sports games that interesting and thus visually boring in general.
Since the first trolls invaded, paranoia has result in a troll-hunt of near Salem-like qualities. Any accusation of giving birth to two headed arguments or typing a criticism with your left hand instead of your right, and it 'TROLL! Burn them at the stake!'rabidrabbit said:
Which is contrary to forum rules...
<LI>Trolls and Troll Name Calling
What not to do: One of the worst thing to do, when you consider someone's post to a troll/disturbance to the forum, is to actually reply to this post and start calling out for troll.
Trolls are detrimental because they' add nothing but more noise to the forum. Calling others people posts trolls or "teh biased" will not negate those posts. Actually it will just add more noise to the thread, making it worse and subject to be locked/pruned.
That's why troll name calling is considered just as bad as trolling and treated as much.
Trolling or calling people troll can (and will after a warning) be sanctioned with a temporary ban or a permanent ban.
What to do: Just ignore the trolls, and point them out to the moderators with the Report Bad Post button.
Only where's the Troll-finder general, Vysez, with his Justic Stick?
Where's the proof these are ingame?
The devs say so? Would not be the first time the PR has mislead the public, get real.
The online article says so? Did they photograph it while they were playing, or did they post the pics that were approved and given to them by the said games marketing division?
Would not be the first time a mag or online publication showed pics saying they're "ingame" while in reality they were devkit, "prerendered" or plain concept shots.
If the devs marketing says they're "ingame" or "representing ingame", they publish it as they've been told or not publish at all. I'm not calling the mags and netsites liars, but that's just the way it works across the publication field, in real life. Cruel and a bit dishonest to the readers, but what can you do but judge for yourself.
I consider a replay footage to be closer to "prerendered using ingame assets" than to gameplay footage.
And I do believe these are replay footage, or some "front-end-game-engine-rendered-using in-game assets" footage, which would imo qualify as "prerendered" .
Especially if they're running on devkits, devkit shots are "prerendered using ingame assets", right? That's why they have always looked that much cleaner than actual game, right?
Or maybe I've just got it wrong again, I mean I'd call the MGS4 trailer also "prerendered using ingame assets" even if it were an actual scene from the final game and running on the game engine.
Have I understood the description of "prerendered" too loosely? Don't know, but these boards can make one confused
The devs say so? Would not be the first time the PR has mislead the public, get real.
The online article says so? Did they photograph it while they were playing, or did they post the pics that were approved and given to them by the said games marketing division?
Would not be the first time a mag or online publication showed pics saying they're "ingame" while in reality they were devkit, "prerendered" or plain concept shots.
If the devs marketing says they're "ingame" or "representing ingame", they publish it as they've been told or not publish at all. I'm not calling the mags and netsites liars, but that's just the way it works across the publication field, in real life. Cruel and a bit dishonest to the readers, but what can you do but judge for yourself.
I consider a replay footage to be closer to "prerendered using ingame assets" than to gameplay footage.
And I do believe these are replay footage, or some "front-end-game-engine-rendered-using in-game assets" footage, which would imo qualify as "prerendered" .
Especially if they're running on devkits, devkit shots are "prerendered using ingame assets", right? That's why they have always looked that much cleaner than actual game, right?
Or maybe I've just got it wrong again, I mean I'd call the MGS4 trailer also "prerendered using ingame assets" even if it were an actual scene from the final game and running on the game engine.
Have I understood the description of "prerendered" too loosely? Don't know, but these boards can make one confused
Last edited by a moderator:
mckmas8808
Legend
The actual video clip. And it looks to be in-game too so...
scooby_dooby
Legend
rabidrabbit said:Where's the proof these are ingame?
The devs say so? Would not be the first time the PR has mislead the public, get real.
The online article says so? Did they photograph it while they were playing, or did they post the pics that were approved and given to them by the said games marketing division?
Would not be the first time a mag or online publication showed pics saying they're "ingame" while in reality they were devkit, "prerendered" or plain concept shots.
If the devs marketing says they're "ingame" or "representing ingame", they publish it as they've been told or not publish at all. I'm not calling the mags and netsites liars, but that's just the way it works across the publication field, in real life. Cruel and a bit dishonest to the readers, but what can you do but judge for yourself.
I consider a replay footage to be closer to "prerendered using ingame assets" than to gameplay footage.
And I do believe these are replay footage, or some "front-end-game-engine-rendered-using in-game assets" footage, which would imo qualify as "prerendered" .
Especially if they're running on devkits, devkit shots are "prerendered using ingame assets", right? That's why they have always looked that much cleaner than actual game, right?
Or maybe I've just got it wrong again, I mean I'd call the MGS4 trailer also "prerendered using ingame assets" even if it were an actual scene from the final game and running on the game engine.
Have I understood the description of "prerendered" too loosely? Don't know, but these boards can make one confused
Watch the video and use common sense, NBA2K6 is obviously in-game footage, you can tell just be watching it. Probably a replay, but still in-game, i.e. not a cinematic trailer or CGI movie.
1. Prerendered is a clear reference to a rendering technique. Prerendered things are either footage or assets that have been generated before hand--not realtime.
pre- :: Earlier, before, prior to
render :: To convert (graphics) from a file into visual form
Prerendered footage is the product of generating footage, almost exclusively, with offline renderers and does NOT use the realtime ingame engine to produce the render. While one could plausibly prerender footage using the game engine; the contrast you present is one of quality. The gameplay/realtime engine will not produce better quality (not to mention the Devs and Media have clearly dubbed this gameplay, so the arguement you make is a wild "What if" not based on any facts whatsoever less the theme of negativity toward the 360).
Browsing back through your MGS4 posts it would seem you would indeed need to argue that that, too, was prerendered. Yet it is clear you consider it realtime, inengine.
I don't remember you calling that prerendered.
2. The proof that it is ingame?
You are changing the topic.
The answer to that question is not evidence for your stance.
Yet to humor the visitors--and to restate what has already been clearly said in this thread:
IGN
IGN
GameSpot
GameSpot specifically notes the "dynamic camera work" and the visual treats.
What is decisively clear is thus: They are not prerendered.
If you had even bothered to read the initial links or the replies by people in this thread you would not be making a false statement already corrected a half dozen times.
Since I do not see every single post, could you direct me to a post where you call MGS4 prerendered? Your arguements in those threads tended toward it is not only realtime but this is how the final game would look. I don't recall you calling it prerendered.
Devs have been using realtime inengine/ingame cut scenes since the N64 (due to the lack of memory). This is not a new technique, idea, concept, etc. Realtime vs. Prerendered.
Further, until stated otherwise by a source who has seen the game, the ONLY possible interpretation at this point is the one IGN and GameSpot have given: It is realtime using the Game Engine.
IGN goes as far as saying these are NOT cut scenes. What do they mean by that?
A.) It is gameplay (i.e. on the court action controlled by people) with funky angles
B.) It is gameplay (i.e. on the court action controlled by people) but with cinematic angles to show off the engine.
Either could be correct, although comments by IGN and GameSpot indicate it is A.
Further, there is a difference between using gameplay footage (i.e. people playing the game yet with cinematic angles; i.e. what PGR3, NBA Live, and possibly this have done) and a cutscene that uses the ingame assets BUT uses streamed animation and camera angles.
Neither are 100% depictions of gameplay; yet the former does indicate the rendering techniques, models, gamplay flow, and animations players will see WHILE PLAYING (but from different angles) while the later demonstrates the rendering techniques and models but does not indicate the flow of gameplay and animations players will see WHILE PLAYING.
I think it is pretty clear these "render" comments and camera comments are the biproduct of E3/MGS4 trailer.
While I agree that these angles WONT demonstrate the camera angles most (any?!) will play with; on the other hand calling it prerendered is a joke.
pre- :: Earlier, before, prior to
render :: To convert (graphics) from a file into visual form
Prerendered footage is the product of generating footage, almost exclusively, with offline renderers and does NOT use the realtime ingame engine to produce the render. While one could plausibly prerender footage using the game engine; the contrast you present is one of quality. The gameplay/realtime engine will not produce better quality (not to mention the Devs and Media have clearly dubbed this gameplay, so the arguement you make is a wild "What if" not based on any facts whatsoever less the theme of negativity toward the 360).
Browsing back through your MGS4 posts it would seem you would indeed need to argue that that, too, was prerendered. Yet it is clear you consider it realtime, inengine.
I don't remember you calling that prerendered.
2. The proof that it is ingame?
You are changing the topic.
The answer to that question is not evidence for your stance.
Yet to humor the visitors--and to restate what has already been clearly said in this thread:
IGN
IGN said:
IGN
The only "grey area" in what IGN has said is that the footage may be realtime ingame gameplay from "cinematic" angles for PR purposes. Yet even then IGN noted a new, not very playable, camera angles. Ditto GameSpot...IGN said:
GameSpot
GameSpot said:
GameSpot said:
GameSpot specifically notes the "dynamic camera work" and the visual treats.
What is decisively clear is thus: They are not prerendered.
If you had even bothered to read the initial links or the replies by people in this thread you would not be making a false statement already corrected a half dozen times.
You have no basis for this statement. It is an opinion you pulled out of thin air and does not match with what the development team, IGN, or GameSpot has stated.
If IGN, GameSpot, and VC are lieing then you could be wrong. But until otherwise it not only appears you are wrong but you are at dire ends with their claims.
That is not the definition of prerendered. And I may add that your posts on the MGS4 threads would not indicate such a view.
Since I do not see every single post, could you direct me to a post where you call MGS4 prerendered? Your arguements in those threads tended toward it is not only realtime but this is how the final game would look. I don't recall you calling it prerendered.
Not too loosely; completely inaccurately.
Devs have been using realtime inengine/ingame cut scenes since the N64 (due to the lack of memory). This is not a new technique, idea, concept, etc. Realtime vs. Prerendered.
Further, until stated otherwise by a source who has seen the game, the ONLY possible interpretation at this point is the one IGN and GameSpot have given: It is realtime using the Game Engine.
IGN goes as far as saying these are NOT cut scenes. What do they mean by that?
A.) It is gameplay (i.e. on the court action controlled by people) with funky angles
B.) It is gameplay (i.e. on the court action controlled by people) but with cinematic angles to show off the engine.
Either could be correct, although comments by IGN and GameSpot indicate it is A.
Further, there is a difference between using gameplay footage (i.e. people playing the game yet with cinematic angles; i.e. what PGR3, NBA Live, and possibly this have done) and a cutscene that uses the ingame assets BUT uses streamed animation and camera angles.
Neither are 100% depictions of gameplay; yet the former does indicate the rendering techniques, models, gamplay flow, and animations players will see WHILE PLAYING (but from different angles) while the later demonstrates the rendering techniques and models but does not indicate the flow of gameplay and animations players will see WHILE PLAYING.
I think it is pretty clear these "render" comments and camera comments are the biproduct of E3/MGS4 trailer.
While I agree that these angles WONT demonstrate the camera angles most (any?!) will play with; on the other hand calling it prerendered is a joke.
I type 120 words per minute. And when I am twittling my thumbs waiting for something to process on my PC or at lunch etc. Today is a sick day... first one in 3 yearsdukmahsik said:where do you find the time Acert93 to post huge posts like that?
So ala the grouchy posts. Not that the forum does not deserve it, but hey... I really wish Sonic and Vysez had not died. I hearby nominate L-B, the ever present poster, as a new mod.
He can start by banning me
Scoob said:
I guess you guys read the articles at IGN and GameSpot and watched the 720p video.Mckmass said:
Personally I hope they have some stuff in store next year in regards to animation. Transitions are weak IMO. That is a dead giveaway right there IMO.
Acert93 said:I type 120 words per minute. And when I am twittling my thumbs waiting for something to process on my PC or at lunch etc. Today is a sick day... first one in 3 years
So ala the grouchy posts. Not that the forum does not deserve it, but hey... I really wish Sonic and Vysez had not died. I hearby nominate L-B, the ever present poster, as a new mod.
He can start by banning me
I guess you guys read the articles at IGN and GameSpot and watched the 720p video.
Personally I hope they have some stuff in store next year in regards to animation. Transitions are weak IMO. That is a dead giveaway right there IMO.
i wonder what is your sugar level intake each day
Acert93 said:So ala the grouchy posts. Not that the forum does not deserve it, but hey... I really wish Sonic and Vysez had not died. I hearby nominate L-B, the ever present poster, as a new mod.
He can start by banning me
i'm not ever present!!!... err.. ok so i've been on here on and off for the last 8 hours and prob for the next 6 but I'm not "ever" present!!
I've been wondering where Sonic and Vysez have gone... Actually, where have all the admins gone?! Neeyik, Dave, no one's around these days!
Hold on, it was Dave again, messing around with the new board software, he probably clicked on "admin>all>ban>confirm>OK"...
Very low actually. Whole grains--a lot of home made breads and foods (the wife is an excellent cook)--and a lot of vegis and fruits.dukmahsik said:i wonder what is your sugar level intake each day
Being sick my sweat wife made me some nice homemade chicken noodle soup. She is by far the sweatest thing I get to sample... I wonder if that is what gives me all the energy! I best check my sugar levels!
Acert93 said:Very low actually. Whole grains--a lot of home made breads and foods (the wife is an excellent cook)--and a lot of vegis and fruits.
Being sick my sweat wife made me some nice homemade chicken noodle soup. She is by far the sweatest thing I get to sample... I wonder if that is what gives me all the energy! I best check my sugar levels!
wow i got crappy left overs for lunch today, gee thanks
Oh my gosh...Acert93 said:
Did you mean "sweet"?