NBA2K6 Screens - holy crap!

[Gollum]

I just don't get how the first thing on someones mind after seeing this can possibly be a complaint. Something is seriously wrong with some people. Of course its not RealityTM yet, but what do you expect?

For a launch next-gen title, clearly the jumps in resolution, geometric- and texture-detail as well as lighting, shading and animation are incrdible. This is a game after all, everything is running in real time. I dare suggest many animation studios would have problems producing something of this quality as an offline rendering. The fact that this is gonna be playable in real-time in the very near future is freakin' amazing IMO!

And that's coming from someone who doesn't even care about basketball. I only hope other sports franchises will be able to make similar leaps, several of them look like major dissapointments in comparison so far...

 

[Qroach]

Surely a screenshot at 720p isn't going to have players lying down and the court up the left hand side of the screen.

huh? what's with you?

 

[Platon]

At least now we can see that the xbox360 doesn't have problems with physics, at least with cloth simulation...

 

[wco81]

It looks fantastic. The jump in NBA games from PS1/N64 to PS2 NBA games got off to a very slow start. This time around the leaps alot bigger. I'm a happy baller

The only problem i have with the player models (and i'm being picky), is the amount of sweat in some of the pics, it just looks a bit over done in some places. Also the player jersey's aren't actually sitting on the models.

Looks great but NBA games have been bottom rung in gameplay, particularly reproducing the flow. Got to admit I never tried NBA2K because after trying Live a couple of times, I was disappointed with hoops games.

If they can do better with things like forcefield and more fluid animations, they will do these visuals some justice.

 

[Acert93]

Surely a screenshot at 720p isn't going to have players lying down and the court up the left hand side of the screen.

Maybe you can take snapshots and email them over Live! Or the devs, for a nice photo op--and considering these giants are 6'6" - 7'6"--decided to get a nice "shot" for PR reasons. The shot is not an action shot (looks more like a shot during a time out) so who knows.

I can't see anything indicating "in game" in those shots, or in that video.

Well, besides the big note on the IGN and Gamespot websites, someone has commented about a [USELESS] floor camera. My experience is sports games have a LOT of useless game angles that are unplayable. They may have just had guy moving the gamera while someone else played (like the recent PGR3 movies... someone was even changing the lighting in realtime on PGR3).

Obviously these are NOT game angles you would play with; but they do appear to be demonstrating how players move in the real game. i.e. it is not precanned animation. Your players will look like this, just fromt different angles.

I will agree this is not exactly the same experience you will have sitting back at a sideline or behind/infront basket perspective.

But the herky jerky animation transitions are a giveaway that this is ingame--with unplayable camera angles.

It's all some introductory front-end or replay footage at best.
It's as much "in game" as that Metal Gear Solid 4 trailer.

What button makes you twist a cigerette in your mouth again? Some of your motives are pretty clear. I agree that camera angle is useless as it does not represent how you will play, but comparing precanned animation with cinematic camera angles during a cut scene and using a "floor cam" of ingame play are totally different.

But hey, you have motives, which leads us to...

Besides, many of the shots are in 9:16 format, instead of 16:9 :smile: I'm sure they are prerendered using ingame assets.

I guess VC, IGN, and Gamespot are all lieing

I am surprised some of you would assume MGS4 was not pre-rendered (I never thought it was) yet you are willing to call out 3 sources and call this stuff pre-rendered even though the dev and mags are saying it is real. This is NOT like the E3 exchange:

Q: Is this realtime?
A: It is rendered to spec.
Q: But is this how the real game is going to look when I buy a PS3?
A: You will be playing this game on the PS3.

One is an evasive answer, the other is "this is the game running on real hardware". This is sad. We are finally seeing real games running on real hardware--for the first time on any of the next gen consoles--and you guys are holding your little grudges based on uninteractive media from E3.

Really, lets toss all degrees of objectivity out the window.

I'm not really sure about that (See Official Trailer 2 in http://www.gamespot.com/xbox360/spo...a2k6/media.html and it has a portion with score HUD that looks like real gameplay and it's not in 60fps)

Using streaming media to determine the frame rate Go read the acticle. If the final version is not 60fps we can crucify them. (Btw, a game can render at 60fps but the animation rate can be lower, like 24fps. Madden does this. You cannot judge the framerate of the game with the animation framerate.)

 

[Acert93]

At least now we can see that the xbox360 doesn't have problems with physics, at least with cloth simulation...

My P4 ran some of the cloth physics demos well.

The key on cloth is how detailed is it (100 points? 1,000 points?)? How complex is the model it is interacting with? Is it self intereacting? How many instances of this program are running? etc.

So the question is not if it can run it, but how well. From the looks of it, it can do a passable job. It may not be the best architecture for it, but it appears any limitations had appropriate short cuts--at least in this game. I would not be surprised if they dedicated 1 entire core cloth physics Or maybe even using the GPU some for it.

 

[one]

Using streaming media to determine the frame rate Go read the acticle. If the final version is not 60fps we can crucify them. (Btw, a game can render at 60fps but the animation rate can be lower, like 24fps. Madden does this. You cannot judge the framerate of the game with the animation framerate.)

Have you seen the video? Before and after the scene with score overlayed, you see smooth slow-motion movement without HUD which seems like an in-game replay scene or sped-up composition for the trailer. There's clear difference.

 

[Acert93]

Have you seen the video? Before and after the scene with score overlayed, you see smooth slow-motion movement without HUD which seems like an in-game replay scene or sped-up composition for the trailer. There's clear difference.

We didn't notice any specific frame rate issues in our look, and Thomas was quick to assure us that the game, complete with (or perhaps despite of) this detail, would be running at 60 frames per second at launch.

Using streaming media to determine the frame rate

You do realize that there can be hiccups in capturing footage and that other factors can influence the impression given by streaming media.

Favorable 1st hand impressions from Press + Dev confirmation > Crappy low quality video capture

I am not sure why you are ignoring GameSpots first hand testimony of the footage on a TV screen in favor of a low quality captures.

Not trusting a devs outlanding claims? I can understand that. But GameSpot is backing them up. So, what makes you think BOTH are lieing?

 

[wco81]

That developer's interview is interesting. Sounds like they're using multiple threads on multiple CPUs, says AI will be "faster" is the word I believe he used. So it sounds like VC is trying to get the most out of the XeCPU in their first X360 game.

It sounds like they have no plans to port to the PS3 or haven't started at least.

VC could be a proxy first-party developer who will take the X360 to the limit.

 

[one]

Not trusting a devs outlanding claims? I can understand that. But GameSpot is backing them up. So, what makes you think BOTH are lieing?

30fps is not exactly a problem, as there are several titles in development that are under 30fps now. I don't think Gamespot is backing it's in 60fps as GS just relays "it would be..." comment by the dev, let's see again when it launchs

 

[Uncle]

Xboxyde has the 1280x720 video:

http://www.xboxyde.com/news_2058_en.html

Amazing stuff.

 

[Acert93]

Xboxyde has the 1280x720 video:

http://www.xboxyde.com/news_2058_en.html

Amazing stuff.

The sweat looks really nice in motion. Shaq looks very nice.

It does seem the animations stick out in some areas. e.g. Shaq's thumb goes through the ball and there is a "snap" between animation transitions. They kind of "slide" at times, like they will approach the player with the ball and then suddenly slide into an animation going into a distinctly different direction.

On the other hand when they are in one continuous animation, like running or dunking, it looks great. The clothe really adds a lot to the believability of the motion.

A really solid first effort (if it plays good). Much better than I expected to see at launch, especially based on what I had seen on Live. I think back at E3 a lot of us (me included) were skeptical of a model as detailed as King James, speicifically with the clothe, would make it into a game, let alone a first gen game. It seemed almost pointless--like a tech demo that told us 0 about the finished game. It looks really over done at E3 and looked like a fabric stitched with "flubber" (=> Disney movie) because it bounced so much. They really tweaked and and then used it in a way it was not gimmiky. A lot of times this stuff is a gimmik--this adds to the feel a lot.

NBA2K6 is a real pleasant surprise. Hopefully 2K7 gets the same treatment on animations as the models/clothe did this year. If VC can do 1 significant thing every year + keep refining the gameplay then I would be VERY impressed. Difficult pace to keep, but so far it looks like they are up to the challenge.

 

[Acert93]

Well you actually mean is there a way to (in court) get the NFL for this. EA is NOT I repeat NOT at fault. The NFL are the ones and the only ones to blame here.

On-topic: I think the players look great. The basketball and rim needs looks of work though. Cloth physics, perfect.

Actually, the deal was reported in the spring--and then they AGGRESSIVELY attacked the report and demanded a retraction or they would sue.

From there, it has been speculated by some in the industry (not on boards) that there was a "bid" made available other parties. Of course EA won the "bid".

This is not too hard to accept when you remember this:

EA *also* locked up NCAA football.
EA *also* locked up the AFL.
EA *also* locked up ESPN.

I highly doubt EA was approached by both those parties in an open bid. It is really clear what transpired: Allowing VC to make college or AFL games could 1.) hurt Madden sales--the very thing they are protecting and 2.) they would keep VC "in the game" by allowing them to make football games, meaning when the Madden contract expires VC would be in a position to have a product to license. As it is, there is NO WAY VC can magically create a game in time for the contract expiration. In the long run, as EA will be the only real company in a position to make a product, the bids will be MUCH lower from other companies, resulting in EA getting better contracts with the NFL.

I could possibly agree "don't blame EA" if the facts pointed that way. But the shenanigans with the original deal and delay + EA aggresively closing ALL football formats to themselves clearly shows they are GUILTY.

EA has quite a few exclusves like the PGA, FIFA, Nascar (I think), etc...

NBA2K6 is the first "dose" of what real competition is like in the post-NFL sellout.

This level of competition between developers is GOOD for the consumer, and even BETTER for the NBA because it produces a number of high quality products that push eachother and appeal to different gamers tastes. Don't like Live? Play NBA2K6.

Kind of sad when the market gets so big that companies lose focus of the product and jump on the green. Yes, the industry has changed and it is big business now (not some guys making a game THEY like for fun)--but this is one of the ways the industry has changed in a bad way IMO.

These types of moves, and consolidation of developers/publishers, is an inevitable trend though. Which is sad IMO. More shovel ware, less innovation, even less competition.

 

[3roxor]

this game looks great too. (if this is the same stuff we can expect ingame that is..) I noticed that the court and the basket don't match the visuals of the players. At some shots they actually look pretty bad which is unfortunate.

 

[mckmas8808]

Nope I still have to blame the NFL. If it wasn't for them putting the bid up there wouldn't be any EA exclusive.

Kind of sad when the market gets so big that companies lose focus of the product and jump on the green. Yes, the industry has changed and it is big business now (not some guys making a game THEY like for fun)--but this is one of the ways the industry has changed in a bad way IMO

This I agree with. I hope EA brings that focus back to Madden in Madden 07 just like they did with Madden 2001.

 

[mckmas8808]

(I personally have never bounced the ball so hard that my jersey came off of my shoulders, but hey it looks cool)

You know that's what I've been thinking quietly. Why are they doing the bouncing jerseys?

 

[wco81]

Too much starch on the jerseys?

 

[Acert93]

You know that's what I've been thinking quietly. Why are they doing the bouncing jerseys?

I think the why is because "subtle" does not stand out and can be overlooked easily.

Take a racing game. If you do everything to scale it will seem VERY flat. I video taped traveling down the Snoqualmi Pass in Washington State--MASSIVE mountain pass--yet from a *fixed camera* angle it not only looked flat, but the sheer scope of everything around you seemed smaller than it really was when you were immersed in it. Solution? Just make everything bigger to scale and add contrast to proportions! Ditto Mt. Rainer. Just a massive mountain, and moving around it is impressive. But in a static picture or in a fixed camera angle you really lose the feel of how it looks in real life.

That is a very important part of cinemaography--trying to capture the essence of what you are capturing, even if you must exaggerate it.

This is why racing games (and flight sims IMO) look better when everything is not exactly to scale in the surrounding details. The games I have seen that are "absolute sims" really can be quite boring looking because everything looks flat!

Real clothing moves very subtly. Of course real clothing has the benefit of being compossed of hundreds of threads per square inch (you are talking thousands of threads intersecting the circumfrance), whereas I would be surprised if the entire jersey in those shots is composed of more than a couple hundred--so the subtle accuracy of reality is not possible.

So how do you make it stand out if you cannot sim it 100%? Well, exaggerate it! And in this case them seem to have done a nice job of making it "extreme" without being too annoying.

I agree it looks SILLY in a screenshot when the shirt is popping up and down with little movements, but on the other hand it does not look bad--and in motion it really adds to the sense of speed. It is a nice accent IMO.

It seems with both PGR3 and NBA2K6 that the titles need to be judged in motion. The effects they are employing seem to stand out wierd in a still but do seem to translate well in motion.

 

[heavenlyglory]

Fantastic stuff..the 360 is indeed a beastly piece of kit.

 

[Jon Brittan]

Can someone please explain to me why NFL2k has to be dead?
EA also own the rights to the FIFA brand and associated team and player names, that still hasn't stopped Pro Evo from existing though, has it? Pro Evo just doesn't get to use the team or player names.
So, why can't the same thing happen for NFL2k? How they fixed it for Pro Evo was simply to allow players to rename teams and players so they could change the names to suit themselves.
It's not exactly as if the NFL can sell the entire concept of American Football, just the names and image rights associated with their leagues.