Namco Bandai President Says Sony PS3 Spring Start `Impossible'

[supervegeta]

Says who?

Uncompressed audio is uncompressed so it is the most expansive format in term of bandwidth, Dolby hd and DTS hd are still compressed formats and even if the compression is loseless, by logic they need less bandwidth than an uncompressed audio stream.

The only reciever that I'm aware of that can do that is from Denon and they use their own proprietary digital connection.

The problem is not the receiver but the majors that block the dvd audio players so you cannot play dvd-audio through digital optical out at anything other that 2-channel downsampled.

I am able to play any dvd audio created by myself at full 5.1 uncompressed audio via s/pidif this is the most use i do of it, maybe i would have been more specific about this.

 

[one]

This HDMI 1.3. Why is it needed wit Blu-ray again?

It's not necessarily tied to Blu-ray. According to Kutaragi they want the next version of HDMI because it has the bandwidth to send 12/16bit HDR colors without data loss and artifacts such as the Mach bands.

 

[NANOTEC]

Uncompressed audio is uncompressed so it is the most expansive format in term of bandwidth, Dolby hd and DTS hd are still compressed formats and even if the compression is loseless, by logic they need less bandwidth than an uncompressed audio stream.

Please do some research and lets not talk about home made DVDs.

 

[London Geezer]

It's not necessarily tied to Blu-ray. According to Kutaragi they want the next version of HDMI because it has the bandwidth to send 12/16bit HDR colors without data loss and artifacts such as the Mach bands.

DVI has been stuck at 8-bit for a long time and no one ever complained about banding, unless it's due to the hardware attached to the cable itself, which is completely different...

HDMI 1.3 isn't needed on PS3 at all.

 

[supervegeta]

Please do some research and lets not talk about home made DVDs.

Wow, you are an idiot.

First off why can't i talk about dvds that i made with my own music ?

Second i really suggest to do a research by yourself about the bandwidth needed for an uncompressed signal versus the one needed for a compressed signal.

 

[one]

DVI has been stuck at 8-bit for a long time and no one ever complained about banding, unless it's due to the hardware attached to the cable itself, which is completely different...

HDMI 1.3 isn't needed on PS3 at all.

Until we can buy a TV with the new HDMI socket and 12/16bit panel/engine in 2007 no one knows how the HDR picture processed by PS3 really looks, so it's not needed in 2006.

Another interesting point in the new HDMI is the compatibility with UDI. This is huge if PS3 tries to replace some PC.

 

[Berak]

... Personally, I'm happy to hold onto to this as fact until SONY say otherwise. ...

And herein lies Sony's real goal. String them along as long as possible, deny any delay until it's already well past due and there will be enough people who still believed you, and who will then say "What the heck it's only a few more months till fall". Tthey will have saved a few more people from buying the XBOX360 and continue to wait for the PS3, which is all they can hope to do.

 

[Reznor007]

That's not true, i have a dvd audio player and a compatible receiver and i can play dvd audio disks featuring uncompressed multichannel audio via s/pidif without any problem.

You really aren't getting hires multichannel audio. SPDIF doesn't support multichannel PCM. It does support Dolby, DTS, and multichannel MPEG, but those are all compressed formats of course. The most SPDIF supports is 96KHz 24bit Stereo PCM, which is the only digital audio you will get from a DVD audio disc while using SPDIF.

There are a few ways to get digital multichannel DVD audio, and they are HDMI, Firewire(1394,Denon iLink, etc.), and some manufacturers have come up with a way to use 3 SPDIF cables at once(2 channels per cable), but that requires a special player and receiver.

 

[datoejama]

Every time I see one of these articles about Sony not making their stated Spring launch I always ask myself that if that is the case, then why would Sony purposely be seeking to mislead the industry and potential consumers about when such an eagerly anticipated product will be available? I mean if Sony knows that making a Spring launch is "impossible" then what would be their purpose or motivation for continuing to publicly stick to that time frame. Its seems that it would disappoint the fans and piss off Sony's investors. Not to mention screw developers who are dependant on the product launching at a certain time.

If these articles are true, does anyone have a theory as to why Sony would do this, I mean its not as if the game industry has never had a product delayed before, why would it be better to keep stating a spring launch when no one would fault you if you stated that the product is coming out in fall or whenever?

 

[supervegeta]

You really aren't getting hires multichannel audio. SPDIF doesn't support multichannel PCM. It does support Dolby, DTS, and multichannel MPEG, but those are all compressed formats of course. The most SPDIF supports is 96KHz 24bit Stereo PCM, which is the only digital audio you will get from a DVD audio disc while using SPDIF.

The Majors wont let you get a multichannel uncompressed audio from a dvd audio because you could record it with a perfect quality, it's not a tecnical limit as i can get around of it.

HDMI 1.2 can support up to 8-channel of uncompressed digital audio so it have more than enough bandwidth to support dtshd and dolbyhd but it still does not.

 

[Reznor007]

The Majors wont let you get a multichannel digital out from a dvd audio wharever digital output you use, but i can have a raw multichannel audio sent over s/pidif with the dvds that i made by myself.

OK...explain to me how this works seeing as there is not enough bandwidth for this to work. Also, what does the signal show up as on your receiver, seeing as no receivers have a MLP decoder unless they have firewire or HDMI.

 

[fearsomepirate]

Maybe this OT, but I don't see why the studios are getting so hot and bothered about being able to make a perfect copy. As I understand it, the vast majority of pirated music and video is transferred over the net via torrents, Kazaa, IRC, and what have you. This material is almost never ultimate super-ueber quality, what with the bandwidth necessary to download multiple a 4-9 GB movies in a short amount of time isn't available to most people. Do these studio execs honestly think that not being able to rip a perfect 1080p video file with sound quality going into the range where perceived improvement is pretty much a placebo effect will really stop anyone?

Also, if the high-quality is something that only exists in theory on a disc, and none of the devices that I own will actually play it, why should I care that my copy only plays at the quality my hardware is actually capable of?

 

[Ben-Nice]

It's is not launching in Spring. It has been confirmed by my insider Common Sense

 

[supervegeta]

OK...explain to me how this works seeing as there is not enough bandwidth for this to work. Also, what does the signal show up as on your receiver, seeing as no receivers have a MLP decoder unless they have firewire or HDMI.

It's a work i can do with my tascam receiver, it don't have any firewire or hdmi imput but it can get and record more than 2 channel over his digital optical input.

Now can you explaine to me why hdmi 1.1 feature 8 channels of uncompressed audio at a sample rate of 192kHz but no dtshd and dolbyhd given the fact that you have more than enough bandwidth to do it ?

I can't see this begin a limit for the ps3 sales at all , dolby digital and dts plus uncompressed audio are more than enough to enjoy games and movies, i think the only reason Sony is whaiting is to keep the cost of the ps3 down.

 

[Reznor007]

HDMI 1.1 doesn't have DTS and DolbyHD because it was finalized before those formats were. If you have a DVD player that supports those formats, it can convert them to multichannel PCM and send it over HDMI, so the receiver doesn't have to support those specific formats, just multichannel PCM. I think the PS3 HDMI holdout is a video related thing(or so I've read).

What model Tascam receiver do you have? And you still didn't answer the question of what format does the signal show up as on the receiver. Also, what player are you using that breaks the SPDIF spec to do that with?

 

[expletive]

Now can you explaine to me why hdmi 1.1 feature 8 channels of uncompressed audio at a sample rate of 192kHz but no dtshd and dolbyhd given the fact that you have more than enough bandwidth to do it ?

Why do you assume its a bandwidth limitation? An audio format not being part of the 'spec' is jsut that, it doesnt have anything to do with bandwidth. With any interface the receiver has to know what to do with the information it gets from the sender. Theres no way an HDMI 1.1 recevier would know what to do with DD HD or DTS HD, it would be a foreign format or signal (like trying to play an ogg file on an mp3 player that doesnt support it). HDMI 1.3 could simply mean that the both the receiver and transmitter of the signal ahve the proper hardware/codec/etc to support a given format on both sides of the chain, thats all.

 

[supervegeta]

What model Tascam receiver do you have? And you still didn't answer the question of what format does the signal show up as on the receiver. Also, what player are you using that breaks the SPDIF spec to do that with?

Your first question make no sense you don't have a format with a raw source , i don't want to derail this in an off topic discussion that have little to do with consoles, if you want to discuss this subject pm me.

 

[supervegeta]

Why do you assume its a bandwidth limitation? An audio format not being part of the 'spec' is jsut that, it doesnt have anything to do with bandwidth.

ha ha that's what i am saying from the beginning, it's not a technical limit, it's just a standard.

 

[Reznor007]

ha ha that's what i am saying from the beginning, it's not a technical limit, it's just a standard.

He was referring to HDMI, not SPDIF. HDMI has tons of bandwidth for lossless multichannel PCM, but SPDIF does not.

S/PDIF inadequate: HDMI in whatever flavor is the way to get high-definition players to spit out wideband soundtrack formats in digital form, Dolby said. That's because the bandwidths of the players' uncompressed-PCM formats, new lossless-compression formats and new lossy-compression formats exceed the capabilities of existing receivers' single-cable digital S/PDIF inputs, which max out at 1.5Mbps. The data rates of the new soundtrack formats can run as high as 27.6Mbps.

How's that? You are not getting hires multichannel audio over SPDIF. Most DVD-A's that I've seen are in the 4Mbit+ range, almost triple what SPDIF can do.

Not trying to be off topic...but what you are saying is impossible.

EDIT-my question about what format it shows up makes complete sense because even raw PCM will show up as "PCM Digital" or "PCM xxKHz" on nearly all receivers.

 

[expletive]

ha ha that's what i am saying from the beginning, it's not a technical limit, it's just a standard.

As reznor pointed out, i was referring specifically to your comments on HDMI 1.1 vs 1.3.

Earlier in the thread i stated my position on SPDIF, which is that it is bandwidth-deficient to support multichannel hi-res audio.