Microsoft leaks details on Xbox Next

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DaveBaumann said:
Actually that's not quite true NV2A has a lot of Z/W formats, which have never made it to the DX API, but I would imagine that this is still a soluble problem aslong as pixel perfect rendering isn't an issue.

When you say Z/W formats, are you talking buffering? We've had discussions along the lines one W-buffering being done via shaders.

However, we are talking about something that is still in design here.

Yes I was talking about buffering. I've given this some thought and I believe that anything above the level of the per pixel rendering, can be pretty easilly emulated.

IF the pixel shader on the XBox2 GPU can take destination Z/Color as an input, it's all moot, since it could emulate any Z/W / Blending logic functionality. However this is far from a given.
 
I just got confirmation that these "leaked" specs didn't actually happen. The people I know working on xbox2 never recieved these specs, and they also doubt the lack of a hardrive.
 
the GamesIndustry.Biz article was quite good. better than most of the other articles I've seen.

hmmm FOUR (or more) PowerPC processors. now that makes a whole lot more sense than THREE 64-Bit processors.

anyone think Microsoft is going for some custom POWER5 Multi Chip Module?
 
chapban. said:
Lack of had drive? That be also a rumor, BUT if true, and obviously important to online play, nothing stopping MS with a Live 2 Starter Kit, includes 60GB hard drive! Sell it cheap, make your money back with monthly subscriptions/downloads. ;)

Uhm your idea would KILL the online segment for XB2 (requiring an add-on). Think about the step backward you just took. Remember that the step forward was including everything needed for online play.
 
Uhm your idea would KILL the online segment for XB2 (requiring an add-on)

It wouldn't be a whole lot different than the Xbox Live kit consumers already have to buy to play Xbox games online. Prob be a price difference.
 
gurgi said:
Uhm your idea would KILL the online segment for XB2 (requiring an add-on)

It wouldn't be a whole lot different than the Xbox Live kit consumers already have to buy to play Xbox games online. Prob be a price difference.

But I don't need that kit now as far as I understood (the kit is just a headphone and a subscription, right?). Again, IF Live 2 required a HD for players to go online AND that HD was an add-on, MS would be taking a step back.
 
I cannot play online games (laggy LAN tunnels don't count) on my Xbox because I haven't purchased the kit. That my Xbox is already technically capable of being online without a headphone kit is irrelevant to most consumers because they don't know that. If they did, they would probably be more irritated by that fact than they would a kit that provides necessary hardware for online games. That irritation is the very reason I don't subscribe to Xbox Live.

A hdd Xbox live kit will be more expensive than an xbox live kit without a hdd.. and consumers will probably notice that more than anything. But it is still a kit consumers must purchase seperate from the console to play games online. And in that respect, the two wouldn't be much different.
 
"Hedgehog Boy" of Gamedreamz.com is claiming that XBox2 will have a hdd:
Whoa there. You're joking, right?

In case you're not, and in case you didn't know, Gamedreamz is owned by REIROM, and rumors column is headed by Hedgehog, two of the bigges BS-ers the internet has seen since it's inception.
 
At the very least I expect it to at least have the xbox 1 hardrive in the system. It has to be very cheap right now don't u think ?
 
jvd:

> At the very least I expect it to at least have the xbox 1 hardrive in the
> system. It has to be very cheap right now don't u think ?

No because small drives like that are not produced in large quantities. It's probably cheaper than putting a 160 gb drive in there but they're most likely paying a premium for each megabyte.
 
cybamerc said:
jvd:

> At the very least I expect it to at least have the xbox 1 hardrive in the
> system. It has to be very cheap right now don't u think ?

No because small drives like that are not produced in large quantities. It's probably cheaper than putting a 160 gb drive in there but they're most likely paying a premium for each megabyte.


well i dunno but considering there have been at least 10 million made already i would think it was being produced in large quantities .
 
They're not really being made anymore, though--at least not for PCs. (And I think there are some 20gig HD's that slip into Xboxen because of this sometimes too, ne?) Wherever Microsoft is getting them from, at this point they're pretty much being made just for Microsoft, which tends to point to it being a premium for them; there no competition, and the manufacturer could be using their capabilities to make better drives that will actually sell on the open market from the machinery dedicated to Xbox drives.

Not sure what deals they have worked up with who currently, but they'd be better off going for a higher-capacity drive (40gig or so) and work out the best long-term deal they can from those who are currently making and competing with those drives if they are indeed biting that bullet. The current size of their drive would be pretty small for ALL of next generation if they want to put it to more use than they do now anyway, and I'm not sure how successful a larger drive accessory would be if they are all still coming with a hard drive as standard.
 
I think the name of the Xbox 2 game will be add-ons, simply to generate revenue, and MS will spin this by saying they're doing their best to deliver VALUE to the consumer (launching at $249 or something).

- Memory cards (for the casual gamer that doesn't NEED the HD storage)
- Hard Drives (for the more hardcore that want the storage, media playback, etc) (edit: different sizes too!)
- Xbox 1 playback kit (which I still think may happen, maybe only if used in conjunction with the HD accessory)
- HD DVD playback kit
- Wireless controllers
- DVI/Component cables, etc
- ?Online pack?

This also plays well to EB and GameStop's irritating 'Bundle' practice whenever a new console ships. MS may even use this accessorizing to their advantage come holidays and throw things together in the box.

And ofcourse, all these accessories will generate revenue and keep MS from losing money on each console sold, since not every user needs and uber system, and the hardcore gamers are used to paying whatever it takes for the ultimate system.

edit: and ofcourse, developers can still code for the baseline system to not splinter their usebase too much.
 
zurich said:
- Memory cards (for the casual gamer that doesn't NEED the HD storage)
- Hard Drives (for the more hardcore that want the storage, media playback, etc) (edit: different sizes too!)
- Xbox 1 playback kit (which I still think may happen, maybe only if used in conjunction with the HD accessory)
- HD DVD playback kit
- Wireless controllers
- DVI/Component cables, etc
- ?Online pack?
What do you mean by HD DVD playback kit? Hard disk?
 
3dcgi said:
zurich said:
- Memory cards (for the casual gamer that doesn't NEED the HD storage)
- Hard Drives (for the more hardcore that want the storage, media playback, etc) (edit: different sizes too!)
- Xbox 1 playback kit (which I still think may happen, maybe only if used in conjunction with the HD accessory)
- HD DVD playback kit
- Wireless controllers
- DVI/Component cables, etc
- ?Online pack?
What do you mean by HD DVD playback kit? Hard disk?

He means High Definition DVD playback which MS is highly likely to use since they don't have to pay royalty fees on.
 
I think there's something affecting backwards compatibility and the HDD issue here that no one has mentioned: the controllers on Xbox2 may be entirely different.

The XBox copped a lot of flak on launch for the controllers... I'd be surprised if MS didn't try to modify them to make them more "friendly" to everyone (read: PS2 audience).

If this is the case then the system out of the box is unlikely to by backwards compatible. Selling a HD-Addon could be a great revenue raiser, and include a way to plug old controllers in (since most XBox1 games use the HDD).

Something else no one has mentioned which I'm curious about.. if you have XBox1 games, then your saved games are 99% of the time going to be on your hard disk. Why would you care if the Xbox2 has a hard disk, since they're no use to your existing games? End result: you keep your Xbox1, or buy a memory card to transfer the data.
 
PARANOiA said:
I think there's something affecting backwards compatibility and the HDD issue here that no one has mentioned: the controllers on Xbox2 may be entirely different.

The XBox copped a lot of flak on launch for the controllers... I'd be surprised if MS didn't try to modify them to make them more "friendly" to everyone (read: PS2 audience).

If this is the case then the system out of the box is unlikely to by backwards compatible. Selling a HD-Addon could be a great revenue raiser, and include a way to plug old controllers in (since most XBox1 games use the HDD).

Something else no one has mentioned which I'm curious about.. if you have XBox1 games, then your saved games are 99% of the time going to be on your hard disk. Why would you care if the Xbox2 has a hard disk, since they're no use to your existing games? End result: you keep your Xbox1, or buy a memory card to transfer the data.

I agree that the talk of no backward compatibility and no hard drive may stem from problems we may have never thought of and may in fact hamper their inclusion. Is it possible they changed the controllers? Possible, but I doubt for the reason you mention(re: friendlier to PS2 audience). IMHO they have already done just that by releasing the S Controller. Now, it's possible that they decided to abandon the USB technology behind the controllers. It's one of the biggest exploits used by hackers to load Linux and other software on the hard drive. It's possible MS has decided to plug all the holes that hackers exploited: USB, hard drive, DVD drive, CPU, BIOS, etc. On the other hand, by supporting backward compatibility consumers will come to expect that previous peripherals will also work(controllers, memory cards, AV packs, etc.) To make Xbox Next hack proof, the first thing they need to do is to keep USB flash drives from working on it. In effect, this means a clean slate for Xbox Next and hopefully in the end it will translate to a more profitable console.

Now another reason could be, and I think this would really be cool, no more controller ports but instead controllers are completely wireless. There's already been talk about a built-in wireless adapter. It wouldn't be much of a stretch if they extended that to controllers.

As for a hard drive add-on, I initially liked the idea because I'd rather have the option then no option at all. However, after reading the messages on TeamXbox.com's forums I'm starting to reconsider that. I think that maybe Microsoft already has a few good ideas on how to provide mass storage without necessarily using a costly and less secure PC hard drive. Think about it, Microsoft only provides 2gb of the total 8gb to games for caching. The rest of the 6gb is used for game saves, downloadable content and music. I suspect that an insanely high majority of the Xbox users are not using more than maybe 10%-20% of that space. In fact, on my own Xbox I'm only using about 1gb and that's because I copied 25 CDs or about 850mb. That's a lot of space that's not being used and lot of money lost by Microsoft. Also consider that Microsoft can't buy 8gb drives anymore and has resorted to 20gb and greater capacities. Funny thing is anything above 8gb is not being used, which is not only a big waste for Microsoft, but also for consumers. In fact, I would rather they use a more cost effective solution and pass the savings to the customer by making the console cheaper or use it on something more worthwhile like faster CPU, more memory, faster GPU, or etc.

As for transferring hard drive data from a Xbox1 to a Xbox2, I've seen many suggestions. The biggest one being that you can use WinXP as a way to backup the data and then restore it to the Xbox2. Or instead of using your own PC, use Xbox Live to backup the data. It's even been suggested that Microsoft might even allow either one of these methods as a replacement for local mass storage. I'm not sure I like that idea since I don't have broadband at home or an WinXP machine. Might be OK for those kind of users, but not me. Guess we will see huh?

Tommy McClain
 
Yeah, I suppose it would be beyond the realms of possibility to think Microsoft would just give in and open themselves up to useful Linux modification MORE... :p ;)
 
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