Metal Gear Solid 4 post:#1067
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MGO based on Quaz51's analysis: http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1152765&postcount=454
MGS4 is probably similar but you should wait for final analysis by the usual folks.
Hey man, c;mon, you have got time.You have got to play MGS3 patsu! I think its the best game story in the world ! I bloody almost cried at the end, and I have never done that before,(except for when I saw "love Story" in my college
Go buy it Patsu !!!
I'll get SingStar first (next week ! FINALLY)
Easy, don't buy or rent it.
Personally, MGS has always been about over the top plot and gameplay. MGS1, MG AC!D, MG Portable Ops all have very different mechanics. I think the graphics is great too
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MGO's new level with Snake looked gorgeous. Extremely impressive.
It's not frigging HAZE!!? Why mix them up!? MGO is 1024x768
Well that's bull. I'm looking forward to the philosophical and political depth so embedded in Kojima's writing. It's going to be one of the best stories of the decade.
Longest gameplay time (ignoring cutscenes) of any MGS game
Yes, I like the "even for PS3" bit the best
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Care to do a more in-depth explanation of what you see as philosofphical and political depth of his writings? Because what i'v always seen is far from having any depth, just a tiny bit to add a reason to hide and shoot guns in a half mixed contemporary/sci-fi and martial arts warfare hmm... such as a madman/villain who manages to acquire(aka kill and steal) powerfull weapon(s) in a attempt to control the world alone (*insert cheesy typical evil laugh*).
Another standard entertainment plot for action flics, and the way he presents it is reminiscent of quentin tarantino and alikes with lots of 'cool' slow mo and bluUur explosions kick ass martial art moves swords and guns, and of course babes, or at the very least, one for some platonic romance of sorts.
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game may not have the best lighting or textures, but it's the animation, particle effects, things happening on screen, the sureal design the blurs and SNAKE, that makes the game look awsome. the middle east level from the trailer depicts one of the most atmospherical and intense battlefield i ever seen. only killzone2 tops it at this stage.
I try to avoid all the hype and screenshots but still I come here and click this thread! What's wrong with me!
And talking about downplaying going on in here! This is the conculsion of snakes journey, all questions answered, 30 hours of gameplay, great animations, epic story... what else people need?!
I also heard someone saying this game has PS2 textures... I want your PS2!
Metal Gear Solid 2 picture.
Metal Gear Solid 4 picture.
What's wrong with me! And talking about downplaying going on in here! This is the conculsion of snakes journey, all questions answered, 30 hours of gameplay, great animations, epic story... what else people need?!
I also heard someone saying this game has PS2 textures... I want your PS2!
Metal Gear Solid 2 picture.
Metal Gear Solid 4 picture.
How is it not Philosophical? Apart from his philosophy and politics on the running of the US etc. there's a deep questioning of what playing a videogame actually means. Throughout MGS1 he breaks the "fourth wall", making you look for codes on your disc, or making you change your controller port. This is taken a step further in MGS2 when
Raiden is simply "playing a game"
To back up my point, Metal Gear Solid philosophy courses have been set up to study the games.
And it's nothing like Quentin Tarnetino who's flicks are generally vaporous. You're missing a whole lot of Metal Gear Solid if you have no idea what I'm talking about. Really MGS's storyline has way more philosophical depth than most films these days; eg. whipping The Matrix to a pulp. I either advise you to play all the games again, or just give up playing games for more than gameplay.
I mean really - if you think MGS is just all lights and flashes you must have not watched any of the cutscenes or listened/read any of the codecs. Embarrassing.
R'ok
it's quite a bit away from 576p. I expect MGS4 to be the same as MGO - and to be honest, in playing MGO - it really doesn't look sub-HD. It's clean, sharp and smooth. (Unlike Haze, which seemed a bit hazey)RenegadeRocks
Legend
Sorry, my friend , but MGS is purely rooted in philosophical undertones.You seem to have lost interest due to the long cutscenes, but if you had persisted, like me, you would have unearthed a story which tugs at your heart. Every character in the MGS universe has so many layers to his personality that whenever any two characters come face to face with each other, they cannot look into each others; eyes.There are always layers that the other one doesn't know.
Also, Snake is the most Human of all the protagonists out there in the Gaming world.Don't just watch the cutscenes , listen to them too.The relationship between Naked Snake and The Boss is most complex , yet most caring relationship i have ever seen. It reachred such a buildup that i could not get myself to
Kill
Also,, the relationship b/n Snake and Eva has such heavy undertones, that you can feel the uneasyness in Snake whenever Eva tries to seduce him.You are bothered as to why is he not giving in.When , finally, when they do
make love
None, my friend affect the "gameplay", but affect the player who controls Snake.
This is Beyond every other sh1t you see in games, where all we need is"Kill em All!"
Also, these undertones are understood better by mature audiences....
Play the games again doob. Watch the cutscenes, read the codecs, and read up on some Philosophy.
I'm a Philosophy graduate from the University of Nottingham and University of Melbourne, and after replaying the MGS games recently, the philosopohy and politics within the MGS games is very strong, very relevant, and very apparent.
Not everything need shove it in your face (The Matrix 2 and 3 shove Philosophy at you, and in a result are simply quoting dead Philosophers, rather than exapnding upon its own philosophical ideas) whereas Kojima really explores Philosophical and political questions, and at times spells them out explicitly.
You're wrong, and you're ruling out why MGS is one of the most popular series of all time, and why it's critically recieved so well. It is one of few games to have so much depth. I mean why do you think they have so many bloody codecs!? And what I mentioned are not just gameplay gimmiks, since there are explored in depth in the codecs - if only I had a transcript - but really I shouldn't need to, because you obviously haven't read them. The games are packed with so much discussion of politics and philosophy (there's even direct talk of philosophical texts) that it's obvious you know little of what you speak.
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You keep saying it has a huge depth, fine keep that opinion, i'v already stated mine, wich is the opposite, shallow and cheesy depth. (not that it doesn't have any.)
Just because there are many layers to each character(s) whom philosophicly try to correlate to contemporary events, doesn't mean they have quality, when it comes to the emotional side it attempts to pull, to me it failed, it is cheesy and im not trying and definitly don't care if you 2 or whoelse thinks otherwise and felted touched by so much 'emotional depthness' i guess im a very pragmatic person.
To better explain myself let me quote a short bit from this review stating the downsides of MGS2 from (and again i'v only played MGS1 and 2 i assumed 3 wasn't going to be any better so i skipped it).
I never mentioned i like games that shoved "in my face" challenges glued with the solution next to it, much the opposite.
Now i have to add that to me, i disliked both the emotional "soap opera" and the philosophical rambles, but the lenght of it didn't affect me, and neither did i skip them (the first time).
Just because the plot presents and moves allot around philosophical and political contents doesn't make them automaticly into high quality in those aspects.
Finally don't bother with more "you are wrong" replies and rush firing criticism of all sorts towards my opinion (a subjective thing!) it won't change my views regarding the previous MGS titles but maybe the upcomming, wich i doubt and if so it doesn't change the lack of depthness (ah wait, maybe i should say quality depthness) i think about the previous titles have.
Oh and philosophy graduate i know beyond3d isn't the most apropriate forum but for someone who claims such im curious why such person just spends his intelect on the console forums and never bothered to spend more time on 'Politics & Ethics of Technology' or 'Religion, Politics & Socioeconomic climate' subforums.
*Sorry that my opinion on regard to what we were discussing somewhat derailed the original thread purpose, but i felt i needed to clear things up without resourcing to flaming taunts
Just because there are many layers to each character(s) whom philosophicly try to correlate to contemporary events, doesn't mean they have quality, when it comes to the emotional side it attempts to pull, to me it failed, it is cheesy and im not trying and definitly don't care if you 2 or whoelse thinks otherwise and felted touched by so much 'emotional depthness' i guess im a very pragmatic person.
To better explain myself let me quote a short bit from this review stating the downsides of MGS2 from (and again i'v only played MGS1 and 2 i assumed 3 wasn't going to be any better so i skipped it).
I never mentioned i like games that shoved "in my face" challenges glued with the solution next to it, much the opposite.
Now i have to add that to me, i disliked both the emotional "soap opera" and the philosophical rambles, but the lenght of it didn't affect me, and neither did i skip them (the first time).
Just because the plot presents and moves allot around philosophical and political contents doesn't make them automaticly into high quality in those aspects.
Finally don't bother with more "you are wrong" replies and rush firing criticism of all sorts towards my opinion (a subjective thing!) it won't change my views regarding the previous MGS titles but maybe the upcomming, wich i doubt and if so it doesn't change the lack of depthness (ah wait, maybe i should say quality depthness) i think about the previous titles have.
Oh and philosophy graduate i know beyond3d isn't the most apropriate forum but for someone who claims such im curious why such person just spends his intelect on the console forums and never bothered to spend more time on 'Politics & Ethics of Technology' or 'Religion, Politics & Socioeconomic climate' subforums.
*Sorry that my opinion on regard to what we were discussing somewhat derailed the original thread purpose, but i felt i needed to clear things up without resourcing to flaming taunts
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RenegadeRocks
Legend
Well, lets enjoy our separate opinions then !
Its like love, not everybody loves the same girl!
EDIT: BTW, I have not played MGS2, I was talking in context to MGS 3. I started MGS2 just last night.
Its like love, not everybody loves the same girl!
EDIT: BTW, I have not played MGS2, I was talking in context to MGS 3. I started MGS2 just last night.
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Out of curiosity, what games do you recommend as NOT cheesy?
I think if you want to comment on MGS4 story, you should at least show us you have completed the game first. Just like the poster who worried about 1 minute gameplay vs 12 minutes movie watching, the concern is justified but may be easily and greatly exaggerated by being overly pessimistic and critical.
As for comments about PS2 textures in MGS4, it's rather obvious that people who said that were not in the MGO beta. Like deepbrown mentioned, the MidTown map in MGO is very impressive. This is the map used in parts of the intro trailer. It looks detailed (comparable to Uncharted in some areas) and lighting is realistic. There is also no screen tear. I believe people will be happy with the graphics if other parts of the game are as polished as this one.
EDIT:
I took a step back and read your statement about "confusing, extrapolating and upholding things higher than they actually really are". I think people play MGS because the series has always shown impressive visuals carefully directed by Kojima. The manga-like story is what they have followed and loved for the past 20 years. Plus the boss fights are twisted and challenging. In MGS4, the developers have improved in many areas like CQC, weaponry, enemy AI, movements, etc. (The Gekkos look fun to fight !).
I see very little meat behind the "gameplay gimmick" comment. The elaborate story is an integral part of the gameplay. It is part of the fun to think and talk about them (ironically, like what you're doing now). You can't separate it in MGS.
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So you are admitting to the depth in MGS and by your quoted review, both the philosophical and political depth. This is what you were denying. I'm not going to say MGS2's end wasn't corny, but it didn't offend me - because the whole last thrid of that game was so postmodern. I was in such a state of philosophical flux that Raiden's loved upness didn't bother me - and actually grew my admiration of Snake - the real person, as opposed to Radien the videogame character.
You'd now have to quantify what you mean by "quality". Do you mean the philosophy is not explicit? Or do you mean the philosophical thoughts expressed are not themselves of any importance, nor are they expressed expressed fully? Because I find media that doesn't make it's philosophical thoughts explicit to be the much more profound exploration - eg. compare The Matrix to The Matrix 2 and 3. But I do think the MGS games explore their philosophical and political thoughts fully (and MGS4 should tie it all up for us)
Now I'm happy to agree that MGS3 was less philosophical than its forebears, since it was aiming to be a 1960's spy film (no more is this expressed than through it's title song http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_zIKKOjC7Q ), and so it was the politics and action that came shining through.
However, I fail to agree the philosophical depth and quality is missing from MGS2. This quality to many was either seen as its success or its failing (too postmodern and complex for some). Even going on the sometimes faithful Wikipedia you can get an idea of the ideas MGS2 explored (and I believe these themes were explored in MGS1 but made more explicit in MGS2):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_Gear_Solid_2:_Sons_of_Liberty
(People who haven't played MGS2, I suggest you don't read this, but i won't spoiler it as it's a very old game.)
Artificial Intellegence is greatly explored and quite explicitly through the Colonel, and relating to this is the exploration of the importance of information itself...how much are we defined by information - is information all you need to create a person, to create The Patriots? This is directly expanding upon MGS1's question of how much are we defined by our genes (this is really embedded in all three MGS games - genes and if they make us who we are - since of course Snake is a clone.)
This article http://junkerhq.net/MGS2/ (presumably by a student) is a great (though short) exploration of MGS2's philosophical themes. Here's an excerpt:
This view is confirmed by Kojima himself:
"His goal was, as he explained to me, "To make a videogame that told a story that could only be told in a videogame." His first and foremost goal, he claims, was to "Use the medium," which is, as he put it, "inherently postmodern."
And really , it's hard to deny because it's very explicit if you know what you're looking for.
And this article here http://www.insertcredit.com/features/dreaming2/index.html is a very interesting exploration of MGS2's reflective nature - the game reflects on what being a videogame is all about - what it is to play a game, what it is for a game character to be in a game and for you to control him/her. It's this reflective nature that I feel puts MGS2 especially on another level - and even into a philosophical work itself (rather than exploring other people's philosophical ideas.)
I mean I could go on and write a thesis, and my words are merely from memory and the sources I've provided. But I'll leave it at this, just to suggest that you might be missing out on things the games actually explore in their plot, codecs, and even gameplay.
And what I do in my spare time need not be of any interest to you. Playing videogames and entering into conversations about them needn't mean I am neglecting any academic sides of my personality. In fact, I think the marriage of media and philosophy can be quite productive and engaging.
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