Kinect is not required to be plugged into the xbox one

[Jay]

Carmack said it was 'like a zero button mouse with lots of lag'. I guess we'll get the feedback from Gamescon when people actually get to use it for real.

And he also doesn't believe that any game should run bellow 60fps.
So I think his comments should be taken in context.

Some games have more lag than others, the new XB1 controller latency is 20% better than old 360 one, does that mean the 360 was really bad and everyone noticed and complained?

The proof will be in people actually using it as you said feedback from gamescon.

But it's also worth noting that MS, view of how to use the Kinect has also changed.

 

[Jay]

I think the biggest difference is that the Kinnect will be sitting in front of the TV where it can view the entire family. It doesn't spend its life stuffed in your back pocket or with it's lid closed. There are lots of times that your mobile device is capable of monitoring you but there are also lots of times that it isn't. Not so with the kinnect. Also your mobile device is usually only capable of viewing the person using it. You have a choice there, but not so with the kinnect.

I also think that, considering MS's involvement with PRISM etc, that people are more aware of the uses that it can\will be put to. Even if it's just something like targeted advertising which is more or less guaranteed.

The chances of a mobile device monitoring you is probably higher than Kinect, as you take it everywhere. That includes GPS etc.

So people who are so worried, have they stopped using email, mobiles, search engines, laptops, pads, etc? Bet most of them haven't.
Yet, MS telling them that there's privacy settings and you can turn it fully off wasn't good enough. What was it "trusting the pixels on the screen" isn't good enough.

Maybe they should go after all those other companies, and governments, instead of a device that is in 0% of homes, compared to the millions that others are in, and millions that use particular services.

MS involvement with PRISM?
Is it any more or less than other companies? Facts not assumptions.

I'm not saying there isn't valid privacy concerns, but it seems to have been blown up for Kinect compared to all the other ones. Especially if switching it totally off isn't good enough.

 

[BRiT]

My question are as followed...

If 3rd party engines (Unreal, Crytek, etc...) are already system taxing, why would they even consider using Kinect 2 features, since the Xbox 1 hardware paper-wise is the lesser of the two (PS4/PC)? Wouldn't those extra resources allotted for Kinect 2, be best served for overall game performance and IQ parity?!

Because there will little or no impact on system resources when using Kinect 2 thanks to the dedicated resources for it, not to mention the SHAPE chip will easily handle Kinect in addition to all other system audio items.

 

[Cyan]

Because there will little or no impact on system resources when using Kinect 2 thanks to the dedicated resources for it, not to mention the SHAPE chip will easily handle Kinect in addition to all other system audio items.

Nice post. Besides that, Microsoft have already confirmed that they aren't going to sell the Xbox One without Kinect:

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2423027,00.asp

It's the only way to make it a standard for future years and generations.

I can understand it was a peripheral in the Xbox 360 days because it was created late within the lifespan of the consoel, but if you want people and developers to use it, they have to keep the legacy, if not all the work behind the Kinect would go to waste.

 

[Shortbread]

Because there will little or no impact on system resources when using Kinect 2 thanks to the dedicated resources for it, not to mention the SHAPE chip will easily handle Kinect in addition to all other system audio items.

That's what I'm getting at...

If I'm not mistaken, Kinect 2 reserves one Jaguar core, and the Operating Systems(s) reserves one, possibly two cores as well ...leaving the developer minimally with 5 logical cores to work with. IMHO, having a full logical core dedicated to a fractured user base (always on/sometimes on/always off) is somewhat stupid. If the "Always On" policy was in place, then it would make sense for 3rd party developers to push the extra benefits and strengths of Kinect 2, however its an option.

Why waste resources/time/money on something that's an option now? Hell, Microsoft's own first party wares haven't shown anything significant with Kinect 2 as of today. Honestly, Microsoft should relinquish the reserved core on improving performance, AI routines, etc... especially when 3rd party developers are hinting PS4 being the starting platform of choice, because X1 is showing it's shortcomings in certain areas.

 

[wco81]

I can understand it was a peripheral in the Xbox 360 days because it was created late within the lifespan of the consoel, but if you want people and developers to use it, they have to keep the legacy, if not all the work behind the Kinect would go to waste.

What happens if most or even a large number of X1s always operate with Kinect turned off?

Or people keep the console off when they're not playing games, since that's what they're used to doing?

Then will developers bother?

 

[Jay]

That's what I'm getting at...

If I'm not mistaken, Kinect 2 reserves one Jaguar core, and the Operating Systems(s) reserves one, possibly two cores as well ...leaving the developer minimally with 5 logical cores to work with. IMHO, having a full logical core dedicated to a fractured user base (always on/sometimes on/always off) is somewhat stupid. If the "Always On" policy was in place, then it would make sense for 3rd party developers to push the extra benefits and strengths of Kinect 2, however its an option.

Why waste resources/time/money on something that's an option now? Hell, Microsoft's own first party wares haven't shown anything significant with Kinect 2 as of today. Honestly, Microsoft should relinquish the reserved core on improving performance, AI routines, etc... especially when 3rd party developers are hinting PS4 being the starting platform of choice, because X1 is showing it's shortcomings in certain areas.

When he says dedicated resources he means dedicated silicon.
This time it has custom chips in both the Kinect and the XB1 to deal with Kinect.

2 Cores are used for OS, 6 are for games.

Very different than how it was on the X360.

 

[BRiT]

If I'm not mistaken, Kinect 2 reserves one Jaguar core, and the Operating Systems(s) reserves one, possibly two cores as well ..

Yes, you are mistaken. Those reservations are not for Kinect 2.

 

[manux]

Sorry if I've missed it but have they mentioned how much lag kindect 2 has. Someone mentioned it's better than kinect1 which doesn't say much as kinect1 lag was terrible. I.e an improvement of terrible could be still bad. What are the actual numbers (not impressions) is it less than 20msec which is about the border I think to be able to do a hard core game. If it's under this number there are a few ways that it can improve game play for a hard core game

Kinect2 is 30fps so you would have 33ms lag before even starting to move the image from sensor to main system for processing. Then add time to process the image and however many frames you need per gesture to recognize the gesture. Also you would need to add the lag engine has from taking input, processing it and rendering something to display.

 

[wco81]

So what is the OS doing with 2 cores which are not related to processing Kinect input?

 

[AzBat]

I'm still trying to understand why people people think that Kinect is still just an option? It's in every box & before the change it was allowed to be turned off via software. So if it's turned off via software or physically disconnected, what difference does it make to the developer? The developer can still make their Kinect-focused title with the knowledge that it came with every system. And if it's not turned on or connected they can flash a message to the user to connect or turn on the SOB/POS! LOL Come on guys it's not rocket science here.

Tommy McClain

 

[wco81]

Because if people aren't using it, what incentive is there for the developers to support it, whether or not the X1 owners have K2 or not?

 

[ERP]

I just wonder what percentage of owners won't bother plugging it in, my guess is that is a very small minority of owners and if games can require it, that set drops further.
MS could also require games use it in some way if they really wanted too. Though you'd end up with a lot of check box implementations.

I think kinect has potential IF it can be used to detect small gestures while playing a game with a controller, and if one game can pull of a compelling use, it will be copied over and over.

My biggest issue is having no way to practically install it in my media room.

 

[AzBat]

Because if people aren't using it, what incentive is there for the developers to support it, whether or not the X1 owners have K2 or not?

I understand, but the issue with the OP was that the news is what changed everything(the 180). It doesn't. It could still be turned off before. That's what I'm trying to point out.

Tommy McClain

 

[eastmen]

I just wonder what percentage of owners won't bother plugging it in, my guess is that is a very small minority of owners and if games can require it, that set drops further.
MS could also require games use it in some way if they really wanted too. Though you'd end up with a lot of check box implementations.

I think kinect has potential IF it can be used to detect small gestures while playing a game with a controller, and if one game can pull of a compelling use, it will be copied over and over.

My biggest issue is having no way to practically install it in my media room.

Hopefully MS has the common sense to put in a good Kinect game with the system. That way people do try it . Even something as simple as wii sports would work.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I just wonder what percentage of owners won't bother plugging it in, my guess is that is a very small minority of owners and if games can require it, that set drops further.

This is exactly the problem with it being optional. Everyone who buys an XB1 will connect Kinect up out of curiosity. They'll give it a whirl. If there's no software to justify it though, some will start to remove it from their set-up because the camera looks out of place with their TV and the like.

The only way to ensure Kinect 2 doesn't fizzle out and become redundant is to provide a truly compelling experience that people will want. So far, only the UI has been shown in that respect, and that's not enough to keep everyone interested IMO.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

It wouldn't surprise me if the initial Xbox One setup was purely done through Kinect with no input from the controller. Assuming it's as polished as they've been saying that could lead to a big positive initial impression which then gets people to go out and buy a Kinect game.

Similar in a way to how the Wii started you right off with motion calibration and then everything was point and click during its setup to get people right into the motion controls.

Regards,
SB

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I agree. But long term, people will start taking the Kinect down and packing it away in the drawer full of gaming stuff they have if there's no reason to keep it connected. It's not an inconspicuous device and if it's not contributing to the experience, I for one would rather not have it up. I'm seeing something like PSEye. I bought it, played a couple of Sony's weak PSEye titles, and then it had no purpose and I put it away. Obviously the voice input is key to Kinect 2 and that'll be enough for a proportion of users, but there'll be others who want more to justify its presence under/over their TV.

MS need to show not only Kinect 2 titles that are worth playing at launch, but an upcoming library that proves it'll be a consistent boon to games, that devs are using it, and devs can continue to use it because it won't be packed away one day as everyone values the contribution Kinect has with XB1.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Yes, universal inclusion with every consoles will give it a leg up in comparison to PSEye in that developers know that everyone with an Xbox One has a Kinect, but it still has to have developer support. After all the tilt controls in Sixaxis didn't get much developer support despite being included with all launch PS3s. Then again, Kinect offers more compelling prospects for gaming.

Regards,
SB

 

[zed]

Thanks guys for the lag info. So theres no final numbers I take it. Yes I was reading about the baby camera hacking today. I do agree with what's mentioned here to make people believe in it they need to show more than party dancing etc games at launch hopefully include it in the package