Ken Kutaragi Interview by Hiroshige Goto (PC Wach)

I'm beginning to agree here. This could turn out bad for Sony.

Not only does Microsoft look set to beat Sony to the "computer entertainment" punch, but what happens if devs simply can't realize their visions on PS3 because the base console has no hard drive?

A few weeks ago, I'd said Sony was too smart to do something stupid (like a certain other company did when it chose old, outdated carts over high-capacity CD-ROMs). And yet, this hard drive issue may boil down to the same thing. Microsoft puts one in; Sony chooses not to. What are the repercussions? Is it possible they could lose Square or another big dev?

How ironic that the same decisions that led to Sony's rise may contribute to its fall.

All of this is to say nothing of the fact that a no-hard drive PS3 may hold back the gaming experience. For example, IMS is planning downloads and mods for its Elder Scrolls: Oblivion game. Will PS3 enjoy these types of benefits if only a fraction of its user base owns a hard drive? :?

 

Simple remedy, learn to use Linux. It not all that hard, most people that work on Linux Distros are going out of there way to make the environment as user friendly as ever!....

Another things is...the CELL is a new technology that will be using new architectures, Windows and Apple are built on Legacy hardware...and they won't budge for anything. What I can see happening is maybe Apple rewritting a variant OS thats not part of there main OS but is specifically tailored toward CELL based machines.

As Shifty said, the way to go is with Linux. Open Source pre-built OS....its the best choice of them all.

PS: I want to give props to Slackerware, Fedora Core 3 and Gentoo...if you've never used Linux try one of these three (or all three!)...you won't regret it!

As far as this may being Sonys downfall...I don't see how that would effect them that much. Honestly, if developers are going to develop games with HDD functions then just develop them that way. All Sony needs to do is just release a HDD addon and it will be the consumers choice if they want the HDD or not. Bundle it or sell it separetly...just have the HDD available a little while after the launch of the PS3....that effectively takes away the NON HDD and PACKAGED HDD PS3's.

Sony (from a business standpoint) MUST know the importance of an HDD in the coming consoles, I honestly can't see them not bundling an HDD with the PS3 and not having a plan that allows consumers to easily get an HDD. If they do scrape HDD functions (or severely cripple it) then I can see that as a serious issue, it cannot be a true media center without some type of storage mechanism....

Note: Whats this thing Kutagari keeps throwing around about CELL Network storage? Imagine if you could connect to a PC in your house through your network and utilize its HDD.....

>.>

 

I've never understood the whole point of Linux on a console.

People have been installing linux on xbox's for like 3 years now, at least, but I didn't bother installing it on mine cause I really didn't see the point.

I mean, first of all there are tons of applications written specifically for the native OS, so anything you want to do you can pretty much do(web browser, ftp server, emulators, media centre, dvd players). And I don't get why someone would rather use their TV to do PC-related tasks liek browsing etc...what's the point really?

I guess from the PS3's point of view, linux would be cool cause it would let you install alot of different apps without needing them to be written specifically for the PS3 OS. But I really don't think sony would let you do that, it would be a pirates paradise.

The big problem with not including a HD is that nobody bothers writng very many applications for the system, so with no bundled HD you won't see an onslaught of homebrew software like you saw with the original XBOX, and might see with the 360, if it can be modded/exploited.

p.s. FC 3 rocks. YUM is a lifesaver.

 

Linux on every PS3 HDD! A dream is coming true
Now let's see the prices

Why should I care if Sony makes a mistake with this, I love it no matter what 8)

 

I think this goes under the category of "If it sounds too good to be true..it probably is"

By his referemce to a CELL server etc, he must mean uploading files to an external server via imternet connectiom.

How are they going to offer you a tera-byte of storage, and let you upload entire HD movies etc. If 120 GB is "too small" that means he expects more than that amount of storgae being required.

First of all, who has this kind of bandwidth or internet connection. And I don't know about your ISP's, but my ISP would be on my ass if I started uploading/downbloading 100's of gigs of data every month. And thirdly, who's paying for these servers with "tera-bytes" of storage and massive bandwidth limits, Sony?

It's one of those ideas that sounds great, but when you think it through, it's just not feasible.

 

Good points. I still think this is a risk on Sony's part, though.

Remember when KK said of the original PlayStation: "We imagined where games would be in five years, then we built that machine." Well I can see a hard drive being pretty important to a modern console and especially a "computer-entertainment" living room device in the next five years. And I think it's better to build in what you need instead of fracturing your user base with Haves and Have-Nots.

Granted, it'd be cool if there WAS some way to use your PC's hard drive, but again, I have no idea whether that would really work.

Bottom line for me is that right now, I see Microsoft in a much better position than Sony to become the center of our living rooms.

 

I'm talking about connecting to a PC in your HOUSE. Like the PS3 would be in the living room...and my main PC would be in my room. I have a home wireless network setup. Connect my PS3 to my OWN PC in my house and utilize the 250Gigs of HDD space that I have (40Gigs are being taken up, so utilize the rest). Its a good alternative to having no HDD at all....

 

Sony is already shipping linux on the ps2? Has that set off a revolution. I think their goals of replacing pcs is alittle off base. In the end people buy consoles to play games, not to bring down the MS monopoly by going open source. Those individuals are a small part of the consumer market.

 

I think without a doubt, you will be able to do that.

Sony would be dumb not too, as 360 will have be built in sharing, and peole with modded xbox's have been doing that for years now. So I'm sure the PS3 will network to your PC with ease.

Hopefully it has some sort of built in media player, is this possible without a HD though?? It sucks, cause even with network capabilites, there's no way to install cool apps to take advantage of it, so you're stuck with whatever comes integrated into the PS3 system. Unless you shell out more cash for the internal HD.

 

Sony hasn't mentioned that.

 

Well, how can it be a "mutlimedia" center without having a HD or being able to network with windows?

If it can't stream from windows shares, man, that really limits it's uses in the living room.

You would be forced to copy every mp3, music video or movie on your PC over to the Linux HD, rather than just streaming from your main collection, what a pain that would be.

I think it's pretty simple to connect to Windows using SMB shares, so I really doubt they will not support this, it just would be too dumb of a move.

 

So Sony is going to use Linux to achieve a Minority Report type UI on the PS3.

It's amazing what all vaporware can do.

 

Streaming is good for alot of things. I don't see how well that would work for maps , demos or mods .

I guess you would need to buy a hardrive or alot of memory sticks / sans disks

 

I honestly think we just need to wait and watch what happens on the 'multimedia hub' front before everybody jumps to conclusions. The fact is we know much less about Sony's strategy than we do about Microsoft's right now in terms of hub functionality. I agree that streaming from a PC is more convenient than having to duplicate files onto another hard drive, but at the same time I see the later as being a concept far more accessible to the 'average' user. Networking is a vague concept to the majority of computer users I'd say, and not the other way around. Whereas on the other hand, copying files is something most individuals readily understand.

PS - That isn't to say that this is what Sony will or will not do, I'm just commenting on the info available at the moment.

 

I don't think he was saying this will definitely be done, more what could be done.

And it could be. But who knows if that'll happen. It'd be nice if you could point and click with your finger rather than a mouse though If you wanted to move computing to the couch, that's one area that obviously would have to be tackled (a keyboard could work ok from a couch, but a mouse?)

 

That upgrade is stupidly expensive ($199 I thought, last time I looked) and for a very low power machine by modern PC standard. Just how much can you do on 32 Mb RAM? PS3 is much more capable of running ecent PC-like apps, along with awesome games.

I've no interest in PS2's Linux option. I have in PS3's (Not least because a raytracer I use is available on Linux and I want those SPE's to do their stuff!)

 

I think you should be able to connect to your HD on your computer (shouldn't be too hard). But it's hard to tell what he is referring to regarding remote storage--from what I can gather, what he is saying is an HDD won't be needed because they will provide a service (I believe previously cryptically referred to as Cell Storage) for remote storage. Obviously no one is going to have a terabyte harddrive sitting around! I agree the bandwith issue is a problem, but for saving typical game information how much data really is there? My broadband connection is pretty fast, and could handle quite a bit of data flow, gigs, no way, but a few hundred MB aren't a big deal. I don't know if they are really thinking of uploading/downloading HD movies through this system, bandwith would really be a problem. I don't own an xbox, but how much space did the games that took advantage of the HDD actually use up? Some, all, barely any?
The issues are 1) does it cost to have a giant remote storage facility and provide that service for free (or as part of PS3 Online service subscription) vs. including 20-180 whatever gig harddrives in every box Assuming $20 bucks per HDD and just 5 million units, that's $100,000,000 to play with in reduced costs, and if sold as an add on, HDD turns into a profit generator instead of a production cost, and I assume you could buy a nice chunk of storage for that (curious as to what M$ pays for hotmail storage?). Assuming they sell another 90mm units, it would be $1.8 billion (I know that's high since costs come down, but still). I also am aware that these cost reductions are not necessarily fungible. 2) what are the demands on bandwith and file sizes that would need to be transferred for a typical game that would otherwise have relied on HDD support? I have no clue. :? Maybe that's what they are kicking around. But yes, if you have a 56k dialup connection with this set up, I would think you are pretty hosed. Maybe KK doesn't care so much considering he put a 1gb/s port on the box, and is thinking everyone will be on a broadband connection relatively soon (a bit optimistic I think). But biggest issue other than bandwith to me seems like the loss of an HDD cache and slow load times, a problem remote storage I think would do nothing to address.

Anyway, I think if KK figures he can save nearly a billion in production costs on PS3 by spending a few hundred million on remote storage, maybe it's worth a shot?

 

Yes, optional indeed. Try storing updates, mods and patches on a memory card. How can they even consider the PS3 a Computer Entertainment System without some sort of massive secondary cache.

 

Oh don't be so dramatic. You can buy one. And turn it into that "computer entertainment system". If you wanted it to be any sort of home entertainment or computer entertainment hub, you'd need more space than the 10 or 20GB disc they could provide as standard anyway (and that's exactly the point Kutaragi starts off by making - whatever they could include, it won't be enough). The only issue here is whether game developers can assume a HDD is there or not.

There's plenty of things other consoles are missing. At least the one thing PS3 is missing is something you can pick up and add. Not so with certain things being left out in other machines (digital video out, next-gen disc drives etc.)

So again, the point boils down to whether developers can assume a HDD is there or not. For some games, it matters (MMORPGs), for many others it does not. You know, it's interesting to note that even though online was an optional extra on PS2, ultimately more people went online with their PS2 than Xbox, and that was a bigger audience for devs, even if it wasn't standard. If the same situation existed with HDDs next gen..it's something to ponder.

(there are also rumours running rampant that X360 devs are being told not to assume the presence of a HDD in X360 - I kind of find that hard to believe, but can any devs here confirm or deny that?)

 

He makes it pretty clear why they plan to include linux on the harddrive. I wouldn't expect much in the way of homebrew game development support.