J. Allard interview by Hiroshige Goto pt.2

[scooby_dooby]

Well we have to remember here...where talking about a billion dollar company..

You mean a billion-dollar-in-debt company.

Isn't Sony like 60Billion dollars in the hole?

 

[scooby_dooby]

Question: How much do these dual-laser blu-ray drives cost to make?

Are they really that much more expensive than a 10Gb or 20Gb HD?

To be backwards compatible the drive can't be just blu-ray, it needs a dvd laser as well, these "Dual-laser" blu ray drives are supposed to be much more expensive to manufacture. I read one article statung they wold begin selling at the end of 2005 starting at $300 USD.

Wouldn't simply going with a normal DVD drive enable them to save enough money to include a HD?

If so I think that's one crappy deal for gamers.

 

[London Geezer]

Well we have to remember here...where talking about a billion dollar company..

You mean a billion-dollar-in-debt company.

Isn't Sony like 60Billion dollars in the hole?

:| Some people...


So now Sony is in debt 3 times the amount MS is worth... wow...

 

[BlueTsunami]

Well we have to remember here...where talking about a billion dollar company..

You mean a billion-dollar-in-debt company.

Isn't Sony like 60Billion dollars in the hole?

:| Some people...


So now Sony is in debt 3 times the amount MS is worth... wow...

I'm assuming he/she was being sarcastic...and if not, I hope he/she doesn't own a company...because to let yourself become 60 Billion dollars in debt would classify as a really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really bad business decission.....(actually multiple )

 

[nameless_one]

Well we have to remember here...where talking about a billion dollar company..

You mean a billion-dollar-in-debt company.

Isn't Sony like 60Billion dollars in the hole?

:| Some people...


So now Sony is in debt 3 times the amount MS is worth... wow...

If sony was in debt 60 billion, the debt would be worth around 1/5th of MS

http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=msft (Market capitilization)

 

[mckmas8808]

Well the debt is long term debt. Kind of like a mortage on your house. They are not really worried about it. With big things happen with Sony now and things that will happen in the future things should start to turn around.

The PSP for example made them 150 million dollars in two days. And the HDD is not a price thing with Sony just a does it really need to be standard. They view the HDD as a extra media feature that can be used for games not the other way around. That to me is that problem.
________
White Widow Seeds

 

[goonergaz]

Cell has cost Sony lots of dosh, however - to incorporate them into PS3 will surely be cheaper than going for a completely new CPU and having to redesgin (and lose one hell of a lot of face - remember the cell was always going to be in PS3).

Blu ray may cost a lot of money, however, I think Sony see PS3 like they did PS2...remember, PS2 was a cheap DVD player that also played the latest games and I believe sold well because it had the ability to play DVDs out of the box. Likewise when PS3 comes out 'Blu ray ready' they hope that Blu ray films (and players) will be starting to come through and people will again see PS3 as a cheap Blu ray player, that also plays the latest games (as well as all their backlog least we forget - another good selling point of PS2).

All the other bits are cheap add-ins, USB ports, extra outputs etc - all extra bits that look good on paper v the price they cost.

Either way, are we saying PS3 is BEHIND X360?

I certainly don't think so, on a par at least IMHO...and I only see it lacking in HDD (WHICH STILL HSAN'T BEEN CONFIRMED EITHER WAY) and live (which as I pointed out earlier affects about 10% of the market only.

 

[jvd]

The PSP for example made them 150 million dollars in two days. And the HDD is not a price thing with Sony just a does it really need to be standard. They view the HDD as a extra media feature that can be used for games not the other way around. That to me is that problem.

actually the 150 million is what was driven through tills if you read the report correctly . The money sony got from that was much lower . COnsidering the store took a part of that money .

As for sony long term debt is still debt and if they don't become profitable in the short term when that long term date comes around they will be in deep....

 

[jvd]

Blu ray may cost a lot of money, however, I think Sony see PS3 like they did PS2...remember, PS2 was a cheap DVD player that also played the latest games and I believe sold well because it had the ability to play DVDs out of the box. Likewise when PS3 comes out 'Blu ray ready' they hope that Blu ray films (and players) will be starting to come through and people will again see PS3 as a cheap Blu ray player, that also plays the latest games (as well as all their backlog least we forget - another good selling point of PS2).

we've had this talk . When ps2 came out dvd was on the market for 3 years or so and was the established new movie format . When bluray comes to market it will be most likely going up against hd-dvd , also while the dvd drive was manufactured for 3 or so years before the ps2 launch the bluray drive will not have bene produced for that long nor in the same quanity that the dvd drive was at .

All the other bits are cheap add-ins, USB ports, extra outputs etc - all extra bits that look good on paper v the price they cost.

only if they are widely used , the ps2 had a lot of cheap add ins and they were slowly taken out on its way to the pstwo...

Either way, are we saying PS3 is BEHIND X360?

na but if it doesn't come equiped with a hdd then in tha way it will be way behind .

I certainly don't think so, on a par at least IMHO...and I only see it lacking in HDD (WHICH STILL HSAN'T BEEN CONFIRMED EITHER WAY) and live (which as I pointed out earlier affects about 10% of the market only.

Well

1) 10% at 50$ a year is still alot of money . Thats assuming the market doesn't grow .

2) This time there is a free version of live and more people have broad band . So the amount of people who start at the free version and go foward can increase the size of live

 

[Crazyace]

xbox360 HDD

It seems to me that the XB360 hard drive is something of an 'optional extra' as well, seeing as it isn't completely built in...
Maybe MSoft will only bundle it with the initial launch units, and make it an optional extra for the mainstream. If that happens then devs wont be able to assume anything about the presence of the drive, and you have the same situation as the PS2.

 

[expletive]

Re: xbox360 HDD

It seems to me that the XB360 hard drive is something of an 'optional extra' as well, seeing as it isn't completely built in...
Maybe MSoft will only bundle it with the initial launch units, and make it an optional extra for the mainstream. If that happens then devs wont be able to assume anything about the presence of the drive, and you have the same situation as the PS2.

I believe the reason why its external is becuase MS wants to make getting in the box very difficult for modders. With the drive being external, MS can easily service this part without having to open the box. There has also been talk of it being portable so that users can share the content on their HDs.

All indications so far have been that the 360 will ship with a HD.

John

 

[Titanio]

Re: xbox360 HDD

I believe the reason why its external is becuase MS wants to make getting in the box very difficult for modders. With the drive being external, MS can easily service this part without having to open the box. There has also been talk of it being portable so that users can share the content on their HDs.

All indications so far have been that the 360 will ship with a HD.

John

I think the suggestion is that MS may be keeping its options open as to whether a HD will always be bundled with the system or not. For example, if costs don't scale as they like, or if they need a way to quickly and easily provide a cheaper box, they could take out the HD as standard. That is to say, that a HD will be included with systems starting out doesn't necessarily guarantee they'll always be included. There is a rumour going around that devs are being told not to assume the presence of a HD - perhaps in order to leave the option open for MS to take it out later - but I've no idea how true that is or not (anyone here know for sure?)

 

[goonergaz]

Pick one username and post from that . IF you continue to post on two names your accounts will be banned

 

[Gollum]

I've been wondering....could someone put together a list of benefits (no negatives) of having a HDD in a console? I already know what some of the most obvious are but I would like to see a complete list of what people think and see if HDDs are as important as they say they are and are worth the price thats fixed no matter what...

- no additional costs for memory cards (more than makes up for the added cost IMO)
- virtually limitless number of saves
- faster loading times
- better caching for game content
- new features/possibilities for games
- more flexible customization/editing options for games
- download additional content (levels, demos, videos, etc.)
- fixes and updates for games (invaluable for competitive online-multiplayer games)
- greatly enhanced multi-media capabilities
- custom soundtracks in games
- possibility to copy/start games to/from HDD (maybe)
- storage for voice and video messages
- ...

Feel free to add more items to the list, as its in no way comprehensive yet.

 

[EpicZero]

Well the debt is long term debt. Kind of like a mortage on your house. They are not really worried about it. With big things happen with Sony now and things that will happen in the future things should start to turn around.

The PSP for example made them 150 million dollars in two days. And the HDD is not a price thing with Sony just a does it really need to be standard. They view the HDD as a extra media feature that can be used for games not the other way around. That to me is that problem.

I thought it was liabilities...?

 

[BlueTsunami]

I've been wondering....could someone put together a list of benefits (no negatives) of having a HDD in a console? I already know what some of the most obvious are but I would like to see a complete list of what people think and see if HDDs are as important as they say they are and are worth the price thats fixed no matter what...

- no additional costs for memory cards (more than makes up for the added cost IMO)
- virtually limitless number of saves
- faster loading times
- better caching for game content
- new features/possibilities for games
- more flexible customization/editing options for games
- download additional content (levels, demos, videos, etc.)
- fixes and updates for games (invaluable for competitive online-multiplayer games)
- greatly enhanced multi-media capabilities
- custom soundtracks in games
- possibility to copy/start games to/from HDD (maybe)
- storage for voice and video messages
- ...

Feel free to add more items to the list, as its in no way comprehensive yet.

Thanks Gollum! So yeah with that said...if Sony really wanted this to be a multimedia like HUB, then without the HDD its missing its most vital part. But I guess when they said HUB they ment something along the lines as a medium where entertainment goes through the PS3...but not stored on it....

 

[mckmas8808]

But I guess when they said HUB they ment something along the lines as a medium where entertainment goes through the PS3...but not stored on it....

Yeah thats the part that I hate about Sony. They need to get their minds right. I think they should include the HDD regardless if MS does it first.

 

[Acert93]

Thanks Gollum! So yeah with that said...if Sony really wanted this to be a multimedia like HUB, then without the HDD its missing its most vital part. But I guess when they said HUB they ment something along the lines as a medium where entertainment goes through the PS3...but not stored on it....

Gollum hit on a lot of them. I had forgot about custom sound tracks Another one will be music purchases (i.e. like Napster, iTuns, MusicMatch, Walmart, whatever). I can see that broadening out into Game Related content also. In the "PS3 to Launch with No HD?!?" thread I had some other points as well:

Well the point would be demos, movie trailers, microtransactions, downloadable content (maps, levels, weapons, characters), and the added versatility a large storage medium gives you for online games, MMOs, and other unique games (like a Mario paint). On the technical side it allows data caching to improve load times. And from a practical point of view it could allow some video recording (not sure if this is a native Xbox 360 feature although Allard did show a recorded NFL show... either way the PS3 is not a game console but a entertainment media device so including some PVR out of the box would add a forte to this point). And considering the number of people who watch TV/record STV vs. the number of people who have HD TVs, it is easy to see that a recording feature to a HDD would appeal to more customers. And as a customer it saves me from shelling out $20-$30 at launch for a small memory card. As online become more and more relevant to the consoles a HDD will be used more often. And while HD TV is the future, Broadband is the present. Broadband connections world wide are expected to break 215M this year (about 40M in the US... both totals crush HD TV sales). Unlike the Xbox, Xbox 360 ships with live AND many of the features will be FREE to everyone. i.e. The install base of Live will go up significant from Day 1 and therefore the HDD will find itself used even more. This is even more true in that MS has a lot more exclusive support this time around. Ports are not going away, but one of the biggest strengths of the Xbox was that it had superior ports. But since neither the PS2 or GCN had any relevant mass storage support this feature was not used by ports. While that will probably again be true, MS has established itself in the market and will get more direct developer support, which in turn will mean more developers use the HDD.

On the reverse, not including the device standard, guarantees it will be a catch 22: Developers wont fully utilize it because not only PS3 owners have a HDD, and consumers wont all jump on the HDD band wagon because developers under utlize the device. The PS2 is a perfect example of this. It was so underutilized that Sony even removed the HDD slot. But as a gamer, who buys game consoles primarily for gaming functions, media options that do not directly compliment gaming are a waste for me and many consumers.

And while a 20GB HDD wont meet every persons TV recording needs, it is enough for the primary uses of the device. And for those who need bigger HDD they can easily upgrade.

Hmmm another idea is EXANSION PACKS. Common on the PC, and huge money makers for developers, this could be a big plus. Developers spend a ton of time making a story, creating art assets, developing and tweaking an engine, etc... And then they sell that retail for $40-$50. Why let all that work go to waste? A lot of time stuff is cut from games because it did not quite fit right or time was short, etc... So why not take all the art assets, polish up some new content and cut content (which goes pretty fast once a game has been made... basically a professional mod!) and sell it for $20 over Live and put it on their HDD?

Something like that would make developers ESTATIC! See, Expansion packs don't work at retail for console games because why would you buy the $50 full version when you can get a comparable game for $20? But an Downloadable Expansion back does because you have the Expansion on the HDD and require the full version in the DVD drive.

How many times have you wanted an expansion to a series that took 2-4 years to have a sequal? Zelda? GTA3? Halo? Metroid? On and on.

Using expansion packs can keep the rabid fans happy, leverage your created content (that otherwise would get wasted), keep game buyers money going to YOU and not your competitors, give an oppurtunity to test out new play mechanics and whatnot without risking your franchise, and would be a HUGE revenue boost. A $50 retail game has a ton of money taken out of it from all corners. But an expansion pack would be targeting game owners who already have the game and would be distributed online (or maybe through an installation DVD). Developers could easily side step retail markup by offering this online. Basically MS/Sony/Nintendo would take their cut, but the developer would not be losing the large retail cut.


Anyhow, there are LOTS of ways a HDD can be leveraged to benefit both consumers AND developers.

 

[mckmas8808]

Using expansion packs can keep the rabid fans happy, leverage your created content (that otherwise would get wasted), keep game buyers money going to YOU and not your competitors, give an oppurtunity to test out new play mechanics and whatnot without risking your franchise, and would be a HUGE revenue boost

Damn Acert93 your on the money today!! Can I say MGS 3 Online? Is that not a great example of what you just said. Konami is coming out with this new MGS3 with online capabilities and a new camera view. On the PS3 something like this could be done and sold on Sony Online for like $20, instead of a whole 50.

I can see it now between today and the launch of the X360 we here at B3D could come up with like 50 reasons to include a HDD. So why should Sony not include it. We now it isn't the extra money. They have already proven that money isn't the reason, so whats the deal?

 

[Ty]

So why should Sony not include it. We now it isn't the extra money. They have already proven that money isn't the reason, so whats the deal?

Short sightedness?