ITAGAKI Clarifies X360 More Powerful Than PS3 in Interview Pt. 2

[Inane_Dork]

So which do you think is more powerful, expletive?

 

[expletive]

So which do you think is more powerful, expletive?

I think i answered that:

Am i saying the 360 will be net/net more powerful? no. Theres no way to know that at this point.

 

[ihamoitc2005]

Partial agreement

Given this reality, isnt the development environment, and its ability to leverage the hardware, almost equal in importance to the theoretical performance of the hardware?
J

Yes. What you have said is very important but even more important is size of installed base. Why develop for non-standard, non-directx PS2 at all? Because so many sold it becomes its own standard. So even though its not as simple as point and click xbox development, it is still more likely to be profitable. More hardware units = bigger market = wider range of customers = more niche markets = more probability of software sales regardless of game type = less risk. Same reason so many investing in PS3 dev-kits and middle-ware.

Microsoft strategy is best for challenger but requires more money than whole of Nintendo as company is worth, which is why Nintendo take different path and not so much challenge PS3 as hope for simultaneous sale to same customer who buys either of more expensive units. I like the Nintendo approach and hope to buy one.

 

[expletive]

Yes. What you have said is very important but even more important is size of installed base. Why develop for non-standard, non-directx PS2 at all? Because so many sold it becomes its own standard. So even though its not as simple as point and click xbox development, it is still more likely to be profitable. More hardware units = bigger market = wider range of customers = more niche markets = more probability of software sales regardless of game type = less risk. Same reason so many investing in PS3 dev-kits and middle-ware.

Microsoft strategy is best for challenger but requires more money than whole of Nintendo as company is worth, which is why Nintendo take different path and not so much challenge PS3 as hope for simultaneous sale to same customer who buys either of more expensive units. I like the Nintendo approach and hope to buy one.

I agree and i think part of the reason we're seeing a 360 controller for PCs is so MS can enable developers to leverage 2 platforms with 1 development (well maybe 1.2) cycle. This dramatically increase the 'installed base' for devlopers with only a little more development to create 2 (PC/360) versions.

I know i'm not breaking any new ground with this concept but thought it was worth mentioning in this context.

J

 

[randycat99]

The bottomline on this is that absolutely nothing can be concluded from this statement on the grounds of vested interest. He could be telling the truth or completely doing marketing. We will never know from our position in the information chain. His words are about as useful as a huge shareholder of Halliburton expounding their virtues in proper business practices. Maybe it's actually true, but maybe not. It's impossible to tell from our end. Hence, the only sane and logic response is to disregard. I know this is just too juicy a tidbit for some to let go, but the bottomline is still the bottomline (those people cannot be saved, anyway).

What IS a fair bet is that the developers who are confident they are developing on the "better" console are simply keeping their mouths shut, and keeping to polishing their product for the best experience they know how to create. They already know that the very moment they open their mouth with some greater than/less than public comment, all credibility flys out the window due to conflict of interest. The REAL proof is where it always has been- the quality of the end product.

 

[blakjedi]

my post was clearly a joke (sarcasm) sorry. i think Acerts last post was very thoughtful.

 

[overclocked]

These threads are soo dumb.
First i buy a console after witch games interest me more, backwardcomp and price.
Even on this gens consoles the difference esp from 1tier ands 2econd devs gives either one an advantage. With the nextgen there will be even less difference im quite sure.

And seriously do people only think theres room for ONE player and not TWO???
Last gen was more interesting now its only some stupid war with people that dont know shit that posts stuff like facts.

I just want too say that its OK to like/prefer one company over the other but is it so hard to put your view heard without being rude and act as pure idiots?

 

[LunchBox]

Since nitpicking on particular parts of the statement seems to be the theme of this thread...

I will add mine...

If Itagaki is saying that it's easier to harness the 360's power than the PS3...

does that mean a good amount of the tech inside the 360 is already being exploited by developers compared to the PS3?

So in terms of a dramatic increase, with the next generation titles...

Would that mean there wouldn't be a dramatic sense of improvement to what is already presented on the first gen???

Artistic Implementations aside...

This statement of his seems to come off as "We are already using a good portion of the technology because it's so easy to use... We are on the verge of maxxing out the capabilities..."

 

[Jon Brittan]

I think people are seriously missing the point of the comments or just ignoring them completely to address their own personal agenda.

I also think Acert has been pretty much correct the whole way through this thread, Itagaki's comments were perfectly valid for the question asked and he is in a better position than most of us to judge the validity of the statements himself.

Finally, I think Acert's allusion to a Porsche and a Drag Car was perfectly valid, both come under the concept of "Car", much like X360 and PS3 come under the concept of "Console", but both take different approaches to the task in hand (Covering a certain amount of ground quickly). On a straight drag the drag car will win significantly, but the Porsche will still be very fast compared to the average car, however on a twisting road the Drag Car barely need bother consider starting as it will struggle to get anywhere while the Porsche will be almost on par with it's total speed performance in the drag race.
I think, in terms of what we've heard from the developers, this is actually qutie a good comparison. PS3, when the code suits it, will be noticably faster than X360, however, due to it's flexibility X360 will attain peak, or close to peak, performance regardless of situation while, when the code doesn't suit PS3, it's performance will drop noticably.
So, what we can gain from that is that PS3 "can" be faster (or more powerful, depending upon how you define) than X360, but X360 can be at or close to its peak almost all the time while PS3 "may" not be able to match X360 in some situations if the code doesn't suit it...

Therefore, I think Itagaki's comments were perfectly valid and also perfectly suited to the question asked, he was asked which "console" was more powerful, not which processor or graphics chipset. Maybe it would have been easier if the interviewer had asked which was the "better" console in Itagaki's opinion, but I would prefer to define the "most powerful console" as the most powerful package, not just the box with the processor that can turn out the most FLOPS and the firmware and middleware are essential parts of actually getting the console to function and allow us to actually use it. Sticking with the cars analogy, there have been vehicles in the past whose engines turn out huge amounts of power and whose traction control systems stop more than 50% of that power actually getting to the road most of the time, therefore a car with only 75% of the total power output (or anything over 50% if you want to be picky) but the ability to use almost all of it almost all of the time is, in theory, less powerful but in practice more powerful in most situations.

 

[Trawler]

It's clear that if we're having this much trouble figuring out which platform has the other hand, the difference in games on either platform will be negligable.

And if the tech heads on here can't make a clear decision as to which is the better platform, how do you think the average joe is going to figure it out? Simple. Games + Price.

 

[Arty]

Dude, read blackjedi´s post. He believes PS3 is the most powerfull system, he just likes X360 better, for some reason.

Why is Itagaki so suddenly using easu of use as an arguement to choose a system over another? He publisized himself as a pursuer of technology, that the most powerfull console would get his games and no ammount of difficulty would deviate him from developing on the most powerfull hardware, so why the sudden change?

Simple, he is relevant to MS, to Sony he isn´t. In the Sony PS3 plattform, he has to contend with many other franchises that are simply better than what he produces. DOA found an audience on Xbox, he´s not about to leave the people that made DOA something to be recognized as something more than digital babes in mini skirts fighting. What about Ninja Gaiden? Heh, he´ll have plenty on his hands just trying to compete with DMC, and now he doesn´t even have the benefit of better hardware, so chances are it won´t play as good, and won´t even look as good.

Now, don´t get me wrong, his action games are pretty damn good, but ultimately politics determined who got his games, since it seems PS3 really is stronger hardware.

You havent realised that blackjedi modified Itagaki's comments to slant his favorite platform.

Like Acert says these threads are nothing but damage control by one group and the opposite for the other group. :|

 

[blakjedi]

You havent realised that blackjedi modified Itagaki's comments to slant his favorite platform.

Dude in my best vernacular, "dont be trying to tell nobody what I'm trying to say." I said its a joke aka sarcasm. All this parsing of what Itagaki said is pointless. He considers x360 more powerful. FYI I'm a graphics whore and a tech snob. I'm more of an xbox person but I'll buy both a X360 and a PS3 so that I can benefit from the best of whatever is put out. Its called having your cake and eating too.

I said in another thread that although _I_ think the cell is theoretically more powerful than the XeCPU, I dont really believe that PS3 as a system is more powerful than the X360. Unless RSX is some bonkers alien technology, Xenos evens up the score... not because its numbers match the RSX (brute force) but because there are techniques employed on Xenos which really havent been possible anywhere else.

No one ever has to necessarily infer what I mean. Just ask.

 

[Arty]

If it was meant to be sarcasm, why didnt you let Almasy know then.

 

[Acert93]

Its called having your cake and eating too.

Is that some form of local sland as well

"Its called eating your cake and having your ice cream too" hehehe At least that is how I always heard it...

No one ever has to necessarily infer what I mean. Just ask.

Doh! Guilty as charged...

Just teasin' ya man. I wish I had the $ just to get any console I wanted hehehe

Ps- But I am more interested in talking aobut them than playing them... by the time the PS3 hits I will be interested in the PS4!

 

[Thegameman]

Context.

1UP is asking a game developer what he thinks is the most powerful hardware for making games.

Itagaki, a game developer, responded that he feels the 360 is the most powerful hardware for making games.

He is very clear that the 360, in his opinion (and we should limite his statement to just that--his opinion based on his needs and the facts he has), is just that: Whether it is the hardware, software, a combination, etc... that makes it the most powerful platform--for him--is kind of irrelevant.

I know, I know... everyone wants to frame this in their ePenis Console debate, but that really is not the issue. From a game developers standpoint the most powerful platform is the platform that allows them to create the game they envision.

I see absolutely no conflict with the question and his answer. He gives his answer within a context--a very valid one considering 1. the purpose of the machine (playing games) and 2. the work he does (creating games).

To put it another way: If Team Ninja can get more power out of one machine over another, it is the most powerful machine. That is all that matters to Team Ninja.

From a developer standpoint it is more than fair to frame the answer in regards to the power you can extract from a system.

The Sega Saturn was a pretty powerful machine--yet many developers had a very VERY hard time extracting power from it. So while one developer could say it is more powerful, another could say it is not.

Both are right within the context of their dev teams, skill, budget, dev time, and design goals.

This whole, "System A has to be more powerful because it does 2x as many bungholios" is much more slanted than Itagaki's response. At least his has a context of the device use and Team Ninjas goal: TN's game creation.

I am not going to brow beat his comments or treat them as gospel. The only reason to "pity" his answer is because he is not saying what you want or framed his answer in his own perspective, something that applies to him, and you were looking for something else.

Really, fans on both sides make far too much of what these type of statements. On a dev-by-dev and game-by-game basis all that matters is what is best to reach their design goals. Whatever allows them to reach their design goals within ALL of their limitations (design goals, team size, budget, time line, technical skill)--THAT is the most powerful console.

Itagaki is heavyly biased toward MS,hes word is as bad as Bill Gates one,to add insult to it he has never been a Sony fan never or friendly for that matter,in fact he say on 2000 that they max out the PS2 from go with DOA2 hardcore,when that was very far from true,they are laysy developers that din't like the challenge in the PS2 and abandon in favor of the Xbox.

In fact they have also slam Namco for Tekken in and incredible attent to downgrade a game which is better to their games,flaming graphic like people do in video games forums when Tekken 4 and 5 are alot better looking than any game Tecmo has pull from the PS2.


Also the Saturn was not more powerful than the PS,and it was so weak in FX that it din't even have true transparency,which even the Snes has,it was a little better than the PS for 2D games cuz it had 1 more mega of ram,and i say little better cuz any one who had both consoles know that Marvel Super Heroes had the same slowdown on both consoles.

 

[dukmahsik]

it's one dev's opinion, take it for what it is nuttin more sheesh

 

[Acert93]

Itagaki sucks blah blah he really sucks.

Yes, we know this. This is why no one is jumping up saying, "See you n00bs, 360 is da bomb. PS3 is the suxxors!!!1111"

On the other hand the conspiracy theorists have missed that the Xbox 360 must have SOME advantages for Team Ninja to be dedicated to the 360. His answer is for Team Ninja the platform is more powerful. He could be lieing, who knows. But all we know is that he does not speak for other devs and that every project (game design, time frame, budget, competition in the market, funding from outside sources) and dev team (size, skill, experience) is different.

Personally I think DoA4 could be done on the PS3 quite easily, but that is neither here nor there. I am trying to take what he said at face value for him. If we assume he is lieing then SN-Systems is lieing (Sony owned) and the only devs we can trust are 3rd party, well established ones. But we would be kidding ourselves if Carmak and Newell don't have their own bias as well. That is not to say they are wrong--only that what they say is not universally applicable across the market.

Oh well.

it's one dev's opinion, take it for what it is nuttin more sheesh

QFT.

 

[mckmas8808]

Respectfully saying

Yes, we know this. This is why no one is jumping up saying, "See you n00bs, 360 is da bomb. PS3 is the suxxors!!!1111"

On the other hand the conspiracy theorists have missed that the Xbox 360 must have SOME advantages for Team Ninja to be dedicated to the 360. His answer is for Team Ninja the platform is more powerful. He could be lieing, who knows. But all we know is that he does not speak for other devs and that every project (game design, time frame, budget, competition in the market, funding from outside sources) and dev team (size, skill, experience) is different.

Personally I think DoA4 could be done on the PS3 quite easily, but that is neither here nor there. I am trying to take what he said at face value for him. If we assume he is lieing then SN-Systems is lieing (Sony owned) and the only devs we can trust are 3rd party, well established ones. But we would be kidding ourselves if Carmak and Newell don't have their own bias as well. That is not to say they are wrong--only that what they say is not universally applicable across the market.

Oh well.

QFT.

So Acert you're saying that what the God of War dev said should also be taken into consideration? He said that the PS3 is obviously faster or more powerful.

 

[BlueTsunami]

This just in!!!!

I just pressed a secret buttong the PS3, appearently by pressing this button the PS3 itself turns into a Gundam X Wing 44-34 (Ultimate Edition). This then allows me to use secret First Party tools to turn ZOE: 3 into an actual Mech simulator. Goes without saying, this totally decimates the 360...both technically and tool sets wise.

There you go people. The secret of CELL is it turns your PS3 into a Gundam and comes with secret first party Tool Sets.

 

[Josh378]

Yes, we know this. This is why no one is jumping up saying, "See you n00bs, 360 is da bomb. PS3 is the suxxors!!!1111"

On the other hand the conspiracy theorists have missed that the Xbox 360 must have SOME advantages for Team Ninja to be dedicated to the 360. His answer is for Team Ninja the platform is more powerful. He could be lieing, who knows. But all we know is that he does not speak for other devs and that every project (game design, time frame, budget, competition in the market, funding from outside sources) and dev team (size, skill, experience) is different.

Personally I think DoA4 could be done on the PS3 quite easily, but that is neither here nor there. I am trying to take what he said at face value for him. If we assume he is lieing then SN-Systems is lieing (Sony owned) and the only devs we can trust are 3rd party, well established ones. But we would be kidding ourselves if Carmak and Newell don't have their own bias as well. That is not to say they are wrong--only that what they say is not universally applicable across the market.

Oh well.

QFT.

The guy is only going by the man's history. The man said he maxed out the PS2 with hardcore...and we know how much of that is true...so pardon me if I'm skeptic about anything ITAGAKI says about "system power". He maybe telling the truth(or not), but his reputation was tanted on other consoles with his past comments, so really I can't give him the respect of his comments as someone like Kojima or other multi-console developers comments.

Like I said many times before...I'm only taking these "which consoles is more powerful" comments with a grain of salt...BUT I would love to see those RSX specs tho...I say, put this thread in the PR thread and leave it be. I'll let the other developers and their games speak for themselfs...

-Josh378