ITAGAKI Clarifies X360 More Powerful Than PS3 in Interview Pt. 2

[Acert93]

So Acert you're saying that what the God of War dev said should also be taken into consideration? He said that the PS3 is obviously faster or more powerful.

To a degree, but as a 1st party developer he has no choice but to tow party line.

If you have not noticed Xbox 360 developers, even ones making exclusives, have spoken up on issues (like the HDD).

Comparing a 3rd party developer to a 1st/2nd is really not the same. Of course not all 3rd party developers are on equal footing.

But you are trying to be silly if you want to compare a 1st party developer to a 3rd party. Itagaki HAS made games on Sony platforms. When the GoW devs announce an Xbox 360 project (or their parent company does) then we can revisit this question.

Anyhow, that is really outside the context of the entire situation. Certain Sony fans are hell bent on proving their console is the best. I don't see Xbox 360 fans in here dancing about Carmak and Itagaki. Nope.

The whole power thing is cliche--very N64 vs M2 if you ask me. The only thing really comparable in function in a structured environment in the new consoles are the GPUs, yet even then both are designed to be fed by the CPUs.

But hey, whatever floats you boat.

 

[mckmas8808]

This just in!!!!



There you go people. The secret of CELL is it turns your PS3 into a Gundam and comes with secret first party Tool Sets.

WHAT? Where did you even get that information?

 

[mckmas8808]

Anyhow, that is really outside the context of the entire situation. Certain Sony fans are hell bent on proving their console is the best. I don't see Xbox 360 fans in here dancing about Carmak and Itagaki. Nope.

Maybe you should check this thread again. And I wasn't being serious about my last comment by the way.

 

[BlueTsunami]

And I wasn't being serious about my last comment by the way.

I'm happy you said this mckmas...you had me wondering for a second

 

[Acert93]

The guy is only going by the man's history. The man said he maxed out the PS2 with hardcore...and we know how much of that is true...so pardon me if I'm skeptic about anything ITAGAKI says about "system power". He maybe telling the truth(or not), but his reputation was tanted on other consoles with his past comments, so really I can't give him the respect of his comments as someone like Kojima or other multi-console developers comments.

Maybe he maxed it out considering his budget, design philosophy, and his teams abilities?

Really, you guys read WAYYY too much into this stuff. Obviously the man got a TON more out of the Xbox1, so it does appear FOR HIM that the Xbox offered a lot more power.

We know this is not universal. But it seems some of you seem bent on crucifying him because his methods don't jive with your opinion. What does it matter if the Xbox is the best platform for him to make games?

The same dev who made DoA2 hardcore made NG on the Xbox1. I THINK he is much more capable of telling us what is best for him and his team in regards to power.

You guys are trying to look at this as a "Itagaki vs. Tekken" position NOT a "Itagaki Xbox 1 vs. Itagaki PS2" position.

It is really clear that
1. Other PS2 devs were capable of doing MUCH better on the PS2
2. Itagaki's team was MUCH more capable on the Xbox

So why is it so hard for you guys to understand that this may be true of this generation of hardware?!!

Like I said many times before...I'm only taking these "which consoles is more powerful" comments with a grain of salt..

Duh, most of us are. Well, it seems everyone it taking this with a grain of salt (or trying to rip him a new hole). Ditto Carmak--people tried to understand it from his perspective, nothing more. Grain of salt--big one at that. But this was not so with SN Systems

BUT I would love to see those RSX specs tho...I say, put this thread in the PR thread and leave it be. I'll let the other developers and their games speak for themselfs...

Huh? First you say take it as a grain of salt... now you are jumping up and down about RSX specs???!

Really, you guys are looking for reasons to complain. I could understand this if someone was using this as a reason to insult the PS3 or say the Xbox 360 is better. I guess it is very hard for some people to understand that a different environment is BETTER for different developers.

Why is that so hard to understand?

 

[Tap In]

.... Certain Sony fans are hell bent on proving their console is the best. I don't see Xbox 360 fans in here dancing about Carmak and Itagaki. Nope.

The whole power thing is cliche--very N64 vs M2 if you ask me. The only thing really comparable in function in a structured environment in the new consoles are the GPUs, yet even then both are designed to be fed by the CPUs.

But hey, whatever floats you boat.

Shifty's comments earlier (in the Blue Ray thread) regarding, PARAPHRASED... poorly .... "come here to learn and debate but take everything you hear/read with a big grain of salt rather than as Gospel until/if it ever pans out" ....are dead on.

Trying to debate opinions, perceptions or PR hype as if they are indisputable FACTS rather than keeping an open mind is a massive waste of human resources IMO.

 

[Josh378]

Maybe he maxed it out considering his budget, design philosophy, and his teams abilities?

Really, you guys read WAYYY too much into this stuff. Obviously the man got a TON more out of the Xbox1, so it does appear FOR HIM that the Xbox offered a lot more power.

We know this is not universal. But it seems some of you seem bent on crucifying him because his methods don't jive with your opinion. What does it matter if the Xbox is the best platform for him to make games?

The same dev who made DoA2 hardcore made NG on the Xbox1. I THINK he is much more capable of telling us what is best for him and his team in regards to power.

You guys are trying to look at this as a "Itagaki vs. Tekken" position NOT a "Itagaki Xbox 1 vs. Itagaki PS2" position.

It is really clear that
1. Other PS2 devs were capable of doing MUCH better on the PS2
2. Itagaki's team was MUCH more capable on the Xbox

So why is it so hard for you guys to understand that this may be true of this generation of hardware?!!

Duh, most of us are. Well, it seems everyone it taking this with a grain of salt (or trying to rip him a new hole). Ditto Carmak--people tried to understand it from his perspective, nothing more. Grain of salt--big one at that. But this was not so with SN Systems

Huh? First you say take it as a grain of salt... now you are jumping up and down about RSX specs???!

Really, you guys are looking for reasons to complain. I could understand this if someone was using this as a reason to insult the PS3 or say the Xbox 360 is better. I guess it is very hard for some people to understand that a different environment is BETTER for different developers.

Why is that so hard to understand?

The point is, ITAGAKI his a conflicting past for anybody to based anything as FINAL. Some developers are prehaps better at certain things than others, but when your past conflict with your presents, it's hard to believe what they would say, as an example...

Joe grew up with Mike for 30+ years...he knows about him personally...Mike runs for President...Joe (who's now a Senator and is know by his good works) goes out and tells everybody "I'ved been with mike for 30+ years...he will be a bad president..." Mike wins anyway, and becomes the best president the country has ever had. Now 8 years later, a reporter interviews joe again about the new upcomming president...and he says "I perfer **** over ****, because...." . Are you inclined to believe Joe now, even tho he was wrong in the past?

Thats what people are talking about ITAGAKI...not because it's an xbox vs PS argument(which I really don't care about right now), but because of his past. Looking in your point-of-view, we should respect his comments...but since he's had a tanted past in multi-console development...can we truly believe him? Thats the point of this discussion. If it was someone from Bioware, I would be more inclined to believe him basicly because of his works and past reputation. This is somthing we were all taught in grade school, if you have a conflicting-type of behavior, people will be hard to believe your words. If you had a positive background, then people would believe more..

The question that was asked to ITAGAKI was:

"You always said you want to develop for the most powerful hardware around. That way you can make the best games, the coolest games, the most exciting games. Obviously the Xbox 360 is the most powerful hardware coming up. But would you say it's the most powerful of all the next-gen systems coming out?",

Not "What system do you believe is more powerful for your game".

And this was his answer:

So when you consider the hardware and software support all wrapped up in one, then yes, I would consider the 360 to be the most powerful system in that sense

The answer is not really what I care for, it's the situation of the question being asked and the person who is answering it.

Thats all I'm saying....

(the true question is, your work or your past "falty" comments...what do we put our trust in?")


As for the RSX comment? What do you really know about the RSX? We all know about the Xenos due to the interviews given by this website and others. But either than the specs released at E3, what do we know about the RSX? I'm a spec whore, but I also like to compare tangable hardware with tangible proof...and as long as their is only one GPU with specs released, I can't make any assumptions on what GPU is better for the better "graphics" arguments. No harm done at all...

-Josh378

 

[Nite_Hawk]

Shifty's comments earlier (in the Blue Ray thread) regarding, PARAPHRASED... poorly .... "come here to learn and debate but take everything you hear/read with a big grain of salt rather than as Gospel until/if it ever pans out" ....are dead on.

Trying to debate opinions, perceptions or PR hype as if they are indisputable FACTS rather than keeping an open mind is a massive waste of human resources IMO.

Yep. That's why I don't particpate in these threads much anymore. Personally, I've noticed a lot of people have trouble dealing with the following:

a) Two developers can take opposing positions and can both be correct or both be wrong.
b) High profile developers can have unfounded opinions just like the rest of us.
c) Developer's comments can be interpreted in multiple ways.
d) Things are not always balanced.
e) Things are not always clear cut.

Nite_Hawk

 

[mckmas8808]

Maybe he maxed it out considering his budget, design philosophy, and his teams abilities?

Really, you guys read WAYYY too much into this stuff. Obviously the man got a TON more out of the Xbox1, so it does appear FOR HIM that the Xbox offered a lot more power.

I think you are giving him too much credit for trying to be fair and honest.

 

[SMOKE]

I guess gaming has gotten real political or people on these boards look deepr into gaming like they do with these comments made by Itagaki. What happend to just gaming period the only specs i cared about and knew of was 8, 16 and 32bit then came 64 and so on. I dont ever recall seeing the Genesis spec sheets in elementary or Jr high for that matter. I kow this is a new day and age but lets be real hear, aftter seeing MS4 PD0 and the likes i just want to get a new gaming machine, i like graphics but I also like to palt those games and be ale to play them (control wise). Waht happened to damn that game looks good but I bet it controls like crap, the only contolling topic after these systems debut is the online service. THese games for the 360 look alright to me if i wanted to be spec savvy and picky so lets be picky at the sametime. Why is it so close to launch to the 360 that Sony's press confrence videos and TGS showing has blown the 360 out the water so far. Do you guys really listen to yuorselves when it comes to PD0. Who bought and played CONKER or still does til ths day, not to many i can say, that game had excellent visuals but played and controlled horrbly. Do any of you expect the same results from PD0. Another nit pik can be th eonline set up of PD0, 32 players.. come on now this is supposed to be 64 players around everything Nex Gen since were ut doing PC's for a few months anyway at least. I admit I am not tech savvy either but some things are obvious.

You can blast flames fron the sun at me for all I care but have you ever thought and expressed for 1 sec that maybe Sony's strategy is what they did to kill the DC, Think about it I am more impressed with the PS3 scrrens and games then I am of these launch titles for the 360 andI personally dont want to buy a new system for the same old racing games but with realistic graphics (oh that inside of that car lookk nice ) Plz how long will that last GOW is the only game like Halo a majority of gamers are picking up the 360 and since my friends and I like th elook and hopefully the feel of that game I too am getting a 360, but I think it might get traded in for the PS3 if theres no variety at the table before and after the PS3 launches. We've seen a lot more from Sony's camp and were not even sure if there releasing at all andonly a handful of ok looking games from MS and launch for them is around the corner, Sony is just waiting in my opinion to counter X05 with Playable PS3 games and a Jan.- Mar. launch window in all regions by fall 06. Expect a lot of 1st party launch games from SOny like you never seen before, oh and MAdden is another reason but i'll only by Madden if the gameplay is the way it should be physically.

Sorry for long post you guys are really educated and talented in your conversations and knowledge of gaming, love this site so all flames are welcome its cold here.

 

[Acert93]

I think you are giving him too much credit for trying to be fair and honest.

I am giving him the same benefit of the doubt I would give another 3rd party developer. Based on his abilities on PS2/Xbox I think he knows his own teams limitations.

The fact I give posters here on B3D as much benefit of the doubt about their opinions being geniune and fact driven--even if I disagree--how much more so should I give it to a dev working on a system?

He could be lieing--just like everyone else. Gabe, John, ERP, DeanoC, Faf, Panjev... you.

Nah, just easier to take them at their word; but to take the value of their word as a grain of salt.

That is a much easier approach than what you seem to be suggesting: He is lieing. He is a 3rd party you know, he is not tied to MS unless TN/Tecmo decided to.

How would you like it if someone said you were lieing because you were a PS fan? I think it is easier to view something as your opinion--but put it into a context.

Itagaki has seen the things and based on his troubles with the PS2--and his prowess with the Xbox--I tend to believe Xbox 360 is better for him. I think they had problems on the PS2 and probably are not savvy enough for the PS3. That says more about them than the machine IMO.

Not all devs are created the same.

 

[Acert93]

"You always said you want to develop for the most powerful hardware around. That way you can make the best games, the coolest games, the most exciting games. Obviously the Xbox 360 is the most powerful hardware coming up. But would you say it's the most powerful of all the next-gen systems coming out?",

Not "What system do you believe is more powerful for your game".

We already covered that. Why ANYONE could expect him to say anything outside the context of his team making games is just... just... just asinine.

What you seem to be saying is you disagree with how he views power. FINE. You think power is something different than him. But your opinion does not invalidate his world view. I think that is the problem: Take it for granted he is being honest. Many of you disagree with his position. Yet how are you to know that this is not what is most powerful for him? The trouble they had on the PS2 and the end results on the Xbox show that they struggle in this area.

Again I think you guys are trying to make more of this than it is.

I suggest going back and waiting for the RSX specs you were mumbling about. Nothing interesting to see here.

 

[a688]

THese games for the 360 look alright to me if i wanted to be spec savvy and picky so lets be picky at the sametime. Why is it so close to launch to the 360 that Sony's press confrence videos and TGS showing has blown the 360 out the water so far.

So movies are better looking than actual games? Granted it's your opinion but horribly baised.

Another nit pik can be th eonline set up of PD0, 32 players.. come on now this is supposed to be 64 players around everything Nex Gen since were ut doing PC's for a few months anyway at least. I admit I am not tech savvy either but some things are obvious.

In otherwords you admit you have no idea what you are talking about. Honda sux, Honda has a v12 in their F1 car but not one in their civic. I'm not a mechanic but its obvious they should just put the v12 in the civic.

...I am more impressed with the PS3 scrrens and games then I am of these launch titles for the 360 andI personally dont want to buy a new system for the same old racing games but with realistic graphics (oh that inside of that car lookk nice )

Woah, since when is the PS3 the ultimate new game franchise machine. Hint both systems will have the same old racing games but with realistic graphics. GT5 anyone, give me a break.

We've seen a lot more from Sony's camp and were not even sure if there releasing at all andonly a handful of ok looking games from MS and launch for them is around the corner, Sony is just waiting in my opinion to counter X05 with Playable PS3 games and a Jan.- Mar. launch window in all regions by fall 06. Expect a lot of 1st party launch games from SOny like you never seen before, oh and MAdden is another reason but i'll only by Madden if the gameplay is the way it should be physically.

A lot more from sony compared to MS? Sony has released a lot LESS than MS has so far. Hell, Sony's PS3 thingy is in Feb, a Jan launch is impossible. Your comment about Madden is crazy and ignorant.

Hope you like your flames.

 

[mckmas8808]

Itagaki has seen the things and based on his troubles with the PS2--and his prowess with the Xbox--I tend to believe Xbox 360 is better for him. I think they had problems on the PS2 and probably are not savvy enough for the PS3. That says more about them than the machine IMO.

So why doesn't he just say, "For me and my team the X360 is the most powerful." Just like the quote that he made about the PS2. He should have said, "For me and my team we have done the most that we can do with the hardware, but it can do better with more tools". If you really knew Itagaki you would know there's reasons why he doesn't answer like that though.

Yet how are you to know that this is not what is most powerful for him? The trouble they had on the PS2 and the end results on the Xbox show that they struggle in this area.

Again I think you guys are trying to make more of this than it is.

No Acert I think you are trying to make more out of this than it is. He rarely mentions that his opinoins are for him and his team. He seems to take a more general look at things. Notice the lack of the words like for me, my team, my guys, for us, my development squad, etc.

 

[valioso]

So why doesn't he just say, "For me and my team the X360 is the most powerful."

but he did didn't he? they asked him, what he thought, and he said that it was his personal opinion that the 360 offered him a better overall package for what he wants to accomplish.

why are people trying to read so much into this?

 

[scooby_dooby]

They read so much into it because they need to rationalize comments that go against somethig they already consider fact, PS3 is much more powerful than X360. Anything that doesn't match the preconvieved conclusion must be torn appart, twisted and re-arranged in order to fit this reality.

You could EASILY interpret his comments as nothing more than "PS3 is more powerful on paper, but X360 has more useable power" - isn't that a much simpler and more REALISTIC representation of what he was trying to say.

That's basically what he's saying when he mentions middleware etc, take it for what it is, his opinion. He didn't say X360 is easier, he said it's the most powerful, quit trying to twist things to fit your reality (mkcmass)

You're basically trying to twist his comments into "My team are crap coders so they can't handle the PS3" when what he actually SAID was the X360 was the most powerful console...PERIOD.

IMHO - he's too egocentric to admit the PS3 is more powerful even if it were the case, but that's just a wild guess. Basically we should take him at face value, he's not a MS employee, and he doesn't have anything to gain by LYING.

 

[EndR]

The thing I find amusing is that several devs are saying X is better than Y or Y is better than X. Apparently, between 360 and PS3, there isn´t that much difference powerwise and also, they seem to have strengths (and weakness) that the other have (or don´t have), therefore are devs saying stuff like "360 is better" or "PS3 is better".

Maybe.. next gen, when talking about "power" of a console, you also have to include the "middleware, support etc etc" of each company.. meaing.. you have to look at "the whole package".

my 2 swedish crowns..

 

[mckmas8808]

They read so much into it because they need to rationalize comments that go against somethig they already consider fact, PS3 is much more powerful than X360. Anything that doesn't match the preconvieved conclusion must be torn appart, twisted and re-arranged in order to fit this reality

What are you talking about? I don't have to rationalize anything. If the Xbox360 is better than it's better. I'm already used to that now with the Xbox being more powerful than the PS2 so...

I'm not the one adding additional words to his sentences. I'm not the one throwing in that he mentioned "just for him" or "only for me and my team". He never said that point blank. I can tell you what he did say in the past. He said in the past that he maxed the PS2. Well we know that he never did that. I not the one adding words to his quotes to rationalize some preconvieved conclusion.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

IMHO - he's too egocentric to admit the PS3 is more powerful even if it were the case, but that's just a wild guess. Basically we should take him at face value, he's not a MS employee, and he doesn't have anything to gain by LYING.

He could be lying to save face. That is, he's said he only writes to the most powerful hardware, he's developing on XB360 and not PS3, and if he were to admit the PS3 is more powerful that's his crazy boasts thrown back in his face.

Not that I'm saying that's what's actually happened. Just that he has got a reason to lie as it were. In this really pointless thread that's going absolutely nowhere as people keep regurgitating their opinions over and over in the surefire knowledge not one person is going to budge so much as an inch in their interpretation...

 

[valioso]

I'm not the one adding additional words to his sentences. I'm not the one throwing in that he mentioned "just for him" or "only for me and my team". He never said that point blank.

well they asked him for his opinion.. is assumed that his answer is his personal opinion, you don't have to specify, well I believe....