Israel says killing Arafat an option

[Legion]

How would the Palestinians get rid of all those illegal settlements when they're heavily protected by Israel?

What is the nature of this question? If they wanting to rid themselves of these shanty towns i am sure israel would help them.

 

[Accord1999]

The occupation of the West Bank is illegal as clearly defined by UN resolutions. Therefore, any colonization attempt in the occupied lands is illegal and is really a war crime. As well, any attacks on these colonies and their colonists are fully legitimate.

 

[Legion]

The occupation of the West Bank is illegal as clearly defined by UN resolutions.

So, if the UN decided the US was illegaly occupying land which was rightfully own by the american indians or the UK was occupying land which was rightfully owned by Rome the US and or UK would be in violation of UN resolution? What a travesty that would be.

Many nations are in violation of UN resolutions including Iraq, China, North Korea, Rwanda, etc etc which no one wants to do anything about. When is the UN planing to do something about any of this? Seems to be a rather arbitrary ruling.

Therefore, any colonization attempt in the occupied lands is illegal and is really a war crime. As well, any attacks on these colonies and their colonists are fully legitimate.

So by the judgement of the UN by criteria many of the nations of the UN would fail historically themselves Israel is criminal? Do you think Israel won't defend itself against these supposed legitimate terrorist attacks. That is what you are saying correct? That the palis have every right to attack israel on land they don't even own? What kind of assinine reasoning is this?

 

[Natoma]

Israel agreed to not create any further settlements under the Oslo Peace Accords signed in the 90s. They have since created new settlements under the guise of "outposts" for military officials.

Again, both sides are guilty of atrocities against one another and both sides are guilty of breaking their agreements in order to end the bloodshed. However, it sounds to me Legion that you believe Israel is completely absolved of anything and everything they do as it is a response to terrorism from the evil palestinians. Maybe I've misconstrued your position on this, but that's the way it seems atm.

 

[Legion]

Israel agreed to not create any further settlements under the Oslo Peace Accords signed in the 90s. They have since created new settlements under the guise of "outposts" for military officials.

To be fair Natoma the Oslo accords failed. Why should israel be held to the oslo accords when the palis aren't being held to the standards theirin? That would almost be as absurd as holding the US to some non-weapons proliferation agreement made with Russia as the former soviet union.

Again, both sides are guilty of atrocities against one another and both sides are guilty of breaking their agreements in order to end the bloodshed.

I wouldn't even begin to try and draw a line of moral equivalency between Israel and the Arab nations. Much of what the arab nations have done to Israel accounts of their problems they suffer today. Isreal isn't against palistinian citizenship. Reluctancy of Israel to recognize a palistinian state appears to come from the overall behavior of the arab nations over the last 60 years or so. Israel has been willing in many cases to make agreements with the arab nations most of which begin to break down when palistinian terrorist terror bomb children in buses.

However, it sounds to me Legion that you believe Israel is completely absolved of anything and everything they do as it is a response to terrorism from the evil palestinians.

No i do not think that though i much of what has been brought against them has been terribly inaccurate and one sided.

Maybe I've misconstrued your position on this, but that's the way it seems atm.

I think its rather clear that the achieving peace with the palestinians will be difficult and that much of the media coming out against israel is nothing more than propaganda.

 

[Brimstone]

Israel has nothing to loose by "removing" (exile or killing) Arafat.

I don't think Arafat is the problem. The poverty of the people Arafat represents is. You remove Arafat you just get someone else representing angry people living in squalor.

Continuing to cut off all terrorist money flowing out of countries like Saudi Arabia and Iran will pay off in the long run. Not all of it will get stopped, but funding won't be anywhere near as high a pre-invasion of Iraq. The U.S. will slowly build up the Iraqi infastructure and gain mindshare that the west is not just about explotation of natural resources.

Israel just needs to exercise patience.

 

[Legion]

Israel has nothing to loose by "removing" (exile or killing) Arafat.

I don't think Arafat is the problem. The poverty of the people Arafat represents is.

There are plenty of poor people around the world. Very few of the them are terror bombing those they perceive as wealthy or at the root of their poverty. Kind of communist-esque in a way if you think about it. Arafat manipulates the ignorant and emotional amongst his flock to do Hamas' bidding. He is a propaganda whore who incites violence. He is only part of the overall problem.

I think the real problem is the the palestinian value system. Being poor is no valid reason to murder innocent people for the mistakes of your ancestors or theirs.

Lets face it, simply giving the palis a nation doesn't entitle them to wealth (ie other arab nations) at all. This is just another propaganda tool used to manipulate them.

You remove Arafat you just get someone else representing angry people living in squalor.

Again how telling of their value system and lack over all resolve to take responsibility of their own actions.

Continuing to cut off all terrorist money flowing out of countries like Saudi Arabia and Iran will pay off in the long run.

Yes, but that would first require the UN to recognize Hamas' involvement in terrorism in Israel as well as the over all involvement terrorism has in pali culture. i am amazed by the lack of real interest the UN has had in stopping middle eastern terrorism in the past.

Not all of it will get stopped, but funding won't be anywhere near as high a pre-invasion of Iraq. The U.S. will slowly build up the Iraqi infastructure and gain mindshare that the west is not just about explotation of natural resources.

I don't have such high hopes honestly. I believe that Iraq will just sink back into the quagmire of exploitation once again perhaps decades in the future with the US taking most of the blame for attempting to do what others were to apathetic to attempt.

Israel just needs to exercise patience.

They have as well as common sense.

 

[zurich]

Legion,

You sure like to call Afafat a terrorisit. Have you forgotten that Sharon himself is a War Criminal?

Well we know what you have to say about it, this is what the world had to say:

http://www.islamonline.net/English/News/2003-09/12/article01.shtml

China Warns Israel

In Beijing, China Friday, September 12, warned Israel against expelling Arafat, saying it will escalate tensions in the Middle East and hinder the peace process.

"President Arafat is the legitimate leader elected by the Palestinian people through elections," said the foreign ministry in a statement.

"The Israeli government's expelling of Yasser Arafat will further escalate tensions between Israel and Palestine and will not help the Middle East peace process.

"We hope Israel acts with caution and avoids a further deterioration of the situation."

“Grave Errorâ€: French FM



"Yasser Arafat is the legitimate authority of the Palestinian Authority,†Chirac

In Paris, French Foreign Minister Dominique de Villepin warned late Thursday that Israel's declared intention to expel Arafat would be a "grave error" which would lead to serious consequences for the region.

"The decision of the Israeli security cabinet to envisage Arafat's expulsion (would be) an action so extreme that it would be a grave error," he said in a statement released hours after the decision.

De Villepin called on Sharon to rescind the decision "in light of the consequences which (the expulsion) could not fail to have for the Palestinian territories, Israel and the whole region", as well as at the international level.

France once again stressed the need for all parties to adhere to the internationally backed "roadmap" to finding a peace settlement in the Middle East conflict, he said.

“Serious†Mistake: Russia

In Moscow, Russia said Friday that Israel’s move to expel Arafat would be a "serious political mistake with the most negative consequences".

"Such a step would remove the possibility of peacefully resolving the Israeli-Palestinian crisis and would lead to an uncontrollable chain of events in the worst case scenario," said a statement from Russia's foreign ministry.

"Only through cooperation can we end the terror and the other manifestations of violence and return to the roadmap," the statement said.

Russia, along with the European Union, United Nations and the United States, are the co-authors of the peace roadmap for the region, which sees an independent Palestinian state alongside a secure Israel by 2005.

Malaysia Denounces Israel's Threat

In harsher words, Malaysia Friday denounced Israel's threat to expel Arafat and called on world powers to prevent it from being carried out.

"Such a move will not possibly help to attain peace because Israel appears to be increasingly arrogant in its actions," Foreign Minister Syed Hamid Albar said.

Malaysia hoped the United States, Russia, the United Nations and the European Union would convene a meeting to stop Israel from proceeding with the move, the official Bernama news agency reported.

"We will be getting together, or writing a letter to the United Nations to see that stronger action is taken in order to prevent continuous acts of violence and deterrence of the peace process," Syed Hamid was quoted as saying.

Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad, who has headed this mainly-Muslim Southeast Asian nation for the past 22 years, is a strong supporter of the Palestinians and the country has no diplomatic relations with Israel.

Australia

Australian Foreign Minister Alexander Downer said Friday that Israel will turn Arafat into a "martyr" if it carries out its threat to expel the Palestinian leader from his Ramallah headquarters.

Downer said Australia would be expressing its opposition to the decision in principle to expel Arafat.

"To remove Yasser Arafat altogether would, I think, make him a martyr," Mr Downer told national radio. "I think the Israelis would be well advised to leave Yasser Arafat in place and to deal as best they possibly can with the new Palestinian prime minister, who is well known to us and is a very good man."

Palestinian prime minister-designate Ahmed Qorei threatened to call off efforts to form a new government after the Israeli decision. Arafat has been confined to his headquarters in the West Bank town of Ramallah for the last 20 months.

Downer criticized Arafat for failing to disarm what he called “terror groups†– in reference to armed Palestinian groups resisting the Israeli occupation forces - in the Palestinian territories and to stop bombings in Israel.

"I think Yasser Arafat has had a great opportunity to become a truly great historical figure in being one of those who delivered peace to the Middle East," Downer said. "He has not taken up that opportunity."

Canada Concerned

Canada also said Thursday that Israel's threat to remove Arafat could destabilize peace efforts.

"Canada is concerned that expelling Yasser Arafat would not benefit the peace process and have a negative impact on constructive Palestinian interlocutors," Foreign Minister Bill Graham's spokeswoman, Marie-Christine Lilkoff, said.

"We are concerned that the decision to expel Yasser Arafat could result in unforeseen consequences," she said.

Lilkoff said Graham had conveyed these concerns to Israeli immigration minister Tzipi Livni during a call Thursday.

"We are aware of the reports that the Israeli Security Cabinet has agreed in principle to expel Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat and that the Israeli army has been asked to draw up a plan for his expulsion.

"It is not yet clear what this means in practice."

http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/holnus/03141603.htm

S. Africa condemns Israel

Durban, Sept. 14. (PTI): South Africa has condemned Israel for its threat to expel Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat from the West Bank and for conducting a policy of assassination of suspected Palestinian militants.

"We are heading for a serious crisis unless immediate measures are taken to stabilise the situation," South African Deputy Foreign Minister Aziz Pahad said in a statement here.

"Advocating removing or killing the democratically elected president of a people, as suggested by Israeli Minister of Defence Shaul Mofaz, is utterly unacceptable and must be condemned in the strongest possible terms," he said.

"Furthermore, the decision to continue and intensify the practice of extra-judicial killings and the assassination of suspected militants is in direct contravention of international law. We join the international community in its condemnation of such practices," Pahad said.

Calling for restraint by the Palestinians, he said, "the South African Government also calls on the Palestinian people not to use violence as a means to acquire peace. Violence as a tactic or strategy will never deliver the peace so dearly sought by the Israeli and Palestinian people," he added.

Then there's THIS, which is really just great:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...p;u=/afp/20030913/ts_afp/mideast_030913101650

"When it comes to defending a terrorist like Yasser Arafat the world mobilises, but when women and children are killed in the streets of Israel, the UN Security Council is silent -- it's hypocrisy," a senior Israeli official told AFP on condition of anonymity Saturday.

Where to start?

Well, its hyprocritical that Israel cries wolf over the 'terrorist' Yassar Arafat when Sharon himself is a war criminal. It's also hypocritical that Israel screams at the UN Security Council when ISRAEL ITSELF is in violation of more UNSC resolutions than any other country in the world. Also pretty funny that they play the sympathy card on "Isreali women and children" being killed, when since 1993, 850 Israelis have died, versus 3000 Palestinians.

Funny how the rest of the world can see that Israel is an arrogant, privilaged nation who has received atleast $84 billion in US aid illegaly (it is against US law to give military aid to nation's that break UN resolutions), but due to your religion and background, I wouldn't expect you to see that anyhow.

 

[Fred]

Except Sharon has not been indicted as a war criminal. And the UN is hopelessly Palestinian biased, since there is a plurality of islamic countries in its ranks.

Cosmo said they were 2 tribes fighting over a useless piece of desert.

That would have been true 50 years ago, when the Palestinians were the more populated group there . Today, its more like an oasis, thanks to the wonderful accomplishments the Jews managed to perform. They also contribute to the global community far more than any of their neighbours, in terms of the arts, sciences and the like.

If ever there was one country that deserved to be legitimized once and for all by merit of their accolades, surely it would have to be Israel.

 

[Accord1999]

That would have been true 50 years ago, when the Palestinians were the more populated group there . Today, its more like an oasis, thanks to the wonderful accomplishments the Jews managed to perform.

Yes, by controlling the majority of the water supply in the region, including consuming ~80% of the Palestinian ground water supply. And its no wonder there have been grave concerns raised about a pending environmental disaster due to inadequate fresh water.

They also contribute to the global community far more than any of their neighbours, in terms of the arts, sciences and the like.

I suppose one could have said similar things about Germany in the time frame of 1900-1945.

 

[pax]

Actually agriculture was well established under the turks long before Israel took over. Pretty much a myth that they turned desert into oasis tho they did increase the agriculture beyond what the aquifer and natural water supply can furnish.

The european israelis brought their high water consumption with them when they came from europe.

Arafat is needed by Israel as a whippin boy in order to keep deferring the removal of their settlements. Exiled he'll still be blamed for terrorism (which has long developped social roots and is beyond easy political solutions for now) like he was when he WAS in exile.

In fact if arafat died naturally and the terrorism continued Im sure the israeli gov would bend over backwards to find another finger to point to.

I find it funny a man this old, frail, in the public eye and under extreme scrutiny could still order attacks and not be immediately found guilty of such.

 

[Fred]

Having been to Israel, one of the more amusing things is to wander around the Israel-Jordan or Israel-Egypt borders.

Theres literally a 100m stretch where it goes from grass, to desert as far as the eyes can see.

And yes, Germany in that stretch was a pinnacle of civilization, it was only after they attacked the rest of civilization that there was a problem. With Israel pretty much all their neighbours attacked them, so the situation is a little reversed.

 

[Legion]

Legion,

You sure like to call Afafat a terrorisit. Have you forgotten that Sharon himself is a War Criminal?

Well, last i checked he was acquited of charges against him not to mention the lack of formal indictments.

Yes i do like to call Arafat a terrorist because he is a terrorist and sharon is not.

Well we know what you have to say about it, this is what the world had to say:

Is this a popularity contest? Does popularity decide guilt?


http://www.islamonline.net/English/News/2003-09/12/article01.shtml

China Warns Israel

China warns some one concerning human mistreatment?

In Beijing, China Friday, September 12, warned Israel against expelling Arafat, saying it will escalate tensions in the Middle East and hinder the peace process.

You have got to be kidding me. Maybe they should worry about the sorry state of affairs in china before they ridicule other.

"President Arafat is the legitimate leader elected by the Palestinian people through elections," said the foreign ministry in a statement.

He is the self appointed leader and a known terrorist sympathizer/organizer.

"The Israeli government's expelling of Yasser Arafat will further escalate tensions between Israel and Palestine and will not help the Middle East peace process.

Like they have any capacity to judge such things. I remember soemtime ago when they have stree protests they mowed down with tanks. China sure is a good example of working through the peace process.

And what about poor Chinese/Taiwanese relations? What about China selling missle technology to North Korea?

Zurich China is not a good example of how anyone but china thinks.

"Yasser Arafat is the legitimate authority of the Palestinian Authority,†Chirac

Again this is incorrect. He was self appointed and is a terrorist sympathizer/organizer.

In Paris, French Foreign Minister Dominique de Villepin warned late Thursday that Israel's declared intention to expel Arafat would be a "grave error" which would lead to serious consequences for the region.

Is this a threat?

"The decision of the Israeli security cabinet to envisage Arafat's expulsion (would be) an action so extreme that it would be a grave error," he said in a statement released hours after the decision.

So by the same reasoning trying for peace with people whom might encourage era of grave danger if angered should be consider sound by any rational human being?

De Villepin called on Sharon to rescind the decision "in light of the consequences which (the expulsion) could not fail to have for the Palestinian territories, Israel and the whole region", as well as at the international level.

More opinions. Yes more than likely there would be a terrorist reaction to the outsting of Arafat. Another great example of the behavior of the kind of people Israel is dealing with.

France once again stressed the need for all parties to adhere to the internationally backed "roadmap" to finding a peace settlement in the Middle East conflict, he said.

Arafat is a terrorist supporting working to undermine peace in the middle east. For the "roadmap" to work he needs to go.

“Serious†Mistake: Russia

In Moscow, Russia said Friday that Israel’s move to expel Arafat would be a "serious political mistake with the most negative consequences".

Zurich does repeating this same line over and over again from several news sources some how constitute your perception of the world's opinion?

"Such a step would remove the possibility of peacefully resolving the Israeli-Palestinian crisis and would lead to an uncontrollable chain of events in the worst case scenario," said a statement from Russia's foreign ministry.

In other words the palis could get rowdy and terror bomb the isrealis. Again, what is the purpose in working for peace with people who want to kill you?

"Only through cooperation can we end the terror and the other manifestations of violence and return to the roadmap," the statement said.

lol how are you going to have cooperation with a terrorist supporting who wants israel destroyed?

Russia, along with the European Union, United Nations and the United States, are the co-authors of the peace roadmap for the region, which sees an independent Palestinian state alongside a secure Israel by 2005.

Right. We'll see how that rests with Hamas.

Malaysia Denounces Israel's Threat

Malaysia? Next we'll be asking Kim of NK what he thinks...or even better Molosovich of Kosovo.

In harsher words, Malaysia Friday denounced Israel's threat to expel Arafat and called on world powers to prevent it from being carried out.

They can say this. Such is predictable. They aren't dealing with the terrorist threat of Hamas as isreal is.

"Such a move will not possibly help to attain peace because Israel appears to be increasingly arrogant in its actions," Foreign Minister Syed Hamid Albar said.

I wonder what the Libian's think ...

Malaysia hoped the United States, Russia, the United Nations and the European Union would convene a meeting to stop Israel from proceeding with the move, the official Bernama news agency reported.

The man is a terrorist supporter and needs to be dealt with as such. If the palis are truly working towards peace they need to give up supporting people like Arafat.

"We will be getting together, or writing a letter to the United Nations to see that stronger action is taken in order to prevent continuous acts of violence and deterrence of the peace process," Syed Hamid was quoted as saying.

I love this one this commentary! Does he forget who one of the leader of Hamas is?

Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad, who has headed this mainly-Muslim Southeast Asian nation for the past 22 years, is a strong supporter of the Palestinians and the country has no diplomatic relations with Israel.

Australia

Australian Foreign Minister Alexander Downer said Friday that Israel will turn Arafat into a "martyr" if it carries out its threat to expel the Palestinian leader from his Ramallah headquarters.

I suppose Arafat is just as bad as the terrorist leader that would be appointed after arafat.

Downer said Australia would be expressing its opposition to the decision in principle to expel Arafat.

"To remove Yasser Arafat altogether would, I think, make him a martyr," Mr Downer told national radio. "I think the Israelis would be well advised to leave Yasser Arafat in place and to deal as best they possibly can with the new Palestinian prime minister, who is well known to us and is a very good man."

A very good man? You have to be kidding me. Zurich do you even deny this man is a terrorist supporter if not a full blown terrorist himself?

Palestinian prime minister-designate Ahmed Qorei threatened to call off efforts to form a new government after the Israeli decision. Arafat has been confined to his headquarters in the West Bank town of Ramallah for the last 20 months.

just like they have everytime there have been peace talks.

Downer criticized Arafat for failing to disarm what he called “terror groups†– in reference to armed Palestinian groups resisting the Israeli occupation forces - in the Palestinian territories and to stop bombings in Israel.

Gee i wonder why Arafat would so easily forget?

"I think Yasser Arafat has had a great opportunity to become a truly great historical figure in being one of those who delivered peace to the Middle East," Downer said. "He has not taken up that opportunity."

Wonder why. He already has a nobel peace prize .

Canada Concerned

Canada also said Thursday that Israel's threat to remove Arafat could destabilize peace efforts.

Please. You'd have to be blind, death and stupid to think peace will be achieved anytime soon.

"Canada is concerned that expelling Yasser Arafat would not benefit the peace process and have a negative impact on constructive Palestinian interlocutors," Foreign Minister Bill Graham's spokeswoman, Marie-Christine Lilkoff, said.

Put allowing a proterrorist leader remain in power is propeace......

"We are concerned that the decision to expel Yasser Arafat could result in unforeseen consequences," she said.

You mean the palis may kill innocent israelis. This supposedly peaceful people Israel is trying to deal with.

Lilkoff said Graham had conveyed these concerns to Israeli immigration minister Tzipi Livni during a call Thursday.

I am sure Livni would have appreciated more with a grain of salt.

"We are aware of the reports that the Israeli Security Cabinet has agreed in principle to expel Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat and that the Israeli army has been asked to draw up a plan for his expulsion.

He is a terrorist leader. He should receive worse.

"It is not yet clear what this means in practice."

But everyone is jumping the gun.

http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/holnus/03141603.htm

S. Africa condemns Israel

I condemn their behavior over the last 40 years.

Durban, Sept. 14. (PTI): South Africa has condemned Israel for its threat to expel Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat from the West Bank and for conducting a policy of assassination of suspected Palestinian militants.

Really? Wow.

"We are heading for a serious crisis unless immediate measures are taken to stabilise the situation," South African Deputy Foreign Minister Aziz Pahad said in a statement here.

We are heading a serious crisis? Who is we? I think Isreal is taking measures.

"Advocating removing or killing the democratically elected president of a people,

and a mighty fine terrorist supporter to boot.

as suggested by Israeli Minister of Defence Shaul Mofaz, is utterly unacceptable and must be condemned in the strongest possible terms," he said.

Well gee wiz guys. Didn't know it bothered you so much.

"Furthermore, the decision to continue and intensify the practice of extra-judicial killings and the assassination of suspected militants is in direct contravention of international law.

WTF? Now that is debatable.

We join the international community in its condemnation of such practices," Pahad said.

even in self-defense? I would have to disagree with that.

Calling for restraint by the Palestinians, he said, "the South African Government also calls on the Palestinian people not to use violence as a means to acquire peace. Violence as a tactic or strategy will never deliver the peace so dearly sought by the Israeli and Palestinian people," he added.

Fat chance of that.

Then there's THIS, which is really just great:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...p;u=/afp/20030913/ts_afp/mideast_030913101650

Really? here one that is good too!

http://debka.com/article.php?aid=565

This is a bit unusual as it describes some of the Israeli feelings on the issue unlike the articles you have posted.

"When it comes to defending a terrorist like Yasser Arafat the world mobilises, but when women and children are killed in the streets of Israel, the UN Security Council is silent -- it's hypocrisy," a senior Israeli official told AFP on condition of anonymity Saturday.

Where to start?

how about '48 with the attacks on the Israeli states and the back stabbing of arab nations?

Well, its hyprocritical that Israel cries wolf over the 'terrorist' Yassar Arafat when Sharon himself is a war criminal.

Last i checked Sharon was aquited. Also Arafat continues to fund and support pali terrorism.

It's also hypocritical that Israel screams at the UN Security Council when ISRAEL ITSELF is in violation of more UNSC resolutions than any other country in the world.

They have a right to go to the UN security council, they are being attacked!

How are they in violation of more UNSC resolutions than any other country in the world? What are all of these resolutions? Are they binding or not? Does that some how legitamize pali terrorism? How on earth is this hypocritical?

Also pretty funny that they play the sympathy card on "Isreali women and children" being killed, when since 1993, 850 Israelis have died, versus 3000 Palestinians.

Zurich what is that number bassed off of? What were the samples taken from? What were the causes of death etc? I would imagine those 3000 deaths are directly related to Palestinian conduct if not beefed up by nonrelated deaths.

If the palis had never comitted a single act of terrorism how many of these people would have died?

Funny how the rest of the world can see that Israel is an arrogant, privilaged nation who has received atleast $84 billion in US aid illegaly

How do you receive illegal aid? Explain this one to me.

(it is against US law to give military aid to nation's that break UN resolutions),

I have never heard this futhermore what constitutes "military aid"?

but due to your religion and background, I wouldn't expect you to see that anyhow.

Oh please i could say the same about you. Why is anyone in favor of Israel some how biased or misinformed?

These palistinians wouldn't be in the possition there are today if not for their own choices. No one and i do mean No one makes them kill but themselves. This comes from the lack of respect for human life we seem amongst their ranks. This serves as even more evidence that peace can not be achieved with them until a societal morality overhaul. Zurich it is more than obvious you are to blinded by your ideology to see these facts. The palis have NO ligitimate claims to those lands. By the same reasoning people suggest they have claims i can suggest the real owners of the land are the Bizantine Greeks, the persians, or anyone else who was there a hell of a lot long time before these muslims were.

Btw the way please don't hand me a load of news report bullsh1t and even pretend it represents world opinion.

Zurich would you please tell me what religion i am? I'd like to know. Could you also run that by Vince and see what he thinks?

 

[Legion]

Except Sharon has not been indicted as a war criminal.

And i am left to ask the question why if it is such a clear cut case.

And the UN is hopelessly Palestinian biased, since there is a plurality of islamic countries in its ranks.

undeniably so as is anyone who refuses to igknowledge Arafat is a terrorist.

Cosmo said they were 2 tribes fighting over a useless piece of desert.

Sweden is more culturally significant than Israel. Remember that.

That would have been true 50 years ago, when the Palestinians were the more populated group there . Today, its more like an oasis, thanks to the wonderful accomplishments the Jews managed to perform.

No one will admit this. This also includes the fact that much of the land was owned by absentee Turkish landlords and not the farmers on it. The jews purchased much of the land.

They also contribute to the global community far more than any of their neighbours, in terms of the arts, sciences and the like.

The kind of finacial and moral poverty we see in the palistinians is not unique to them. Anyone who thinks merely giving them a state will change anything is purely deluded.

If ever there was one country that deserved to be legitimized once and for all by merit of their accolades, surely it would have to be Israel.

Its too bad the UN just doesn't agree with that.

 

[L233]

Except Sharon has not been indicted as a war criminal. And the UN is hopelessly Palestinian biased, since there is a plurality of islamic countries in its ranks.

Actually, it's been pretty much USA+Israel vs. rest of the world in the past three or so decades.

 

[Legion]

Except Sharon has not been indicted as a war criminal. And the UN is hopelessly Palestinian biased, since there is a plurality of islamic countries in its ranks.

Actually, it's been pretty much USA+Israel vs. rest of the world in the past three or so decades.

Really? So everyone in Israel and the USA as well as those in the "rest of the world" share similiar opinions by land designation?

Also, i find it humorous how some of these memeber of the "rest of the world" have committed a wide variety of atrocities/UN resolution violations themselves which they so easily overlook.

 

[L233]

Actually agriculture was well established under the turks long before Israel took over. Pretty much a myth that they turned desert into oasis tho they did increase the agriculture beyond what the aquifer and natural water supply can furnish.

That one has been bugging me for quite some time as well. They make it sound like Palestine was some sort of desert wasteland where nothing grew before the Israelis came, which is bullshit. The desert is still desert and the fertile lands have been heavily cultivated for centuries, including irrigation. From olive groves to orange plantations... actually, the Jaffa Orange used to be a Palestinian product before the ethnical cleansings of 1948.

The "Israelis turned the desert green argument" is clearly FUD devised to make people believe that Israelis have in some odd way more a "right" to the land than the Palestinians because they supposedly make better use of it. The desert isn't much greener than it used to be and the part of the land that isn't desert has always been used for agriculture.

 

[L233]

Really? So everyone in Israel and the USA as well as those in the "rest of the world" share similiar opinions by land designation?

I was referring to the votings in the UN.

Also, i find it humorous how some of these memeber of the "rest of the world" have committed a wide variety of atrocities/UN resolution violations themselves which they so easily overlook.

Which has what to do with the topic at hand? Stop distracting.

 

[Legion]

I was referring to the votings in the UN.

Again is that a representation of world opinion?

Which has what to do with the topic at hand? Stop distracting.

Has nothing to do with the topic at hand? It has everything to do with the decidedly arbitrary rulings made against israel. This is not distraction at all. This is a reference to neglect of the UN to inforce these resolution on any other country.

Israel was pronounced a law breaker by a league of lawbreakers. You don't see the validity?

 

[L233]

I was referring to the votings in the UN.

Again is that a representation of world opinion?

Yup. Since the governments represent their respective peoples their votings at the UN represent those peoples.

Has nothing to do with the topic at hand? It has everything to do with the decidedly arbitrary rulings made against israel. This is not distraction at all. This is a reference to neglect of the UN to inforce these resolution on any other country.

The UN neglegted to enforce the resolutions (those that made it past US veto stonewalling) on Israel as well, so I still fail to see you point. Besides, there is nothing arbitrary about the resolutions agains Israel, they are in line with international law.