D
Deleted member 13524
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How about Tegra 2's Geforce ULV, Mali 400MP4, Vivante GC1000 and Videocore IV?
All those have 1GPixels/s in their checklist.
How about Tegra 2's Geforce ULV, Mali 400MP4, Vivante GC1000 and Videocore IV?
All those have 1GPixels/s in their checklist.
SGX54x has two TMUs and therefore a 400M tex/sec base fill rate at 200 MHz.
When comparing to other GPUs with less effective visible surface determination, you could multiply PowerVR's fill rate by a factor of the depth complexity in the scene that they're saved from overdrawing versus the competition in order to get a comparative fill rate figure. IMG obviously uses 2.5x most of the time.
When comparing to other GPUs with less effective visible surface determination, you could multiply PowerVR's fill rate by a factor of the depth complexity in the scene that they're saved from overdrawing versus the competition in order to get a comparative fill rate figure. IMG obviously uses 2.5x most of the time.
IMG isn't the only vendor giving out comparative numbers these days based on their own overdraw savings, which makes the matter even more confusing when you consider to whom everyone is comparing themselves.
What they're all actually doing is comparing themselves to how a basic, naive IMR would operate.
What they're all actually doing is comparing themselves to how a basic, naive IMR would operate.
Tegra 2 only has one TMU, so if nVidia really said that they're lying, or they don't mean texture fill-rate.
Likewise, Ziilabs might not mean texture fillrate either, or it could be with reduced specs like no filtering or even non-perspective correct.
I always thought it had 2? No idea about Tegra2 but for Tegra1 I think they were multiplying raw fill-rate with depth complexity (if anyone remember a "600" and a "650" in the respective model names).
Let's see it measured first; the Mali400MP4 in Exynos (Hardkernel ODROID A) reaches almost 540000 kTexels/s in the texture fetch test and that from 4 TMUs, while the SGX543MP2 with again 4 TMUs and I assume a comparable frequency over 920000 kTexels/s.
Videocore IV is at ~300000: http://www.glbenchmark.com/phonedetails.jsp?benchmark=glpro20&D=Nokia+7610&testgroup=lowlevel
I haven't seen any 1 GPixel/s reference for Tegra2 anywhere and I don't think it even exists, but in any case nowadays you should be able to make a difference out of funky paper specs and real time performance.
http://www.glbenchmark.com/compare....el ODROID-A&D4=Marvell Armada Tablet 720x1280
Notice anything in the texture fetch results?
Finally before you count on paper spec blessings let's see such a thing first in real time. A crappy GPU driver is about enough to spoil the soup.
Okay, maybe it's 2; Arun said 1 before, but I probably should have checked my correspondence with you first. 1 is suspiciously low. Still too for a 1GT/s figure.
IMHO ULP GeForce in Tegra2:
1 Vec4 (FP20) PS ALU
1 Vec4 (FP32) VS ALU
2 TMUs
8 z/stencil
Tablets should be up to 333MHz and smart-phones up to 300MHz.
http://www.glbenchmark.com/compare.jsp?benchmark=glpro20&showhide=true&certified_only=1&D1=Motorola%20Droid%203&D2=Motorola%20ATRIX%204G%20MB860
Same resolution between both devices and I assume a 300MHz for both. Encounting the TBDR advantage the results sound about right to me for a 2 TMU design in Tegra2.
***edit: let's skip the w/ depth complexity marketing stuff. I'd speculate the following:
Mali400MP4 Exynos = 1.1 GTexels/s
ULP GeForce Tegra2 = 666 MTexels/s
SGX540 S5PC11x = 400 MTexels/s
SGX540 OMAP4430 = 614 MTexels/s
SGX543MP2 A5 = 1.1 GTexels/s
If the MaliMP4 has in total 32 z/stencil it could have a similar z/stencil fill-rate with the MP2, assuming similar frequencies.
They claim single cycle 4xMSAA; it doesn't look to more "free" on a single chip Mali400 than on any SGX single chip out there. For 16x MSAA it takes 4 cycles, which obviously comes with a significant performance penalty. If you've got fill-rate to waste you could always combine 4xRGMS with 4xOGSS.
I wouldn't suggest it's even the case with the MP2 and I don't think it's a matter of the amount of the z/stencil units (but would like to stand corrected). The only IMG IP I'm aware of that is capable of single cycle 8xMSAA is the low end OpenVG VGX150. If needed it can take 3 cycles and yield 24xMSAA, but as far as I've understood some details with OpenVG in order for AA to look decent with that kind of content a very high sample amount is necessary. Here it doesn't surprise me at all that Mali has the 16x MSAA option.
So did we ever get some performance numbers?
They just released their Jaguar 3 reference platform featuring:
Press release
They just released their Jaguar 3 reference platform featuring:
- Powered by ZMS-20 or ZMS-40 StemCell processor
- 10.1" and 1280x800 16.7 million colors
- High density 176dpi screen with 176 degree angle of view
- Capacitive touch screen
- Ultra light and thin magnesium casing
- 1GB LP-DDR2 or DDR3 memory options
- HD front facing camera
- 12MP image capture from rear facing camera
- Dual channel Wi-Fi b/g/n
- Bluetooth 2.1+EDR
- GPS, accelerometer, compass and gyroscope
- Stereo speakers
- Dual microphone array for beam-formed noise reduction
- Micro HDMI 1.4 output supporting 1080p60 and 3D stereo
- High Dynamic Range image capture
- Internal NAND (16, 32 and 64GB)
- Micro USB 2.0 port
- MicroSD card slot
- Instantaneous On and extended Sleep function
Press release
ZIILABS UNVEILS THE MOST POWERFUL, 3RD GENERATION JAGUAR3 ANDROID TABLET REFERENCE DESIGNS
Ultra-slim and Ultra-lightweight Android 3.2 10" Reference Tablets Powered by ZiiLABS StemCell ZMS Processors and Designed by Creative
SINGAPORE - 13 September 2011 - ZiiLABS, a pioneering media processor and platforms company (a wholly-owned subsidiary of Creative Technology Ltd), today introduced its JAGUAR3, the most powerful 3rd Generation Android 3.2 tablet series.
JAGUAR3 is a series of ultra-slim, ultra-lightweight and stylish 10.1" tablet reference designs targeted at the OEM markets. With over a decade of designing experience in portable mobile devices, Creative provided the ergonomic and sexy design of this series of JAGUAR3 tablets.
JAGUAR3's superior performance, low power consumption and rich feature set comes from the dual-core 1.5GHz ARM Cortex-A9 based ZMS-20 StemCell Processors. ZMS-20 has another 48 StemCell Processing cores within, which effectively make it into a 50-core processor. These advanced GPU (Graphics Processing Unit) features easily make ZMS-20 the most powerful SoC (system-on-chip) available for tablets today.
When OEM customers are ready to ship their JAGUAR3 tablets, they have the option to easily upgrade it to the next generation ZMS-40 SoC chip which sports a quad-core ARM Cortex-A9 and 96 StemCell Processors. This 100-core 4th Generation tablet solution will be available to OEMs in the next quarter.
The JAGUAR3 tablets can be made so slim and lightweight due to the massive integration of I/O devices and processors within the ZMS-20 and ZMS-40 chips and also the patent-pending power management technologies invented by ZiiLABS. This allows all the components to be compacted into a "granddaughter-board" - a micro-size motherboard measuring only 2.44" x 4.64", with performances that can rival most laptops and yet consuming only about 1 watt of power.
ZiiLABS has amassed over 25 years of experience in 3D graphics, GPU and SoC designs. Under its previous name of 3DLABS, ZiiLABS was the first to introduce the highly advanced and highly prized 3D graphics chip technologies to the PC market in the early '90s. Leveraging on these extensive chip design skills, methodologies, patents and technologies, ZiiLABS is now able to bring these phenomenal technologies with outstanding performance to the tablet market at a miniscule fraction of what they used to cost.
The JAGUAR3 tablet reference designs are far more than the "Reference Design Kits" used in the chip industry. They are a set of comprehensive and complete ready-to-go, quick-to-market Reference Design Kits - from chip, hardware, OS, firmware, software, to IDs (industrial designs) and mechanical designs. They come in different "flavors" to allow OEM customers a variety of choices - from ID, price, performance, weight, thickness and all the way to outright sexiness. All these choices are offered without the OEM having to bear huge R&D costs, exorbitant NRE charges and agonizing design cycle delays.
"The explosive tablet market is pure ruthless in every sense. Even a slight delay in a fast-track 6-month design cycle can be lethal. This is a whole new ballgame where only the fastest can survive," said Sim Wong Hoo, Chairman and CEO of Creative Technology Ltd. "JAGUAR3 allows OEMs to enter this huge explosive market instantly and economically while reducing the risk significantly. It breaks new ground as the most powerful, the lightest, the slimmest, the most complete and lowest cost Android 3.2 tablet reference designs on the market, enabling OEMs to easily ride the wave of the next generation of Android computing."
"If you look into the future of computing through our JAGUAR3 'granddaughter-board', you will realize that the PCs today will look more and more like mainframe computers of yesteryear. With the performance provided by JAGUAR3, tablets will be the mainstream computing devices of tomorrow.
"With the great low cost of our JAGUAR3 reference designs, our partners can manufacture tablets for as low as $100, opening up a world of possibilities in areas such as China's educational market, where resources can be limited and demand for sophisticated learning tools is high. The low cost tablet for China's education market is almost captive as it was the Chinese government's goal since 2007 to provide free textbooks to all school kids in China. Over the past two decades, we have made a huge investment in technology and content in China, where an example can be set for the rest of the world on how a low-cost, high-performance tablet can represent an awe-inspiring learning platform that saves money, saves the environment and enriches the lives of future generations," added Sim.
Dr. Li Hui Qin, President of Creative Knowledge China, who was one of the handful of early pioneers in Chinese computing research said, "Leveraging on our 20 years of experience in Chinese platforms for PCs, we are developing a Chinese platform for Android 3.x and above. This platform will include application suites like eSchoolBag (电子书包) and Digital Briefcase (数字公文包), designed uniquely for China's education and business markets respectively."
"Over the years, Creative Knowledge has developed many highly acclaimed Chinese software and content. Currently, we are actively working with the Chinese educational authorities, textbook publishers and schools in developing their Digital Textbooks and Digital Interactive Classrooms. We are targeting over 200 million kids that will rush to embrace this exciting new medium. As all textbooks are becoming free under China's compulsory education system, the authorities will be very motivated to replace them with lower cost tablets. If Creative and ZiiLABS can help to deliver great tablets at low cost, it will profoundly change the fundamentals of the Chinese education system for generations to come," added Dr Li.
"The JAGUAR3 continues our strategy to deliver groundbreaking platforms that enable our partners to differentiate and win market share in the exciting tablet space," said Hock Leow, President of ZiiLABS. "We are experiencing phenomenal take-up of the platform across a wide range of markets from traditional consumer segments to high-volume verticals in business and education. The educational market in China is just one vertical market that has significant volume potential, and we are excited to unveil the JAGUAR3 as a feature-rich, ready-to-market solution that can be quickly and easily implemented in other markets as well."
With a stylish magnesium case, weighing less than 480g and an ultra-thin 8.1 mm design, the higher end JAGUAR3 solution delivers a vibrant 10.1 inch tablet of 1280 by 800 pixel resolution at 176 pixels per inch, 16.7 million colors, a full viewing angle and a capacitive multi-touch screen experience. At a slightly higher mechanical cost, JAGUAR3 can easily support a super sexy "razor-slim" design of only 7.4 mm. Depending on the battery used, over 10 hours of video playback and web browsing is still possible with such slim designs.
The higher end JAGUAR3 also supports:
A dual camera system of up to 12 Megapixel for rear facing image capture and HD for front facing
Complementing the standard Android offering, a rich suite of software is added to exploit the massive computing power of the ZMS processor, including:
Support for High Dynamic Range images
Easy-to-use 40 Megapixel panoramic photography
ZiiPhoto with intelligent photo browsing and real-time 3D photo effects
Advanced video playback with trick modes (such as rewind play, frame-by-frame advance and reverse)
Dual microphone array for noise-free recording and video conferencing, and
Creative Sound Blaster's famed X-Fi audio effects
The ZMS-20 array of 48 StemCell Processors delivers an unprecedented 1080p High-Profile H.264 and VP8 video playback, immersive OpenGL ES 2.0 3D graphics, HDMI 1.4 output with mirroring and a fully independent dual-screen display (one for the tablet LCD and a different one for the large external HDMI display), Adobe Flash 10.x acceleration and OpenCL programmability. The ZMS-40 with its 96 StemCell Processors can easily double all these benchmarks and provide flexibility to power and accelerate future Android iterations.
Availability and Specifications
The ZiiLABS JAGUAR3 Reference Design Kits are expected to sample to select customers in October 2011. Full specifications are available at www.ziilabs.com
Ultra-slim and Ultra-lightweight Android 3.2 10" Reference Tablets Powered by ZiiLABS StemCell ZMS Processors and Designed by Creative
SINGAPORE - 13 September 2011 - ZiiLABS, a pioneering media processor and platforms company (a wholly-owned subsidiary of Creative Technology Ltd), today introduced its JAGUAR3, the most powerful 3rd Generation Android 3.2 tablet series.
JAGUAR3 is a series of ultra-slim, ultra-lightweight and stylish 10.1" tablet reference designs targeted at the OEM markets. With over a decade of designing experience in portable mobile devices, Creative provided the ergonomic and sexy design of this series of JAGUAR3 tablets.
JAGUAR3's superior performance, low power consumption and rich feature set comes from the dual-core 1.5GHz ARM Cortex-A9 based ZMS-20 StemCell Processors. ZMS-20 has another 48 StemCell Processing cores within, which effectively make it into a 50-core processor. These advanced GPU (Graphics Processing Unit) features easily make ZMS-20 the most powerful SoC (system-on-chip) available for tablets today.
When OEM customers are ready to ship their JAGUAR3 tablets, they have the option to easily upgrade it to the next generation ZMS-40 SoC chip which sports a quad-core ARM Cortex-A9 and 96 StemCell Processors. This 100-core 4th Generation tablet solution will be available to OEMs in the next quarter.
The JAGUAR3 tablets can be made so slim and lightweight due to the massive integration of I/O devices and processors within the ZMS-20 and ZMS-40 chips and also the patent-pending power management technologies invented by ZiiLABS. This allows all the components to be compacted into a "granddaughter-board" - a micro-size motherboard measuring only 2.44" x 4.64", with performances that can rival most laptops and yet consuming only about 1 watt of power.
ZiiLABS has amassed over 25 years of experience in 3D graphics, GPU and SoC designs. Under its previous name of 3DLABS, ZiiLABS was the first to introduce the highly advanced and highly prized 3D graphics chip technologies to the PC market in the early '90s. Leveraging on these extensive chip design skills, methodologies, patents and technologies, ZiiLABS is now able to bring these phenomenal technologies with outstanding performance to the tablet market at a miniscule fraction of what they used to cost.
The JAGUAR3 tablet reference designs are far more than the "Reference Design Kits" used in the chip industry. They are a set of comprehensive and complete ready-to-go, quick-to-market Reference Design Kits - from chip, hardware, OS, firmware, software, to IDs (industrial designs) and mechanical designs. They come in different "flavors" to allow OEM customers a variety of choices - from ID, price, performance, weight, thickness and all the way to outright sexiness. All these choices are offered without the OEM having to bear huge R&D costs, exorbitant NRE charges and agonizing design cycle delays.
"The explosive tablet market is pure ruthless in every sense. Even a slight delay in a fast-track 6-month design cycle can be lethal. This is a whole new ballgame where only the fastest can survive," said Sim Wong Hoo, Chairman and CEO of Creative Technology Ltd. "JAGUAR3 allows OEMs to enter this huge explosive market instantly and economically while reducing the risk significantly. It breaks new ground as the most powerful, the lightest, the slimmest, the most complete and lowest cost Android 3.2 tablet reference designs on the market, enabling OEMs to easily ride the wave of the next generation of Android computing."
"If you look into the future of computing through our JAGUAR3 'granddaughter-board', you will realize that the PCs today will look more and more like mainframe computers of yesteryear. With the performance provided by JAGUAR3, tablets will be the mainstream computing devices of tomorrow.
"With the great low cost of our JAGUAR3 reference designs, our partners can manufacture tablets for as low as $100, opening up a world of possibilities in areas such as China's educational market, where resources can be limited and demand for sophisticated learning tools is high. The low cost tablet for China's education market is almost captive as it was the Chinese government's goal since 2007 to provide free textbooks to all school kids in China. Over the past two decades, we have made a huge investment in technology and content in China, where an example can be set for the rest of the world on how a low-cost, high-performance tablet can represent an awe-inspiring learning platform that saves money, saves the environment and enriches the lives of future generations," added Sim.
Dr. Li Hui Qin, President of Creative Knowledge China, who was one of the handful of early pioneers in Chinese computing research said, "Leveraging on our 20 years of experience in Chinese platforms for PCs, we are developing a Chinese platform for Android 3.x and above. This platform will include application suites like eSchoolBag (电子书包) and Digital Briefcase (数字公文包), designed uniquely for China's education and business markets respectively."
"Over the years, Creative Knowledge has developed many highly acclaimed Chinese software and content. Currently, we are actively working with the Chinese educational authorities, textbook publishers and schools in developing their Digital Textbooks and Digital Interactive Classrooms. We are targeting over 200 million kids that will rush to embrace this exciting new medium. As all textbooks are becoming free under China's compulsory education system, the authorities will be very motivated to replace them with lower cost tablets. If Creative and ZiiLABS can help to deliver great tablets at low cost, it will profoundly change the fundamentals of the Chinese education system for generations to come," added Dr Li.
"The JAGUAR3 continues our strategy to deliver groundbreaking platforms that enable our partners to differentiate and win market share in the exciting tablet space," said Hock Leow, President of ZiiLABS. "We are experiencing phenomenal take-up of the platform across a wide range of markets from traditional consumer segments to high-volume verticals in business and education. The educational market in China is just one vertical market that has significant volume potential, and we are excited to unveil the JAGUAR3 as a feature-rich, ready-to-market solution that can be quickly and easily implemented in other markets as well."
With a stylish magnesium case, weighing less than 480g and an ultra-thin 8.1 mm design, the higher end JAGUAR3 solution delivers a vibrant 10.1 inch tablet of 1280 by 800 pixel resolution at 176 pixels per inch, 16.7 million colors, a full viewing angle and a capacitive multi-touch screen experience. At a slightly higher mechanical cost, JAGUAR3 can easily support a super sexy "razor-slim" design of only 7.4 mm. Depending on the battery used, over 10 hours of video playback and web browsing is still possible with such slim designs.
The higher end JAGUAR3 also supports:
A dual camera system of up to 12 Megapixel for rear facing image capture and HD for front facing
Complementing the standard Android offering, a rich suite of software is added to exploit the massive computing power of the ZMS processor, including:
Support for High Dynamic Range images
Easy-to-use 40 Megapixel panoramic photography
ZiiPhoto with intelligent photo browsing and real-time 3D photo effects
Advanced video playback with trick modes (such as rewind play, frame-by-frame advance and reverse)
Dual microphone array for noise-free recording and video conferencing, and
Creative Sound Blaster's famed X-Fi audio effects
The ZMS-20 array of 48 StemCell Processors delivers an unprecedented 1080p High-Profile H.264 and VP8 video playback, immersive OpenGL ES 2.0 3D graphics, HDMI 1.4 output with mirroring and a fully independent dual-screen display (one for the tablet LCD and a different one for the large external HDMI display), Adobe Flash 10.x acceleration and OpenCL programmability. The ZMS-40 with its 96 StemCell Processors can easily double all these benchmarks and provide flexibility to power and accelerate future Android iterations.
Availability and Specifications
The ZiiLABS JAGUAR3 Reference Design Kits are expected to sample to select customers in October 2011. Full specifications are available at www.ziilabs.com
D
Deleted member 13524
Guest
I guess the OEMs didn't really like the modular approach of the previous reference platform, so they made one with the comms included. Only 3/4G is missing.
Since I don't really care about playing games in a tablet (not until there are decent RTS games for touch interfaces, at least), I'd be all over that tablet's media capabilities, even without knowing the 3D performance beforehand.
What OEMs probably like even less is the state of the company.
It's impressive that Creative has been able to roll these kind of chips with the little amount of R&D they have (~17M/quarter), but it's a hail mary attempt to get relevant again that will probably fail. Their revenue is dropping on low margin products and it's losing bucket loads of money.
With that little amount of R&D, after chip design, there's not much left for SW development, let alone customer design-in support. Nobody in their right mind would start a product on such a shaky foundation.
There are a quite a few impressive fragment scores in the low level results; I wonder if the drivers need some additional work.
french toast
Veteran
Cant find them?! Have been looking forward to this for some time, I wander what it will be like for games, as they cut down the number of cores form the original..ZMS 05 (64 cores)-ZMS 08 (48 cores) surely that points to some included graphics functions lacking form the original..
The original had 24 StemCell units. ZMS-08 had 64, and ZMS-20 - 48, respectively. Newest one has 96 units. I'd venture to guess they kept bumping the throughput per unit, as the original 05's StemCell unit was rated at 8Gflops / 24 = 333Mflops, while 20's StemCell unit is rated at 26Gflops / 48 = 540Mflops. If we assume 08's StemCell units to be of 05's caliber & clock, ZMS-08 is still short of ZMS-20's peak flops (21Gflops vs 26Gflops).
french toast
Veteran
Yes looks like they have just increased the throughput from 05-08 and as someone pointed out above maybe they have included the simd/neon from the coetex a9s??
If you add the performance of those would that make up for the discrepancy you have shown?
Also if they havnt added any extra graphics hardware and simply have just added loads more simple simd arrays then what are the prospects for graphics/games etc?
If you add the performance of those would that make up for the discrepancy you have shown?
Also if they havnt added any extra graphics hardware and simply have just added loads more simple simd arrays then what are the prospects for graphics/games etc?
french toast
Veteran
Also how does these vector processors compare to the ALUS in say adreno 220? are they comparable?
Both units are well-kept trade secrets. One of them is advertised as SIMD, while the other is supposedly vec4 + "complex" scalar op. Also, one can do single- and half-precision floats plus 32bit ints, the other is strictly single-precision floats (at least in older 20x adrenos). But I'm not so sure the ALUs are so interesting on their own, without their respective entourages.
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