jvd said:
You ignore my point that invalidates yours . Right now I have saves from thier last game that are over 10mbs . To expect the saves to decrease while the game complexity and amount of npcs and items increases is stupid .
right online and last i checked not everyone shops online . They go to actual stores too in which the costs are more expensive where 512 meg cards are 50$
Not to mention that this only solves one problem. You ignore the other problem of missing a hardrive for streaming content .
Yet in 2000 we weren't using 1 memory card for one game .
of course u are . You are ignoring all the other things the hdd will be used for in this game . Its great to look at one thing out of ten and say well thats no problem. But your ignoring the other 9 things in that case . IN this one you are ignoring that the hardrive is for more than just saves .
Its not needed for the discusion . Perhaps the dirt cheap ones wont be fast enough . we don't know no need to bring it up .
However you still don't adress the other things the hadrive will be used for . You focus on one part adn think now thats it the case is solved bethesda can do it on the ps3 and your wrong . Save sare only one part of the equation . Once again going by my saves (Which aren't even finished game saves ) on a 256 meg card i can fit 25 saves . On my hardrive i currently have 30 saves . Perhaps some will use only 1 save , others will need 5-10. That is alot of room . just going by the game they made in 2000 .
Let alone all the other things u need the hardrive for and i'm sure they programed it for .The only option you have is to stream it off the memory card . Which brings up speed questions , cost and size .
I really don't want to keep replying in-depth to something so silly. I'm gonna try and keep things brief after this, if I even continue. :?
1. 10M is 1/5 of a 512MB card. My game of Madden 05 on my GC eats half the card for a Dynasty. On the PS2, my Madden 01/02/03 files ate 2-4MB of that 8MB card. And that 8MB card cost $30 for at least the first full year from the US launch. Half a 512MB card ($30) is 256MB. Game save files would have to increase twenty-fold from what you're seeing now...ten-fold from the worst-case we've seen on this board (someone mentioned 45MB files after over 100 hours, or something to that effect).
2. If that's your line of reasoning, then just forget it altogether. Prices ONLINE as of 7/19/05 for a 512MB Compact Flash card is $29.99. The worst case scenario is that retail prices will match that come next Spring. WORST CASE!. If you've been following CF prices, you'll know this. Like I said, my 256MB card cost that same price last year around this time. Capacity has doubled at the same price. And costs don't scale proportionally, so come next year, you should see 512MB cards in the $15-20 range. Don't you think there's a reason Sony chose to support three flash memory standards next year? They are cheap and getting cheaper. It's the smart choice for memory card storage. If a gamer can't go online to buy their card, they will still be able to find a half-gig for the same price as a PS2 memory card at launch in 2000. Argh, why is this frustrating me?
3. I've mentioned streaming being a good use for the HDD a few times now IN THIS THREAD. It's the point I wrapped my last post up with ffs.
4. No, just half a card as I noted with Madden 2001. Go ahead and start a franchise with some roster changes and a player profile. I don't have a PS2 anymore, but it was 2-4MB. I believe it was 4MB though, b/c I remember I wanted to make a custom playbook with custom plays, but balked at the thought of losing almost an entire card. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. Madden ate half a PS2 card in 2003 for sure.
5. I did no such thing. I have said the two things that would make the HDD a necessity are swapping (transfer rate) or downloaded content. Now, if downloading content, that can simply be axed from the feature list...duh. Yes, it cuts something out of the game, but we're talking about technical limitations, which this is not. If it's swapping, they can modify the tracking system, or mandate an HDD. As mentioned though, the HDD in the 360 isn't blazing fast. You'd want seek time more than transfer rate actually, and since you're not gonna be seeing all your NPCs in the game at once, you can *probably* do this through clever indexing. But those are the two reasons you need an HDD, not capacity.
6. The discussion on the first two pages centered on capacity as the hindrance. That's when the discussion centered on save file sizes. All my replies were in relation to this. The first post of yours I replied to looked like this:
jvd said:
The beauty of the game console is that its a self contained unit .
Anything needed for the games should come with it . So far in the life of consoles 2 things have broken this rule . Memory cards and controllers .
Everything else has never had a great attached rate . People are not going to want to buy large memory cards only for one game and having to buy a certian size card .
I've had morrow wind saves of 12 megs . Obviously the more u play the game the bigger it becomes
The second one looked like this:
jvd said:
40$ is fine for 256megs but to require someone to have to buy a 40$ memory card when they can get a 16 meg one for 10$ is going to be hard to do .
Even so needing a memory card of 256 megs for one game is going to be very hard to swallow . Esp a game that should have hundreds of hours of play time posible
Am I the one injecting the capacity argument into this thread? I took your points and replied to them. I am not misreading what you wrote. So don't try and flip the script now that this point has been beaten to a pulp. And don't try and tell me I'm downplaying something, when this was never my argument in the first place.
I uninstalled Morrowind b/c it was boring. A very open-ended game that had great potential and a large scale. It was definitely fun for the first week, but I need direction in a game. I could give a crap if this game never ends up on the PS3, I'll probably have a 360 anyway. I don't give a rip if the PS3 comes with an HDD or not, although I would definitely rate it as a plus. But the fact of the matter is, there's not a very compelling reason for its necessity IN THIS GAME. Now if it needs to do lots of swapping, you'll want the good seek times of a HDD. But is this something that couldn't be accomplished through clever caching and a large memory card? Maybe, maybe not. But there is NO OFFICIAL STATEMENT from Bethesda supporting this silly claim. That's the original crux of the matter, the original point of this whole debate, and the point of all of my posts in this thread. I hate having to debate seemingly pointless shit like this, but this is what it's come to. And I don't want to leave it unfinished looking like the asshole. Sorry, it's not happening. I think my points are very valid, and I have openly acknowledged the reasons you would need a HDD. PEACE.
