The infamous CGI PS3 Trailers - Possible to beat in real-time in 2023?

[davis.anthony]

Following on from a small tangent in Horizon Forbidden West thread I thought I would create a new thread as it's quite an interesting topic.

Given the hardware we have now in 2023 is it possible to match or beat the graphics seen in the infamous CGI trailers that were shown at PS3's 2005 E3 event?

As a reminder here are selection of the most impressive ones:

Killzone 2

Motorstorm

I think in some aspects we have surpassed the Killzone trailer, namely the texture resolution, lighting and geometry but as an over all package I still think we're not quite there yet.

And that Motorstorm trailer, damn, from 40 seconds to 55 seconds it looks so fricking good still

Now, given UE5 and other tools could a next gen only title be built on 2023 hardware that could match or beat these CGI trailers?

What are you thoughts?

 

[Nesh]

I am still dreaming that we will some day experience games so rich with physics and AI behaviors that games will feel equally alive.
It is those two aspects that make these trailers so godly. If we had a static environment with the camera moving around, surely the scenery would have looked good, but not nearly as impressive.
Static detail is either reached or surpassed. Everything else that makes the world dynamic in combination with the static detail is what made these target render demos breathtaking

 

[arandomguy]

In terms of actual dynamic/organic game play (not just a QTE/rail type sequence) or also real time in engine cutscenes?

I am still dreaming that we will some day experience games so rich with physics and AI behaviors that games will feel equally alive.
It is those two aspects that make these trailers so godly. If we had a static environment with the camera moving around, surely the scenery would have looked good, but not nearly as impressive.
Static detail is either reached or surpassed. Everything else that makes the world dynamic in combination with the static detail is what made these target render demos breathtaking

I've always felt the issue was that the CPU side was rather stagnant in the PS3->PS4 transition by comparison which stalled things on that front. In theory my hope with this gen was the large CPU transition by comparison would allow things to push forward more but because of scaling issues we'll need to wait until game design paradigms fully depart from having to accommodate last gen.

In some ways I also wonder if basically generally incentivizing quantity effectively via game length/scope of content is another contributing factor. Eg. a preference for an open world with 40hrs+ main content vs. an open world village with 12hrs+ main content.

 

[Karamazov]

BeamNG Drive would be the closed to Motorstorm CGI for destruction, but still not at the same level, and for the dirt clouds, nothing comes close nowadays in games.

For the Killzone trailer, i think games looks better now on the graphics side of things, even if not technically for everything, but the pace of the trailer is unmatched, everything is fluid and seamless, the sort of things we can only get in realtime cinematics, but not actual gameplay, and that's the hardest thing to reproduce.
One on the "liviest" worlds i know of in videogames is RDR2, but it's much slower paced than that killzone trailer.

 

[davis.anthony]

I am still dreaming that we will some day experience games so rich with physics and AI behaviors that games will feel equally alive.
It is those two aspects that make these trailers so godly. If we had a static environment with the camera moving around, surely the scenery would have looked good, but not nearly as impressive.
Static detail is either reached or surpassed. Everything else that makes the world dynamic in combination with the static detail is what made these target render demos breathtaking

Do you think it's possible to have that on todays hardware or are well still a few years away yet?

 

[Theeoo]

Thanks to the power of PS5's tempest audio, you can now appreciate the full aural experience of the exclamation 'Boosh!' in Haze 2, coming exclusively in 2025.

 

[orangpelupa]

that killzone trailer seems to be designed for 3DTV

 

[Nesh]

Do you think it's possible to have that on todays hardware or are well still a few years away yet?

I dont think we are there yet in terms of effects, AI and physics.

 

[Cyan]

imo, they've been mostly surpassed, specially when it comes to smoothness and texture resolution.

The extra power of the CPUs is being used for 60fps gameplay on most games nowadays, and that's that.

How PS3 gamers felt once they played the actual game after watching the games' videos? That's the question.

 

[Nesh]

imo, they've been mostly surpassed, specially when it comes to smoothness and texture resolution.

The extra power of the CPUs is being used for 60fps gameplay on most games nowadays, and that's that.

How PS3 gamers felt once they played the actual game after watching the games' videos? That's the question.

I dont think there is a PC game or there will be a 30fps game on consoles this gen that will or that have reached they physics and AI suggests mayhem of the trailers. I dont think there is a racing game that is near Motorstorm in static detail either.

If there is we can prove it with gameplay videos.

The Killzone 2 game in some areas it did mimic the feel of the trailer in some areas, and I wish we had more games that blended enemy hit and death animations so well.

The Motorstorm game also captured the essense but just that.

 

[Karamazov]

that one was close

 

[Below2D]

I dont think there is a PC game or there will be a 30fps game on consoles this gen that will or that have reached they physics and AI suggests mayhem of the trailers. I dont think there is a racing game that is near Motorstorm in static detail either.

If there is we can prove it with gameplay videos.

The Killzone 2 game in some areas it did mimic the feel of the trailer in some areas, and I wish we had more games that blended enemy hit and death animations so well.

The Motorstorm game also captured the essense but just that.

What AI? This is scripted as hell and is obvious. The way everything is set up screams pre-rendered.

One of the many reasons it looks so good is how cinematic and visceral it seems but that’s all doctored.

We’ve surpassed those graphics a long time ago.

 

[Nesh]

What AI? This is scripted as hell and is obvious. The way everything is set up screams pre-rendered.

One of the many reasons it looks so good is how cinematic and visceral it seems but that’s all doctored.

We’ve surpassed those graphics a long time ago.

I meant an AI that behaves in real time as convincing as that.
Its obvious the discussion is about whether if we will see an actual game that matches the prerendered trailers. As it was stated earlier what makes these videos so impressive isnt simply the static detail.
Thank you for pointing the obvious.

 

[Below2D]

I meant an AI that behaves in real time as convincing as that.
Its obvious the discussion is about whether if we will see an actual game that matches the prerendered trailers. As it was stated earlier what makes these videos so impressive isnt simply the static detail.
Thank you for pointing the obvious.

Again, nothing is "convincing" because everything is blatantly scripted. A bunch of guys waiting to get shot in front of a railing isn't convincing. You're conflating Hollywoodesque set pieces with realism.

 

[Theeoo]

I don't think the clouds have been matched yet (?).

 

[Nesh]

Again, nothing is "convincing" because everything is blatantly scripted. A bunch of guys waiting to get shot in front of a railing isn't convincing. You're conflating Hollywoodesque set pieces with realism.

Man I think you need to chill

 

[Karamazov]

Would we say the cloudscape quality seen in the KZ2 trailer was reached in HFW new expansion ?

 

[Inuhanyou]

Would we say the cloudscape quality seen in the KZ2 trailer was reached in HFW new expansion ?

Ye

 

[GhostofWar]

That RTX Racer will do it if it ever actually comes out and still looks like the trailer.

 

[JoeJ]

One of the many reasons it looks so good is how cinematic and visceral it seems but that’s all doctored.

Yeah, but sadly not all of such cinematic stuff is available to us during gameplay. If your camera shakes like a headbanging chicken, you'll be more annoyed than immersed. We need a smooth camera to give the player reliable feedback on his input.

Regarding physics, i think that's possible. AI is the harder problem. Scripting won't cut it, but robotic simulation of characters is possible. Working on self balancing locomotion is a hobby of mine, just sadly i don't have much time for that.
The AI becomes very difficult especially on interactions involving multiple characters. Melee combat for example. That's not in reach for me yet, but there is related ML research which really looks good. Not sure how practical this already is, but seems more a matter of research than a requirement on more powerful HW.

After we have this, we would need something like a real time virtual director to come up with funny action for any situation. Basically a system analyzing the player and his current environment and actions, finding opportunities to counteract or assist in amusing ways. Something to fake emergent behavior, but overcoming current limited AI approaches.

Even i'm currently depressed about the state of games, i think the best times lie still in front of us... : )

For gfx, the one thing where we still lack behind is those dirt clouds, which then ideally stick at the surfaces persistently.
Seems not too hard using something like material surface caches, but it's not clear where to draw the line between particles driven by global forces or real fluid sim where particles affect each other.
Full scene fluid simulations seem out of reach, but there might be some clever ways to fake it we have not yet discovered.
Still, i think that's not really important compared to proper character simulations. Imo, the idea to use animation is completely incompatible with the idea to simulate virtual worlds players can affect the way they want.