In response to recent events
- Thread starter Hellbinder
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Hellbinder
Banned
Mulciber, and Reverend
I now officially KNOW TO MUCH!!
I now officially KNOW TO MUCH!!
Ok, I'll bite (as the actress said to the bishop), what's the joke? (We've already gone so off-topic it's not going to matter one iota).martrox said:Whats goin on here? Things have degraded from mine's faster to mine's bigger?.....reminds me of the old joke about why women make terrible carpenters.......
Hellbinder[CE said:
so know I, but the company is different and still I don't keep such big noice about it (anymore.)
I could paint all over the walls pretty amazing stuff about future, but what diffrence that makes? except if something (even if that isn't depending me or the company that I highly respect) goes wrong, there's a lot of not so happy ppl.
all those future products will come out (if they are blessed to come.) without help of us spreading a word a months or even years before launch.
But HellBinder, that you were hyping R300 and also ruining Parhelia launch back in june, so be a man and take that NV30 pre-hype as it comes. you cannot stop it. (as I or anybody else couldn't stop you when you talked like a maniac how sh!t parhelia is and how R300 will and chrush it.)
no offence, but if you bash, be prepared to be bashed.
that's the law of fight and fan boys.Nappe1 said:Hellbinder[CE said:
so know I, but the company is different and still I don't keep such big noice about it (anymore.)
I could paint all over the walls pretty amazing stuff about future, but what diffrence that makes? except if something (even if that isn't depending me or the company that I highly respect) goes wrong, there's a lot of not so happy ppl.
all those future products will come out (if they are blessed to come.) without help of us spreading a word a months or even years before launch.
But HellBinder, that you were hyping R300 and also ruining Parhelia launch back in june, so be a man and take that NV30 pre-hype as it comes. you cannot stop it. (as I or anybody else couldn't stop you when you talked like a maniac how sh!t parhelia is and how R300 will and chrush it.)
no offence, but if you bash, be prepared to be bashed.
Errm, Nappe1. I think you've got the wrong end of the 'stick' there.
(although I don't necessarily disagree with what you're saying
)martrox said:Ya know why women make terrible carpenters???
<man holds up hand with thumb an finger apart about 3 inches>
Because they been told all their lives that this is 6 inches
<drum role>
I was thinking because they haven't had a tool in their hand all of their lives.
My apologies to Althornin. Due to his original comment in this thread, I had confused him with someone else, but I'll be damned if I can remember who I was thinking of now.
"All I had to compare myself to were porn stars, I just figured I was a little above average."
"All I had to compare myself to were porn stars, I just figured I was a little above average."
Hmm, I have read almost every post in this thread (pheeeew that was a lot of work, a perfect morning call on my saterday).
Maybe I can add one remark: Back to the basics:
Kristof, Dave (usa dave): Why did we start this site? We agreed to build a site which deliveres an HONEST view on 3dhardware.
Wavey, John, Rev, why did you join this site? I hope because of the statements above, otherwise you should not be working at b3d.
All the marketing crap or business stuff (as rev called it) is very nice. But I hope we never buy into the marketing stuff and keep this site a technology based site. Please, because in my normal job I already have to talk to hunders of marketing boys and telling how it really is.
And I may be even closer to gaming/3dhardware as many of you would expect, as an webdeveloper.....in my day job.
To make it short:
We are not in it for the money, not in it to get free hardware, we are in it to try to deliver an non-biased/honest view on 3d technology.
BTW Horses are very well shaped, but that does not make them sensible lovers.... (blackadder)
Maybe I can add one remark: Back to the basics:
Kristof, Dave (usa dave): Why did we start this site? We agreed to build a site which deliveres an HONEST view on 3dhardware.
Wavey, John, Rev, why did you join this site? I hope because of the statements above, otherwise you should not be working at b3d.
All the marketing crap or business stuff (as rev called it) is very nice. But I hope we never buy into the marketing stuff and keep this site a technology based site. Please, because in my normal job I already have to talk to hunders of marketing boys and telling how it really is.
And I may be even closer to gaming/3dhardware as many of you would expect, as an webdeveloper.....in my day job.
To make it short:
We are not in it for the money, not in it to get free hardware, we are in it to try to deliver an non-biased/honest view on 3d technology.
BTW Horses are very well shaped, but that does not make them sensible lovers.... (blackadder)
BenSkywalker
Regular
Marco-
From your perspective, which has on a historical basis(although not so much recently as the site hasn't had much direction lately) been directly opposed to nVidia's philosophy. Go back through and reread many of the articles that have been posted over the years and try and say you can't see how nV would find B3D rather extremely biased. I can quote a slew of different examples, a few stand out though-
July 12, 1999
http://www.beyond3d.com/articles/tbuffer/index3_6.php
The advancement of features has been nV's cornerstone in both marketing and design philosophy for at least the last four years. Here they were met with harsh criticism and an obvious refusal to show anything but the negative(during the whole T&L debate Kristof and Dave were given numerous other examples they could use which did not back their anti T&L stance including actual in game examples of which they used none). I don't think this was due to an anti nVidia sentiment but one against the new technology(which they made quite obvious they did not care for). Here it is three years later and almost every game is using static T&L hardware. The thoughts on developers leapfrogging static T&L and heading straight for vertex shaders never materialized, the hardware did end up being useful for many users and yet we didn't hear about it.
There are loads of other examples, 32bit color, large textures etc, this site for many years seemed to be the mouthpiece for non progression of 3D unless it involved fillrate or a move to a deferred renderer. This, as nVidia was the leader for several years in terms of new features, was directly opposed to their strategy in both marketing and engineering terms.
If that was all there was then it may leave some room for question, but there were also the numerous examples pertaining to them inflating others products, an example-
http://www.beyond3d.com/articles/v5_5500_IQ/index3.php
Bias isn't assumed for no reason, and it has been demonstrated in rather blatant fashion on this site a few times over the years- within one paragraph we are told that 3dfx having a level playfield isn't fair? Other times it may have been completely non intentional, but it still is given.
Back when 3dfx was around B3D regularly had articles covering the new features cards had and how good they were. When a new board was introduced by nVidia we had articles about how the new features weren't very good on their boards.
After 3dfx went away, the articles stopped. The last article on a new feature for a video card was late '99 early '00, and that was on the TBuffer(no, I don't consider brief overviews built in to reviews to be close to comparable).
Is this site truly about 3D technololgy? Why no articles about all the new features that nVidia and ATi have introduced in the last two years? Why do they not get the attention that was regularly served to 3dfx?
All of this is on a site level, and that is the perception that is given to the people who read the site. Obviously a lot of things have been going on behind the scenes over the last couple of years, change in leadership and empolyment situations necessitating changes, but on a technical basis which is what this site is known for, your last real article is one discussing the virtues of a technology that failed from a company that failed. Vertex shaders, pixel shaders, would there have been articles up covering this if they had debuted on Rampage? I think that most people would say yes that have read this site for any decent amount of time. If this site is not capable of maintaining its output after the demise of a company that it had always been assumed to be in favor of, what would you assume?
Forget the forums, the platform partisans on them, or the fact that a review in particular is fair. Look at the site as a whole and try and explain how all of the things combined in the content can possibly not bee seen as biased? For the most part I don't think it is aimed at or against one company or another, particularly not anymore, but what B3D built its reputation around in terms of content is extremely slanted in one particular direction and that direction always happened to favor one or two players while going against the others. What should people think?
Do I think that the articles were, overall, honest to what the authors thought at the time? Yes. Do I think they were fair? Absolutely not. Honesty is easy, there are several posters on these boards, particularly as of late(sad when the Console board has the least problems with platform patriots), who could write extensive articles about the extensive lengths of greatness for their company of choice. And they could do it honestly. What is needed is fairness, and in that aspect B3D's history speaks strongly against that being a cornerstone of the site.
I've seen numerous comments on Kristof not having an impact on the site's review content which I think is the truth. If you want to actually demonstrate that B3D isn't biased then why not start posting articles on some of the new technologies the latest boards have and what they can offer gamers? You know, let people know that you still actually enjoy 3D despite 3dfx being gone?
You start publishing articles about new and upcoming technologies involving 3D then you can demonstrate that K doesn't have an influence instead of stating it over and over.
It has been years since I read an article on Beyond3D and learned anything new about 3D, honestly. Make the site about 3D technology first and foremost and you could likely increase your readership while gaining the type of people in the community that is desired. Right now it seems that it is more focused on trying to land the next big preview hardware, and nothing at all to do with an actual interest in 3D.
From your perspective, which has on a historical basis(although not so much recently as the site hasn't had much direction lately) been directly opposed to nVidia's philosophy. Go back through and reread many of the articles that have been posted over the years and try and say you can't see how nV would find B3D rather extremely biased. I can quote a slew of different examples, a few stand out though-
July 12, 1999
http://www.beyond3d.com/articles/tbuffer/index3_6.php
The advancement of features has been nV's cornerstone in both marketing and design philosophy for at least the last four years. Here they were met with harsh criticism and an obvious refusal to show anything but the negative(during the whole T&L debate Kristof and Dave were given numerous other examples they could use which did not back their anti T&L stance including actual in game examples of which they used none). I don't think this was due to an anti nVidia sentiment but one against the new technology(which they made quite obvious they did not care for). Here it is three years later and almost every game is using static T&L hardware. The thoughts on developers leapfrogging static T&L and heading straight for vertex shaders never materialized, the hardware did end up being useful for many users and yet we didn't hear about it.
There are loads of other examples, 32bit color, large textures etc, this site for many years seemed to be the mouthpiece for non progression of 3D unless it involved fillrate or a move to a deferred renderer. This, as nVidia was the leader for several years in terms of new features, was directly opposed to their strategy in both marketing and engineering terms.
If that was all there was then it may leave some room for question, but there were also the numerous examples pertaining to them inflating others products, an example-
http://www.beyond3d.com/articles/v5_5500_IQ/index3.php
Bias isn't assumed for no reason, and it has been demonstrated in rather blatant fashion on this site a few times over the years- within one paragraph we are told that 3dfx having a level playfield isn't fair? Other times it may have been completely non intentional, but it still is given.
Back when 3dfx was around B3D regularly had articles covering the new features cards had and how good they were. When a new board was introduced by nVidia we had articles about how the new features weren't very good on their boards.
After 3dfx went away, the articles stopped. The last article on a new feature for a video card was late '99 early '00, and that was on the TBuffer(no, I don't consider brief overviews built in to reviews to be close to comparable).
Is this site truly about 3D technololgy? Why no articles about all the new features that nVidia and ATi have introduced in the last two years? Why do they not get the attention that was regularly served to 3dfx?
All of this is on a site level, and that is the perception that is given to the people who read the site. Obviously a lot of things have been going on behind the scenes over the last couple of years, change in leadership and empolyment situations necessitating changes, but on a technical basis which is what this site is known for, your last real article is one discussing the virtues of a technology that failed from a company that failed. Vertex shaders, pixel shaders, would there have been articles up covering this if they had debuted on Rampage? I think that most people would say yes that have read this site for any decent amount of time. If this site is not capable of maintaining its output after the demise of a company that it had always been assumed to be in favor of, what would you assume?
Forget the forums, the platform partisans on them, or the fact that a review in particular is fair. Look at the site as a whole and try and explain how all of the things combined in the content can possibly not bee seen as biased? For the most part I don't think it is aimed at or against one company or another, particularly not anymore, but what B3D built its reputation around in terms of content is extremely slanted in one particular direction and that direction always happened to favor one or two players while going against the others. What should people think?
Do I think that the articles were, overall, honest to what the authors thought at the time? Yes. Do I think they were fair? Absolutely not. Honesty is easy, there are several posters on these boards, particularly as of late(sad when the Console board has the least problems with platform patriots), who could write extensive articles about the extensive lengths of greatness for their company of choice. And they could do it honestly. What is needed is fairness, and in that aspect B3D's history speaks strongly against that being a cornerstone of the site.
I've seen numerous comments on Kristof not having an impact on the site's review content which I think is the truth. If you want to actually demonstrate that B3D isn't biased then why not start posting articles on some of the new technologies the latest boards have and what they can offer gamers? You know, let people know that you still actually enjoy 3D despite 3dfx being gone?
You start publishing articles about new and upcoming technologies involving 3D then you can demonstrate that K doesn't have an influence instead of stating it over and over.
It has been years since I read an article on Beyond3D and learned anything new about 3D, honestly. Make the site about 3D technology first and foremost and you could likely increase your readership while gaining the type of people in the community that is desired. Right now it seems that it is more focused on trying to land the next big preview hardware, and nothing at all to do with an actual interest in 3D.
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