In response to recent events

[pascal]

Given this I also understand what is incredibly important for the state of the site, which is why I would rather give up all the hardware previews than have Kristof removed from the site.

Congratulations for your position.

 

[Althornin]

I seriously doubt that NVIDIA is afraid of an unbiased review. In fact, I doubt they're afraid of anything that you or this website is capable of doing to them. What they are trying to avoid is a review that is biased against them. And I for one think they have good reason to be. Althornin, Geek_2002, Doomtrooper, and Hellbinder, the reason you don't see this is because you are a good portion of the cause behind their fears of bias here. Notice that for all the whining there is about a strong "NVIDIot" presence here, there are virtually no comments being made bashing ATI or their products, and certainly nowhere near as many as there are comments from you guys bashing NVIDIA in one way or another.

I really resent being lumped in here just because i posted in this thread not supporting being ANY IHV's PR bitch.
I think if you look at my post history, you'd realize that i do not partake in these ATI/nVidia wars.
So please, dont lump me in with the f@nboys, ok?
It really pisses me off, when i have been most careful to NOT do what you say i do, and you go ahead and lump me in there just because you disagree with my post and the f@nboys agree with it.
Dont blame me for what i havent done.

 

[Deflection]

You know your a fanboy when...

There is thread discussing direction of Beyond3D and it's forums and you keep arguing about whether the NV30 has taped out yet or not.

People think self-policing boards is the way to go?

We'll I don't have a problem with bias. There are plenty of smart biased people here who are able to contribute to threads and let their opinions be known without resorting to constant aggressive bashing/trolling.

However, the person behind Doomtrooper/Hellbinder/Geek is not one of them. I've seen board members point this out to them but it is ignored. What to do in this situation? We'll I thought I would point it out in the hopes of DHG moderating their own posts and hopefully others will support this if they feel the same way.

 

[Malo]

I suggest Revered and B3D turns over all reviews to the regulars at VoodooExtreme forums..

and Rev, why on earth would you ask such ignorant individuals about technicial questions on the NV30???

I have been a regular viewer here at B3D for about 3 years now. I love these forums and the readers technicial knowhow. I can't believe that someone like Nvidia would not give over a samplecard to a group of people so dedicated to supplying a balanced and DETAILED analysis of their next-gen card.

For example, the new R300 is released... virtually all other sites I visit occasionally simply review performance in common benchmark software. Even without a sample card, the collective intelligenece here has supplied far more information than any other site could provide. Other sites provide a simple FPS, whereas you guys explain WHY they get this fps in certain situations.

Maybe this is why Beyond3D has been left out of the loop in so many occasions I can recall. Maybe it is because you wil provide such detail on the selected hardware than may show shortcomings in said item. But in the same case, you also provide the potential strengths of new development, ala Parhelia.

Personally I hope this board continues to function as a meeting ground for objective and intelligent criticism and praise for 3D hardware for years to come. I give my congratulations to all regular posters for providing an extensive and informative explanation of such an exciting and sometimes extremely complex area of computer technology.

Better stop crapping on now and grab another Jimmy...

Kalbaz

 

[GetStuff]

Maybe this is why Beyond3D has been left out of the loop in so many occasions I can recall.

I wonder how much this whole internet tech community really effects their bottom line, especially when the source is a realatively small site like B3D. If I had to guess I would say a small fraction NVIDIA's sales are heavily influenced by what people read on the internet. Think about it.

IMO B3D is the BEST source of information on 3d technology, but getting a small site like B3D review units might not be a top priority (If at all).

I think the notion that a company does not want a unbiased review is kind of silly. Scrutinizing products keeps them in better touch with what the customer is looking for. For example. Do you think we would have catalyst drivers if, well ya know... Same thing with Trilinear Aniso on the R300... Now ATi has a product that people will love even more perhaps in part because of opinions expressed on the internet (I'm sure they read, regardless of how little or much it effects sales), and that should have a positive effect on ATi's sales.

IMO negative reviews are just as much of a good thing as they are a bad thing... Misinformation on the other hand sucks...

Either way the NVIDIA and ATi cheerleaders (You know who you are) will continue to criticize negative GF4 and R300 reviews, misinformation or not. It just sucks that they seem to have the loudest, most annoying voices.

 

[demalion]

You know your a <bleep> when...

There is thread discussing direction of Beyond3D and it's forums and you keep arguing about whether the NV30 has taped out yet or not.

The "person in question", as if there is any subtlety to it, was responding to the label of that swedish swear word, and referring to an example thread that he/she felt represented why the label is incorrect.

People think self-policing boards is the way to go?

Yes, but note:

When the community ignores trolls, when they *gently* and/or *respectfully* correct misunderstandings or fallacies in posts with facts, knowledge, and civil debate (yes, it really is ok to agree to disagree), people learn, community grows, and it is sustainable. Mods can't be everywhere at once, and heavy- handed modding encourages the worst of the trolls to try to subvert the system in any way they can. The larger the community gets, the more the community needs to help police itself, with mods there to deal with the worst cases.

Contrast this with your approach here. Whether your comments are accurate or not, your approach just encourages thread degeneration. With such an indirect attack (not naming names), and with the attack phrased without any substantion (the phrase "You know you are...when"), it seems only natural that someone who feels the label is applied to them continue to respond, even if the issue or comments had reached a level of equilibrium before. More spam, more back and forth having nothing to do with the thread, etc.

Come now, if you really consider a person's argument of that certain swedish swear word nature, perhaps something besides a condescending joke that does nothing to point out why will work sometimes. Yes, I did say sometimes and not all the time, but I suggest to you that sometimes improving the conversation is better than always making things worse.

We'll I don't have a problem with bias. There are plenty of smart biased people here who are able to contribute to threads and let their opinions be known without resorting to constant aggressive bashing/trolling.

However, the person behind Doomtrooper/Hellbinder/Geek is not one of them. I've seen board members point this out to them but it is ignored. What to do in this situation? We'll I thought I would point it out in the hopes of DHG moderating their own posts and hopefully others will support this if they feel the same way.

Actually, with long familiarity with 2 of the 3, I note several differences, and several different approaches that would be suitable to clarify how their behavior is not constructive.
But perhaps this proves me entirely wrong, since I've never received an acknowledgement of posts I've made that follow these approaches for those I've responded to...OTOH, I don't get into multi-page flamewars after doing it...Hmmm... maybe if enough people did the same the message would get through, and there would be no more flame wars? And I don't mean not criticizing, but directly addressing what is wrong instead of labelling and insulting and categorizing.
I offer the possibility that belittling 3 people and implying they are all reducable to the same identity has nothing to do with their points...exactly how do you expect them to respond to this? And I don't mean to being criticized, I mean to being criticized without substantion, by being labelled and marginalized, without directly making an observation about behavior and giving reasons but instead by a blanket implication based on "obviousness"...why does that type of attack sound like it describes something else that has been discussed...hmmm...
I don't see an improvement from this, and in fact it is this type of thing that is the fuel to the noisy flames that go back and forth. It seems to me that, instead, perhaps what Ichy suggests...every time an objectionable post occurs, quote it, and say why. If this is done without mud slinging, either the point gets through and discussion w/o flames occurs, or the moderator has a very clear cut reason for moderating.

Again, IMO. Offered in this thread because I think it is very "on topic" for the future of these forums.

 

[Dave Baumann]

I wonder how much this whole internet tech community really effects their bottom line, especially when the source is a realatively small site like B3D.

Small site?

 

[RussSchultz]

Its not the size that matters, its what you do with it.

 

[Dave Baumann]

LOL

 

[martrox]

too funny.......

 

[KnightBreed]

Its not the size that matters, its what you do with it.

Russ, always the comedian.

 

[Nick[FM]]

I don't want to comment on the Rev vs. B3D thing, but I found one comment over at the VE's comments a tad amusing:

Heh, these questions are funny. Rev, I'm assuming this:

"How good will it perform with Doom 3?"

...is why you wanted some help from the B3D members?

 

[Althornin]

You know your a <bleep> when...

There is thread discussing direction of Beyond3D and it's forums and you keep arguing about whether the NV30 has taped out yet or not.

As Demalion says, your stating this here is a total lack of sublltey, and wrong. I feel that i have been labeled wrong by a member - and your quote here enrages me, simply because i do not fit the criteria you list - yet your placement of the comment appears to imply that i do.
Maybe i am too sensative on the subject - but yours are the kind of comments that create flame wars. Esp. considering i didnt do what you say.

 

[Crusher]

Given the fact that threads in this forum have made the front pages of hardware news sites many, many times more than the actual articles have lately, I don't see how anyone can possibly say the people posting in this forum should have no influence on a company's perception of this site.

 

[darkman]

Given the fact that threads in this forum have made the front pages of hardware news sites many, many times more than the actual articles have lately, I don't see how anyone can possibly say the people posting in this forum should have no influence on a company's perception of this site.

I personally came here because I heard about the quality of the forums. All the time I've lurked, I could see real gems here and there but the signal to noise ratio can be very abysmal in some threads. I think everyone here can easily spot the difference between people who try to bring something to the discussion and people who bring in nothing but hot air and rants. Sadly, it seems the latter have much more time on their hands than the former.

We should have a poll about what is more important to people here, the forums, the articles or equally both.

Cheers,
Darkman

 

[Reverend]

and Rev, why on earth would you ask such ignorant individuals about technicial questions on the NV30???

Are you calling the various NVIDIA, ATI, Matrox, hell-all-hardware-manufacturers that visit VE ignorant?

To answer your question - there are many (many) smart folks that visit VE. They do not usually post in VE's forum but I took the chance that they may ask some questions based on my request. For all I know, maybe some guy who calls himself LordofCards (just an example) is from ATi... and he may just pop in a relevant question without revealing his true identity. It's a bit like here... lotsa smart folks lurk but don't post.

But I understand what you mean... the usual VE forum posters aren't psrticularly 3D savvy (but oh how I love some of their insane posts!).

Its not the size that matters, its what you do with it.

I have asked probably every woman I've dated whether size matters. They all say "Oh hell yeah!".

Unfortunately I never got the chance to verify their assertion first-hand with any of these women .

 

[Hellbinder]

Unfortunately I never got the chance to verify their assertion first-hand with any of these women

*maybe*... you should have waited to ask that kind of question *after* you got to 3rd base.....

Perhaps thats not such a great conversation starter... 8)

 

[Althornin]

]

Unfortunately I never got the chance to verify their assertion first-hand with any of these women

Perhaps thats not such a great conversation starter...

Dating Tips from the Rev!

 

[Reverend]

Well, actually, there *is* one woman who told me "Nah, size don't matter to me, darling.". That's my wife and she said that after we, um, well, struck a home run together.

 

[Reverend]

Hey, wait a minute... I don't think I should've told you guys that... now I gotta go ask the wife what she really meant by that....