Image Quality and Framebuffer Analysis for Available/release build Games *Read the first post*

[COPS N RAPPERS]

http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/4117/ac2z.jpg

http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/4160/ac21.jpg

Difference in lighting?

it seems odd, i think they are suppose to be lit lanterns right...not light bulbs :smile:

i think the syncing of the time of night might not be perfect. the second shot isn't angled identically.

maybe the lights have a specific brightness level and alternate on different patterns. GTA4 and saints row did.

 

[Arwin]

it seems odd, i think they are suppose to be lit lanterns right...not light bulbs :smile:

i think the syncing of the time of night might not be perfect. the second shot isn't angled identically.

maybe the lights have a specific brightness level and alternate on different patterns. GTA4 and saints row did.

The day-night cycle videos on Eurogamer seem to suggest that this difference might be real, but I'd have to see a day-night cycle version of the PS3 game to be sure. Not that it matters much.

 

[assurdum]

The day-night cycle videos on Eurogamer seem to suggest that this difference might be real, but I'd have to see a day-night cycle version of the PS3 game to be sure. Not that it matters much.

The eurogamer face off mentioned there isn't a odd but effectively ps3 version has more light effects, at least in the panoramic view of the city but they didn't a deeper analysis, strangely.

 

[Neb]

The day-night cycle videos on Eurogamer seem to suggest that this difference might be real, but I'd have to see a day-night cycle version of the PS3 game to be sure. Not that it matters much.

It is seen in several screenshots at Eurogamer. I assume the lights further out are static and the close ones dynamic?

Seems like tradeoffs depending on system for different effects.

 

[AlNom]

Yes, the PS3 version does have more lights "on" for some reason. It's unclear as to why that is...

It is seen in several screenshots at Eurogamer. I assume the lights further out are static and the close ones dynamic?

Well, it doesn't quite make sense considering the character moves, at best, 6km/hr. Dynamism for lights that are 50 meters away versus 500m wouldn't make a difference.

http://images.eurogamer.net/assets/articles//a/8/4/2/1/0/0/AC2_PS3_720p_015.jpg.jpg
http://images.eurogamer.net/assets/articles//a/8/4/2/1/0/0/AC2_360_720p_015.jpg.jpg

Even for the lights that are on in both shots, their placement & area of effect are different. I'd wager the lights were simply placed differently.

There's another scene during the game as well where even two streetlamps were unlit on the 360. I'd hardly call it a performance issue...

 

[Laa-Yosh]

To be honest the PS3 shot looks as if the lights were shining through some of the buildings... like some 3D attenuation texture lookup table is missing or so.

 

[AlNom]

Yeah... something strange. Even the centre point of a number of lights doesn't make any sense, being too high up on the buildings for something that should be closer to street level.

 

[assen]

Notice how the lighting is exactly the same for both versions in the distant part of the scene.

Also, in the distant part of the scene, and on the near part on PS3, some of the lights shine on rooftops, punching through the walls.

My theory is that they use something cheaper on PS3 and in the distance on Xbox 360 - e.g. a 3D texture; and a more expensive effect in the near part of the scene on Xbox - but they can afford only a handful of lights.

Any idea where on the forward/deferred axis this renderer lies?

 

[AlNom]

Any idea where on the forward/deferred axis this renderer lies?

Hard to say since they haven't said much about the Anvil (previously Scimitar) Engine. They did mention improvements from the Dunia Engine, which was apparently using Inferred Lighting, but that doesn't confirm anything here.

 

[assen]

Inferred? Isn't that a term recently introduced by the Red Faction people?

Dunia is Far Cry 2 / Avatar; is the same as the AC/PoP engine?

 

[semitope]

Notice how the lighting is exactly the same for both versions in the distant part of the scene.

Also, in the distant part of the scene, and on the near part on PS3, some of the lights shine on rooftops, punching through the walls.

My theory is that they use something cheaper on PS3 and in the distance on Xbox 360 - e.g. a 3D texture; and a more expensive effect in the near part of the scene on Xbox - but they can afford only a handful of lights.

Any idea where on the forward/deferred axis this renderer lies?

Those lights on the roofs can easily be attributed to a taller building being adjacent to that house. Light from that building would result in light shining on the roof of the shorter building.

It wouldn't be logical to use the more expensive effect when it results in a less realistic look overall. That would mean they just did it for the sake of doing it. The theory could be possible if reversed to using the same cheap effect as the background lights in the foreground while using a more expensive effect on the ps3 lights. They do look brighter up close whilst the lights on the 360 look the same as those in the background but fewer.

It could all just be a slight mistake on the devs part with no technical difference in the mix

 

[AlNom]

Inferred? Isn't that a term recently introduced by the Red Faction people?

Dunia is Far Cry 2 / Avatar; is the same as the AC/PoP engine?

Yes and yes. Just what I heard... I don't think FarCry 2's rendering was specifically mentioned in public, though the person I asked might have meant "Indirect Lighting". So... back to square one anyhow.

 

[Laa-Yosh]

Any idea where on the forward/deferred axis this renderer lies?

Sometimes it seems to have ambient lighting with a constant value only, particularly with interior scenes or at least no direct sunlight, so I'm guessing it's a forward renderer.

 

[assen]

Those lights on the roofs can easily be attributed to a taller building being adjacent to that house. Light from that building would result in light shining on the roof of the shorter building.

Taller building on only one version? No.

Initially when I saw the PS3 screenshots with more lights, I thought it is because they have somehow found a way to use the superior CPU power.

However, it makes no sense to cut on the Xbox 360 only near lights - for the CPU, the distant lights (which are more than the near lights) would be even more of a problem, so they would cut equally from near and distant parts.

And the "light on rooftops" defect is present on both versions in the distance - confirming the "cheaper lights" theory.

 

[Laa-Yosh]

Actually LOD seems to be a bit more aggressive in the sequel, more geometry and character popping, and of course pixelated shadows from the cascaded shadow map.
And character texture budgets sound lower too (looking back at the first game, normal mapping seems far more evident to me, but it sounds like they're a size smaller then the diffuse maps in AC2). So general image quality actually seems to be reduced.

This may be the price of dynamic lighting, as the first game had none, it was always daytime or at least static stuff within buildings and caves.

 

[assen]

...and of course pixelated shadows from the cascaded shadow map.

Nitpick: pixelated shadows aren't from the *cascaded* shadow map; you can get pixelated shadows from a non-cascaded solution, and smooth shadows from a cascaded one. Cascaded vs. single frustum is an orthogonal issue to how well the individual samples are used to produce pixelated or smooth borders.

 

[Laa-Yosh]

Yeah, I've meant their particular implementation. Can't recall the first game but screenshots suggest it wasn't a problem there, which is likely considering the static light source.
But here, shadow res in general is smaller already, even up close; and the first switch is like 5 meters away from Ezio...

 

[AlNom]

the first switch is like 5 meters away from Ezio...

First game had the same issue I recall... Noticed it a lot when walking up to a wall with a shadow being cast on it.

 

[semitope]

Taller building on only one version? No.

The other version really doesnt have the lights to produce the effect so yes it would be in only one version. I dont quite notice the same thing happening in the background lights

 

[assen]

The other version really doesnt have the lights to produce the effect so yes it would be in only one version. I dont quite notice the same thing happening in the background lights

Look above the "ched" in "Checkpoint reached", in both versions.