Image Quality and Framebuffer Analysis for Available/release build Games *Read the first post*

Discussion in 'Console Technology' started by Farid, Nov 7, 2008.

  1. COPS N RAPPERS

    Regular

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2008
    Messages:
    957
    Likes Received:
    32
    yeah, the anti-aliasing works best on moving objects closer in view. (it's mostly noticeable in epic's games more though, gears, shadow complex, and ut3 :???:)

    So in any case, in Batman AA's circumstance (360's version) a closer camera with AA would still be more like a double effect. So wouldn't that mean having no AA on a zoomed out camera would have some sort of negative effect? :???:

    I mean once a character starts to get further away from the camera in ANY game they begin to be deeply effected by the resolution. (if it's not true 1080p :wink:)

    http://i26.tinypic.com/2vj3ix3.jpg

    If it was possible i think giving some AA would help a lot in ps3's version, maybe some QAA, does the ut3 engine even support that? :???:
     
  2. Gitaroo

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2007
    Messages:
    1,921
    Likes Received:
    62
    I dont think the G70 core or RSX can do AA with UE3 due to its deferred lighting or something (not sure about this). Only DX10 hardware can do full MSAA support on PC, and most UE3 games don't even have full 2XMSAA on 360. Only UE3 game I have seen with AA on PS3 is Vegas 2, but I think alot of features are missing in that one.

    What sucks is that most is that the new UE3 features that made into Gears 2 last year like SSAO still isn't in the PS3 version of UE3, or they can't get it to run smooth enough to include it. As this feature becoming more and more common with newer games, the PS3 games are still missing this effect. Sad that U2 beta has better implementation than alot of the 3rd party games, like FEAR 2 (that one was ugly even on PC) but 3rd party games don't support at all. I think The Juarez 2 demo was the first released PS3 game I have seen with it, well Im almost sure that its SSAO based on the way it looks.
     
  3. Statix

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2007
    Messages:
    234
    Likes Received:
    0
    Actually, Punisher: No Mercy (a PSN game) is an example of an UE3 title that uses SSAO.

    Also, I think it's running on the UE3 but not 100% certain, but the PS3 version of Transformers 2 also has SSAO.
     
  4. Gitaroo

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2007
    Messages:
    1,921
    Likes Received:
    62
    never play any of those, but usually UE3 games shows the UE3 logo at the beginning, also hope that better games support it than those....
     
  5. COPS N RAPPERS

    Regular

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2008
    Messages:
    957
    Likes Received:
    32
    Hmmmmm, i guess the ut3 engine still needs more work with AA implementation and even more so on ps3 huh.

    you know think about gears of war 2, it's polygon models were pretty good probably the best Ive seen on 360.......until i saw ghostbusters.

    .........does anyone know how many polygons the characters are in that game?

    they got a lot of knickknacks on the models (such as a energy pack, key-chain, walkie talkies, flashlight, and NVG like goggles. i wonder how much the polygon models weigh when you add all that together :shock:)

    http://i32.tinypic.com/28qr9eh.jpg

    and not to mention the way the hair is done through in-game graphics.:shock:

    it even seems to rival uncharted's old pre-rendered cut-scenes.

    http://i32.tinypic.com/xp9cld.jpg

    the model of dan aykroyd is so detailed you can even see he has one brown eye and one green eye. (......if you ever get a chance to stare into his eyes in the game.:wink:)
     
    #485 COPS N RAPPERS, Aug 31, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 12, 2009
  6. TheAlSpark

    TheAlSpark Moderator
    Moderator Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2004
    Messages:
    21,736
    Likes Received:
    7,402
    Location:
    ಠ_ಠ
    You realize this has more to do with the effects and the buffers they are using... The main rendertarget is 2xMSAA. Things like post-processing or other blended effects will interfere. The same thing happens even on PC despite MSAA "hacks"/solutions.
     
  7. COPS N RAPPERS

    Regular

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2008
    Messages:
    957
    Likes Received:
    32
    I saw game-play of the joker on youtube, it's funny he's very bouncy. (i think he's better with a gun than with his fists.:smile:)

    If it's down to controller then i think i should pick the 360 version, the control mechanics are in a way similar to gears. (and that includes the camera too :wink:)

    I did a detailed inspection on both versions for graphics and they seemed the same. (give of take a few small differences)

    As for the framerate i think someone will just have to do an other frame analysis, in the framerate analysts thread.:wink: (i'll be looking forward to that whenever someone does it again)
     
  8. Betanumerical

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2007
    Messages:
    1,692
    Likes Received:
    168
    Location:
    In the land of the drop bears
    Why are you comparing a game from late 2007 with one from 2009?. Also it should be noted that Uncharteds cutscenes were only pre rendered to save bandwidth and that its just a video of what it would actually look like if it was done in real time.
     
  9. COPS N RAPPERS

    Regular

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2008
    Messages:
    957
    Likes Received:
    32
    Yeah i know what the deal was, and i think uncharted2 has the same deal.....not sure. (having access to 50 gbs isn't going to make it any easier to see blocking effects.:wink:)

    Anyways, it was a comparison based on "progress" for other developers.....you know seeing if some have caught on.:wink:
     
  10. Neb

    Neb Iron "BEAST" Man
    Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2007
    Messages:
    8,391
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    NGC2264
    You mean in selective UE3 games?

    Becouse atleast UT3, Gears of War and Mass Effect doesn't get this problem depsite PP effects onscreen (ATI 4xxx series). I can show screenshots with explosions and fullscreen effects + AA.
     
  11. Neb

    Neb Iron "BEAST" Man
    Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2007
    Messages:
    8,391
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    NGC2264
    Devs said they upped lighting and shadows a bit etc. There is an internview about this. Judging ingame/promo vs cutscene it just seems true for both Uncharted games.
     
  12. nightshade

    nightshade Wookies love cookies!
    Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2009
    Messages:
    3,392
    Likes Received:
    93
    Location:
    Liverpool
    Still, that's something which can be upped while running the cutscene in real time too.
     
  13. Neb

    Neb Iron "BEAST" Man
    Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2007
    Messages:
    8,391
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    NGC2264
    It would result in unacceptable slowdowns considering several cutscenes shows large vistas like ingame play and ingame play aint got the enhancements.
     
  14. Silent_Buddha

    Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2007
    Messages:
    17,089
    Likes Received:
    6,428
    Mass Effect at least still has post processing aliasing despite having 8xMSAA enabled on my system (4890).

    The most easily noticeable place for this is right at the start menu with the planet in the background.

    Regards,
    SB
     
  15. TheAlSpark

    TheAlSpark Moderator
    Moderator Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2004
    Messages:
    21,736
    Likes Received:
    7,402
    Location:
    ಠ_ಠ

    Yeah, this is true. Also Any of those bloom'd light beams they have all over the Citadel/Wards area will still exhibit aliased edges. Transparency SSAA has pretty big impact on these particular cases, so it's quite telling just what's going on there...

    At any rate, we won't know how they have set up the buffers between the 360 and the PC counterpart or even just the workaround that nvidia has made. There are other games where even the blend buffer isn't AA'd so any object in front of say... smoke will have its edges aliased, but once the smoke is gone, the edges appear AA'd again. Hard to say what's capability, and what's just a performance issue. More buffers, more memory, hits to fillrate, or what looks better to the developer with these considerations i.e. full res particle buffer but no AA or low res particle buffer with AA.... It depends.
     
  16. Neb

    Neb Iron "BEAST" Man
    Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2007
    Messages:
    8,391
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    NGC2264
    I know that some games with extreme whites on edges/surfaces can make the AA not visible/work. Same in HL2 HDR at final chapter where the extremly bright/strong light beams through pillars make the pillars have jaggies. Maybe transparency's as I thought before. However that is the only thing I seen in ME and well enabling TSAA doesn't do anything. The Very bright white lights in the ship also exhibits this although it was actually very hard to spot at my res and 8xAA at 30cm distance (20").

    [strike]Sorry for the bad image quality. Jpg option + FRAPS equals what looks like 20-30% jpg quality...[/strike] Fixed!
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
    #496 Neb, Aug 31, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 31, 2009
  17. Silent_Buddha

    Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2007
    Messages:
    17,089
    Likes Received:
    6,428
    And while those jaggies are less...well jaggy, than no AA. It's still hugely annoying because they crawl while in motion.

    I'm hoping as more devs move to DX10 and up we'll see more efforts for correct in game AA rather than hacks or partial AA that are required for DX9 mode.

    Er, wait...I'm still in the console forums aren't I? Will leave that discussion for another time in another forum. :D

    Regards,
    SB
     
  18. TheAlSpark

    TheAlSpark Moderator
    Moderator Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2004
    Messages:
    21,736
    Likes Received:
    7,402
    Location:
    ಠ_ಠ
    Moved a couple OT posts to the Batman thread. This is an image quality analysis thread, not a place for discussing OT preferences for making purchase decisions :!: ;)
     
  19. Quaz51

    Regular

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    916
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    France
    X360 Invincible tiger is 60fps 1280x720 in classic mode (they had promised 1080p and screenshot was native 1080p grrr only menu are 1080p) and with bad software upscale (without interpolation, just duplicate pixels) and 640x720 or 1280x360 in S3D (in accordance with type of S3D mode, all S3D mode suported)

    the game is 60fps in S3D mode too. they keep framerate and sacrifice resolution for S3D.
    anaglyph mode is 640x720 (half of pixels sources are 4 pixels large! it's ugly. 640 to 1920 juste need 3x horizontal duplication but they use 4x duplicate pixel and alterne with 2x duplicate pixel probably because they use two distinct software upscale phase, one duplicate phase for 640 to 1280 and another for 1280 to 1920, it's strange choice and bad result)
    and in anaglyph there is also lot of framerate slowdown, catastrophic framerate (not really in other S3D mode) . another downgrade in S3D mode: they disable post-process filter
     
    #499 Quaz51, Sep 4, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 4, 2009
  20. user542745831

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2008
    Messages:
    1,156
    Likes Received:
    19
    Anyone here who figured out the native rendering resolution / AA of this:

    http://scc.system3.com/downloads/wallpaper/Wallpaper_4_1920x1080.jpg

    ?

    According to the official website the game is out now and the website currently states:

    Furthermore:
    http://supercarchallenge.smugmug.com/
     
Loading...

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Beyond3D has been around for over a decade and prides itself on being the best place on the web for in-depth, technically-driven discussion and analysis of 3D graphics hardware. If you love pixels and transistors, you've come to the right place!

    Beyond3D is proudly published by GPU Tools Ltd.
Loading...