I'm gonna try this!

[Mariner]

I'll agree that Carrots are certainly much tastier raw than cooked - actually ideal for nibbling on when you're cooking I find. Raw Turnips though? You're a weirdo. :smile:

For me, the logic behind people who are vegetarian for moral reasons is a bit backward. If everybody became vegetarian, there would be no need for billions of animals which we breed as livestock so they would never exist. Ergo, veggies hate animals and want to make sure they are never even born!

 

[AlNom]

Plants are organisms too. :s

 

[Mize]

Kids can be quite healthy on either vegan or vegetarian diets. Humans, in case you hadn't heard, are omnivores. Like dogs we can live on virtually any combination of food sources.

Now granted, a strictly vegan diet can be a bit of a challenge when it comes to getting enough fats and proteins for younger kids. Fortunately bean and rice or beans and corn fried in olive oil actually meet that limitation just fine.

My kids have been vegetarians for over three years (their choice - I'm a carnivore) and they've done great on it. They eat eggs, dairy and gourmet stuff most kids won't touch. At 12 and 9 they're lean, athletic and intelligent (gifted programs, etc.). They probably know more about nutrition and good food choices than 80% of adults...make that 95% actually.

 

[Mize]

For me, the logic behind people who are vegetarian for moral reasons is a bit backward. If everybody became vegetarian, there would be no need for billions of animals which we breed as livestock so they would never exist. Ergo, veggies hate animals and want to make sure they are never even born!

Clearly you've not talked to many vegetarians. If you had a discussion with my then 8-year-old daughter when she asked if she could be a vegetarian, she put it thusly:

"I like meat, but people eat too much of it and the industry is a heavy polluter and is abusive to the animals. If I lived on a farm I'd raise and slaughter my own chickens, but only one a week or so because a human doesn't need the amount of meat Americans eat and I'd treat them better."

She's spending a week working on a real farm in two weeks and will actually help with preparing fresh chicken.

Anyway, I think you'd find most people who would rather animals not be slaughtered couldn't care less if they never existed. It's the conditions under which they must exist that are bothersome.

 

[Sxotty]

Clearly you've not talked to many vegetarians. If you had a discussion with my then 8-year-old daughter when she asked if she could be a vegetarian, she put it thusly:

"I like meat, but people eat too much of it and the industry is a heavy polluter and is abusive to the animals. If I lived on a farm I'd raise and slaughter my own chickens, but only one a week or so because a human doesn't need the amount of meat Americans eat and I'd treat them better."

She's spending a week working on a real farm in two weeks and will actually help with preparing fresh chicken.

Anyway, I think you'd find most people who would rather animals not be slaughtered couldn't care less if they never existed. It's the conditions under which they must exist that are bothersome.

Then why don't they buy their meat from somewhere that treats them well duh?

I thought you were going to make the energy argument.

 

[Mize]

Then why don't they buy their meat from somewhere that treats them well duh?

I thought you were going to make the energy argument.

Uh...many do (like me - I buy locally grown and humanely raised meats most of the time), but many also simply realize that the "first world" has become wealthy enough that meat is no longer a necessity - the ease of getting good nutrition without meat year round has never been better and lots of people (like my wife who borders on vegetarian when fresh crab meat is hard to find) simply don't like meat.

Sure, there are the religious fanatical vegans and vegetarians who are no different from disciples of any religion, but many vegetarians and vegans are also just following their preference without and agenda to change yours.

 

[Mize]

Yes, the environmental argument is quite real, now that you mention it. The "carbon footprint" of beef is supposed to be the highest of all food sources. The soy and grain to feed a cow to the point of slaughter is supposedly enough to feed many people many hundreds of times more than the meat on the cow.

So, yes, meat is inefficient. Any food source gets less efficient the further it gets from eating seeds I suppose. That said, I love a good fillet mignon (with truffles when available, no sauce of any kind please) on occasion.

Like most things in life it really is about moderation IMHO. If you're past the "I can eat anything years" (over 40) and eating meat with every meal plus lots of highly refined foods you might as well go on statins now and find a cardiologist and look into insulin kits. If you eat mostly plant matter and indulge from time-to-time in a good steak or bacon with breakfast along with some good exercise, you're probably going to have cleaner arteries, avoid diabetes and live longer.

 

[ShootMyMonkey]

For me, Vegetarians are odd, Vegans are extremely odd, but the nuttiest of all are those who live on a completely raw food vegetarian diet.

It must be incredibly difficult to stick to this sort of diet but, more pertinently, why would you want to?

I can't necessarily speak for those who harbor some kind of ideology behind it all (which many vegans and raw vegans often do, as do most "converts" to vegetarianism)...

But as for myself being a vegetarian, it's mainly because I was brought up as such. Vegetarianism in India largely started because it was far more efficient from an economic point of view for the communities where agriculture was such a huge thing. You could simply get a lot more out of less land by not using it to support animals killed for meat. Which is not to say that there were no non-vegetarian communities, but that those who were were generally made up of people who were far wealthier, and had a lot more influence from Perso-Arab regions. As such, you will see though, that vegetarian food in India is a lot more significant because there are communities which have been strictly vegetarian for a few millennia. In theory, agriculture has advanced to the point where it may not be totally necessary nowadays, but old habits die hard.

In any case, what that means on my end is simply that I'm conditioned to like what I know. I'm used to stuff that's fairly flavorful and in all my failed attempts at trying meat, I've found the vast majority of meats to be completely undetectable in taste. On another tack, though, I've known many people of French descent who just gobble bread like I'd down cups of coffee. Again, just another example of them growing up conditioned to like certain things and their diet reflects that. As far as I'm concerned, I can't imagine any other good reason ever to be vegetarian (i.e. you happen to like it). I'm not particularly bothered by any sort of cruelty to animals or other such crap -- I just eat what I like the taste of.

 

[Sxotty]

Yes, the environmental argument is quite real, now that you mention it. The "carbon footprint" of beef is supposed to be the highest of all food sources. The soy and grain to feed a cow to the point of slaughter is supposedly enough to feed many people many hundreds of times more than the meat on the cow.

Forget carbon, its just energy Who cares if the energy is increasing carbon.

That is a very valid argument, but I will be a sad person when I can no longer get a good steak b/c we squandered all our resources on earth. I don't want to live in that sort of future. Of course I don't think it likely, I will be long dead by then, but it would still be sad to me for whoever is around.

Looking at the world's fisheries highlights have bad we have been at any sort of intelligence on these matters.

 

[Cheezdoodles]

If you have an amount of food to feed all hungry humans, you dont need to give it to pigs to turn it into flesh?

Um, Pigs eat a lot of things most humans wouldn't touch. If that food\nutrition is then transformed to pig meat within 2 days, that would solve all hunger problems.

 

[Mariner]

In regards to pork, an old lady who my mother knew always told us how, when she was a child, every family in her village used to keep a pig in their back yard. This would be fed on kitchen waste/food leftovers and any waste plant matter. The pig would be butchered once it reached a certain size (can't remember if this was every 6 months or every year) and the meat would be jointed and shared around the village - obviously the pigs were butchered on a rota system so there was usually fresh or cured meat available. This was back during the early part of the 20th Century when, of course, nothing went to waste.

This sounds a pretty sensible way of doing things but, interestingly enough, it simply wouldn't be possible to do something similar in this day and age - health and safety regulations mean it is now illegal to feed pigs on leftovers!

It must be said that my sister and her young family are seriously thinking about keeping a few chickens in their back garden, however. Daily fresh eggs and meat when the hen's best laying days are past sound like a good idea to me!

 

[PARANOiA]

For me, Vegetarians are odd, Vegans are extremely odd, but the nuttiest of all are those who live on a completely raw food vegetarian diet.

It must be incredibly difficult to stick to this sort of diet but, more pertinently, why would you want to?

Would you mind explaining why you think I'm odd? Because you personally would find it difficult to stop eating meat? Doesn't that make you odd?

 

[weaksauce]

NO, it because well meaning, well educated, middle class parents are putting their toddlers on the same 'latest fad' or vegatarian, of vegan or whatever unnatural variation of diet they put themselves on. Kids need a balanced diet and that includes meet and fat and dairy.

You will have to give source on that because that is not reality as I see it. Kids are spoiled these days. If they don't want to eat what their parents cook them they don't have to, and they resolve to whatever else is the house, which is usually white bread, or white pasta or the like, probably because most people rarely have whole grian products in their homes and besides children don't like them. When I was in high school, in HIGH SCHOOL, they complained about that the school served whole grain pasta.

Also, if people would replace their white flour products with whole grain, there wouldn't be such a thing as "folic acid defiency". Governments regulating folic acid enrichment in white flour, how sad!

You're very certain about that. What's you source ? I remember at least one kid on the news being taken into care due to damn hippy shit parents feeding him 'grain' and 'pulses'.

I actually meant a high protein, high fat, low carbonhydrates diet, a.k.a ketogenic diet. If you want to know the results of that you can check it's authors.
And by the way, I'm suggesting the best diet for longevity and performance is based on fresh vegetables, and a rather limited amount of cereals.

What bothers me is the nutcase minority that picket outside UK schools telling kids that drinking cows mink is unnatural, unholly, poisonous, etc. Gaaaa! Me Angry!

You know what bothers me is that most people who think that milk is good and necessary usually get their information from the milk package.

I'm sure when my teeth fall out I'll be eating less steak And the way Tesla is held up as some sort of demi-god these days... right up there with Mr Hubbard. What a couple of fruitloops. It's just mystic crap, and casting David Bowie as Tesla didn't help If only L-Ron had taken to eating buckets of prunes the world would be a better place.

It's sad that you know nothing about this man. But why don't I ask you this, should I take my dietary guidelines from a proven genius (and while food and mental performance is the issue) or the Great poster pocketmoon66?

 

[AlphaWolf]

I'd rather consult a magic eight ball than either of those choices. If you're going to take health advice from a genius, you might want to pick one who was a genius in a field relating to health or food or something.

 

[nutball]

The "carbon footprint" of beef is supposed to be the highest of all food sources. The soy and grain to feed a cow to the point of slaughter is supposedly enough to feed many people many hundreds of times more than the meat on the cow.

Well cows don't eat soy and grain by design of course, that's an artificial construct. What would be the carbon footprint of beef if cows were allowed to eat grass from grasslands as they initially evolved to do?

 

[Bludd]

Man, this thread has made me hungry for a good steak with potatoes and maybe some Bearnaise sauce and corn and maybe some garlic butter and mmmmmmmmmmmmm

Of course the meat should be cooked rare too.

 

[AlphaWolf]

Well cows don't eat soy and grain by design of course, that's an artificial construct. What would be the carbon footprint of beef if cows were allowed to eat grass from grasslands as they initially evolved to do?

Allowed? I think you'll find alot of cattle spend a good deal of their lives grazing in the pasture.

 

[pocketmoon66]

It's sad that you know nothing about this man. But why don't I ask you this, should I take my dietary guidelines from a proven genius (and while food and mental performance is the issue) or the Great poster pocketmoon66?

haha! weaksauce, your are uncovered at last!

You know nothing about what I know about LRH. But it's sad that you somehow think it's 'sad' that I have not been 'enlightened' by him. (Is that sad that I said that?)

You certainly shouldn't take your dietry guidlines from me - I can fix you PC though or develop some software for you. Perhaps a qualified medical professional would be better? Or are they most evil servants of the psychiatrists!! Run Children!! Do not touch the milk!! Do not touch the milk!!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6948204.stm

But of course the BBC are not to be trusted (although they did provide another youtube classic with the Scientologist Rant)

and I'd rather trust what I read on a milk carton than anything penned by LRH or one of his followers (is that word allowed ? I'm not sure) And I'd certainly trust 500,000 years of evolution and adaptation than any single person on the planet. How long do you think it took to domesticate a cow, or a pig? And that was way before the Milk Marketing Board turned up and stuck a 'milk is good' slogan on the side. Gosh and Darn, at least the Milk People are only trying to sell me milk, not a lifetime of 'buying-in' (that's more like Satelite TV).

One of the longest living populations in the world live in Sardinia and eat slabs of red meat and buckets of wine. They are also very happy people

 

[pocketmoon66]

Of course the meat should be cooked rare too.

Hmm… You’re so right. IMHO, Rib eye is the best. I hate it when you go to a restaurant, you ask for rare and you get well done because they're scared of litigation! Or to a BBQ and the host stands their squishing all the juice out of the meat with a spatula!

So so hungry now….

 

[Sxotty]

Well cows don't eat soy and grain by design of course, that's an artificial construct. What would be the carbon footprint of beef if cows were allowed to eat grass from grasslands as they initially evolved to do?

You could still feed more people by destroying the grassland and planting crops.