If I'm not mistaken KOTOR II being rushed, was mostly a Obsidian screw up. Obsidian asked for more time, was given a provisional yes, but didn't get it on paper, so the original date ended up standing. Consequently Obsidian was working on the assumption they had a lot more time than they did so things like the final planet were way behind the required schedule. Its the sort of mistake a startup would make... which Obsidian were at the time.
If FPSs were so popular this gen online why no Star Wars franchise fps made?
- Thread starter Akumajou
- Start date
But just Jedi games is boring. SW provides a great universe for space combat games, guerilla warfare (COD Rebels versus Empire through Endor, Hoth, etc.), and predating the Empire there's a great GTA game scope for life on Coruscant.
There are other franchises that could serve just as well. 'Babylon 5' should have seen more games than it did. 'Firefly' would also provide a great Borderlands-meets-RDR opportunity.
There are other franchises that could serve just as well. 'Babylon 5' should have seen more games than it did. 'Firefly' would also provide a great Borderlands-meets-RDR opportunity.
The Star Wars universe has the concept of good and evil sewn straight into the characters in the form of the light and dark sides of the force. That's what made KOTOR such an excellent RPG, your choices actually had an effect on your own character development as well as your interactions with the world, - unlike all the RPG treadmills out there.
IMO, The combat system should have been more like Jade Empire (or Ninja Gaiden II !!!) with heavier focus on real time fighting. Light saber combat needs to be fast, furious and short.
Cheers
I really enjoyed Jedi Power Battles on PS1. It improved my reaction times and actually made me a marginally better Badminton player at the time. It was the most fun I had with a Jedi game, and it captured the spirit of the Jedi as embodied by Darth Maul and Qui-Gon Jinn. X-Wing was a great game. I actually never got on with KOTOR but I know many rave about that game. There's lots of great stuff that could be done with the SW universe in amazing next-gen fidelity.
When I think of Star wars FPS is not what comes to my mind first.
The most charismatic characters of the series Jedi and Sith are either melee/melee tank or spell casters as in SWTOR (which I'm downloading now).
In my opening post I mentioned why fps+Jedi/force users is a nay in the rules but I will add some more reasons.
In a first person perspective, you are wielding a light saber... It works well if you are only thinking about Ep IV Darth Vader vs Obi Wan because its mostly "what we saw in film" was fencing, basic parrying.
We go into Ep V and we are in deep shit already in a fps... Because average gamers will complain of vertigo and disorientation so as a result the fps is scrapped and it becomes third person.
Jedi Knight II was awesome in this respect, specially online but that is with ancient graphics effects compared to current gen, nevermind PS4/xboxdurango.
My thinking is Republic Commando but for online mode a mix of Killzone 2/Battlefield 3 type gameplay...
I only mention Call of Duty due to FPS genre domination in sales, and because COD as a sp/online mp series is set in WWII, 1960/70s and "near future fantasy" scenarios which Star Wars as a FPS could have one game dedicated to Clone Wars SP/ online then another "Rebel Commando" (lol) you could be either human or alien race soldier taking orders from higher ups with say special mission orders from Luke, Leia, Han Or Lando via hologram like in RC where Mace Windu gives details on a special mission. Then for online it would be Rebels vs Imperial troops...
Of course I say Killzone/Battlefield 3 for a diverse and progressive, complex a.i. that tries to seek cover, tactics and no endless wave of invisible line, cheap troops or simple arcadish but more cartoony COD style would be a big no no.
Force powers for the sake of "star wars" is giving the impression that some only think of jedi fantasies and are not aware of the many side stories (comics) that are not even about force users, not even latent ones.
Of course I say Killzone/Battlefield 3 for a diverse and progressive, complex a.i. that tries to seek cover, tactics and no endless wave of invisible line, cheap troops or simple arcadish but more cartoony COD style would be a big no no.
Force powers for the sake of "star wars" is giving the impression that some only think of jedi fantasies and are not aware of the many side stories (comics) that are not even about force users, not even latent ones.
The reason there haven't been any is that LucasArts had a few planned and partially developed, but have been so badly mismanaged over the last few years that nothing actually hit the shelves.
Now that Disney runs things and has shut that failed studio down (there's a reason that when people talk about how great LucasArts is, they don't talk about the last ten years), they hopefully will manage the license better.
Now that Disney runs things and has shut that failed studio down (there's a reason that when people talk about how great LucasArts is, they don't talk about the last ten years), they hopefully will manage the license better.
(((interference)))
Veteran
OMG, I had that game, used to play co-op with my brother. It was so bloody hard, no checkpoints etc, if you lost all your lives you had to restart the entire level from scratch.
And the hardest part was always the platforming sections!!! especially given it was a 2.5D game which made things somewhat frustrating as depth of a platform was hard to judge accurately.
I remember always dying when some droid would shoot you mid jump causing you to plummet to your doom - very frustrating!
When playing co-op, both players could go offscreen! being replaced with big arrows pointing in their general direction.
There was a reason it got mediocre reviews, though it was fun at the time (for kids who didn't know better than buying merchandised games)
Never finished it, only got up to level 5.
My favourite Star Wars game was Jedi Knight 2: Jedi Academy, had that on Xbox. It was pretty fun with the different force powers and lightsaber wielding options, missions were also pretty varied.
Well yeah in the last ten years they were terrible, I still don't understand why LucasArts did not allow Factor 5 to make a new Rouge Squadron like title on PS3, that may have helped keep that company alive from the losses they suffered during Lair.
I also kind of remembered that prior to this current gen, LucasArts kind of went into trying to have just multiplatform titles as opposed to before that when they had much better games.
also people have fond memories of LucasArts because of a lot of original NON-Star Wars games that they did in the 90s that sadly never saw a transition over to the PS2/GameCube/Xbox generation due to 3d game development costs rising if I am not mistaken.
Prophecy2k
Veteran
Becuase nobody wants to play a Star Wars game unless they get to play a Jedi with all the badass force powers.
It would be like making a game in the Marvel superheros universe, and then telling the player they had to play with a crappy human soldier with a gun, instead of one of the myriad godly over-powered dudes that children fantasize over. It would be a wasted potential...
Wake me up though when they make a first person Star Wars Jedi WRPG, along the lines of Fallout 3 crossed with Skyrim, but with spaceships and alien worlds thrown in the mix (oh and Tweleks). That would be something I'd wanna play.
SW: Battlefronts says 'hi'.
Prophecy2k
Veteran
SW battlewhoo?!?
wink: of course I'm well aware of that series, which has been dead since last gen, thus somewhat proving my point).
How does a product being dead because none was made available to buy prove that no-one wants to buy it? If BF3 had been released and no-one bought it, then it'd prove your point. Assuming it was a quality title. I think all too often management who don't believe in a product don't fully invest and back it, releasing a half-baked product that consumer rightly don't take to, to which the management hold up as proof that there was no interest in the first place.SW battlewhoo?!?
Otherwise I think the history of SW games and fan talk shows there's plenty of interest in modern versions of classic non-Jedi games.
I see that you really enjoyed The Force Unleashed series... even though that series deviated (and violated the rules) greatly from how Jedi/Sith force powers were supposed to be used, not to mention how it became a mindless repetitive gameplay that makes Dynasty Warriors look like the holy grail of gameplay... (which it is
)That is a bad, awful analogy or comparison... if you actually read comics you would be aware that just in the marvel universe there are actually more superheros/villains than there are Jedi/Sith in the Star Wars films.
I understand that you did not try to read the thread... nor did you seem to actually play any non-Jedi Star Wars games, I hope you someday realize that with your kind of thinking you are limiting what can be made out of the franchise.
Please go and read the earlier posts and give Republic Commando single player a try... just don't go playing thinking like you are in Call of Duty one man army mentality or you will keep dying.
Also I already mentioned why a first person Jedi game is a bad idea, and I understand your comparison to Fallout 3/Oblivion/Skyrim however you also need to understand that those games are not TRUE first person, they offer third person for a reason... and Jedi combat is supposed to be faster, more intense instead of derivative and cookie cutter.
Could you tell me which Star Wars franchise games you played and which did you actually prefer or enjoy? besides the films did you watch or read any of the extended universe stuff?
I really don't want to turn this into a Star Wars franchise discussion but I did want to mention something about KOTOR 1 and 2.
Basically that I remember people complaining that you could not control the Jedi in real time... and later after playing Mass Effect series I still resent the gameplay system that despite having RPG elements, makes you control your characters gun play in real time instead of a traditional RPG system. I feel that people who complain about the KOTOR games just love to complain and don't really play the games... they keep demanding too much action out of a genre that has a different form of action gameplay...
Also I was getting back into some Rogue Squadron III on GameCube, its hard to believe that those games were made last gen.
SW battlewhoo?!?
Every time a new console generation happens, new games usually get made, some get revisited in the form of sequels and some get retooled... this current gen has been a bit chaotic because people/gamers did not realize that physics, A.I. and resolution (among other things) became such huge walls to overcome... and then you had online play which throws a wrench into the game dev/pub budget because just look at what the dominant genre has been this gen, and then look at the games that have sold the most... even though that is the case that should not prevent game pubs/devs from funding/making either a sequel to an previous gen game or a different take.
Battlefront 3 could have been made no problem... however the big decision lies with the top brass in charge (not George Lucas), Battlefront 1 and 2 set some tall sales records in their day, as far as gameplay the games had huge flaws and bugs... but gamers still enjoyed it, a sequel basically being a pretty HD evolution could have been made with no need for complex current gen physics... or A.I. although that would have been preferred and then there is online play... game devs and publisher imho have no excuse to claim on why such games were not made given that this gen has lasted for over 7 years... in fact I believe the Xbox 360 is gonna be eight years old this coming November.
Game dev tools usually improve, game devs usually get better... it just seems like this gen has not only gotten expensive but fearful of a single game tearing the sales potential of any other game attempt.
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Prophecy2k
Veteran
I see that you really enjoyed The Force Unleashed series... even though that series deviated (and violated the rules) greatly from how Jedi/Sith force powers were supposed to be used, not to mention how it became a mindless repetitive gameplay that makes Dynasty Warriors look like the holy grail of gameplay... (which it is
That is a bad, awful analogy or comparison... if you actually read comics you would be aware that just in the marvel universe there are actually more superheros/villains than there are Jedi/Sith in the Star Wars films.
I understand that you did not try to read the thread... nor did you seem to actually play any non-Jedi Star Wars games, I hope you someday realize that with your kind of thinking you are limiting what can be made out of the franchise.
Please go and read the earlier posts and give Republic Commando single player a try... just don't go playing thinking like you are in Call of Duty one man army mentality or you will keep dying.
Also I already mentioned why a first person Jedi game is a bad idea, and I understand your comparison to Fallout 3/Oblivion/Skyrim however you also need to understand that those games are not TRUE first person, they offer third person for a reason... and Jedi combat is supposed to be faster, more intense instead of derivative and cookie cutter.
Could you tell me which Star Wars franchise games you played and which did you actually prefer or enjoy? besides the films did you watch or read any of the extended universe stuff?
I really don't want to turn this into a Star Wars franchise discussion but I did want to mention something about KOTOR 1 and 2.
Basically that I remember people complaining that you could not control the Jedi in real time... and later after playing Mass Effect series I still resent the gameplay system that despite having RPG elements, makes you control your characters gun play in real time instead of a traditional RPG system. I feel that people who complain about the KOTOR games just love to complain and don't really play the games... they keep demanding too much action out of a genre that has a different form of action gameplay...
Also I was getting back into some Rogue Squadron III on GameCube, its hard to believe that those games were made last gen.
Every time a new console generation happens, new games usually get made, some get revisited in the form of sequels and some get retooled... this current gen has been a bit chaotic because people/gamers did not realize that physics, A.I. and resolution (among other things) became such huge walls to overcome... and then you had online play which throws a wrench into the game dev/pub budget because just look at what the dominant genre has been this gen, and then look at the games that have sold the most... even though that is the case that should not prevent game pubs/devs from funding/making either a sequel to an previous gen game or a different take.
Battlefront 3 could have been made no problem... however the big decision lies with the top brass in charge (not George Lucas), Battlefront 1 and 2 set some tall sales records in their day, as far as gameplay the games had huge flaws and bugs... but gamers still enjoyed it, a sequel basically being a pretty HD evolution could have been made with no need for complex current gen physics... or A.I. although that would have been preferred and then there is online play... game devs and publisher imho have no excuse to claim on why such games were not made given that this gen has lasted for over 7 years... in fact I believe the Xbox 360 is gonna be eight years old this coming November.
Game dev tools usually improve, game devs usually get better... it just seems like this gen has not only gotten expensive but fearful of a single game tearing the sales potential of any other game attempt.
Whoaaah, relax Akumajou... I read the thread. I just thought I'd chime in with my opinion based on your original question in the OP.
Personally, I admit I haven't played any non-Jedi star wars games besides the X-wing and space-based combat games. But that's mainly due to the fact that the others simply don't appeal to me, and mainly exactly for the reasons I stated. I tried playing the demo of Republic Commando on the PS2 (I think it was), and it just felt dry playing some nobody dude with a gun in the STAR WARS universe, that since my childhood days and first time watching the movies, I've only really ever associated with the crazy superhuman Jedi.
The vast majority of people like me, who grew up on the movies and loved them, but have no exposure to the expanded universe material (aside from the games), associate the franchise with its tentpole iconic heroes the Jedi, and its equally superlative and insidious villains the Sith. I did play the Force Unleashed and I thought it was an unfinished steaming pile. My favourite Star Wars games have been the space-combat ones, KOTOR1&2 and the Jedi outcast games. I love Star Wars games but I'm interested in the universes' most badass figures, not so much the underpowered humans who cannot measure up. That's not my fault however... You should blame george lucas for that!
Also, following Shifty's reply, I was actually thinking moreso along the lines of it being a perception among the publishers that gamers and fans of the franchise are more interested in the Jedi than the human characters with weapons. Given that it's been over 7 years now since the last Star Wars Battlefront Game, I would state that it can't be that difficult to imagine that Pubs simply don't think that such a game would sell at all in today's FPS market. And I can't really blame them to be honest. In that the one thing that holds Star Wars back as a franchise for a successful modern FPS is its universe and lore. Moreso its technology, in that almost every modern Sci-Fi shooter (e.g. mass effect, Killzone, Halo, Resistance etc) has swapped out its crazy futuristic weapons (read: plasma and lazers) for more contemporary standard projectile-like weapons (read: rifles, shotguns, SMGs, LMGs, sniper rifles etc). Boring I know, but even the mighty Halo did this, with 323 Ind. even citing that people didn't connect well with the more sci-fi weapons during their focus tests (*vomits in mouth*). So in that light a Star Wars FPS has no chance. It's the very epitome of "pew pew" lazers.
For a really solid Star Wars FPS to be released, it would either have to break continuity with its lore and universe, or be made and published by a very big name, very competant, and very brave/reckless dev/pub. It would be an extremely risky endeavour.
Disclaimer: This isn't really my personal opinion, rather how I believe the publisher think. My personal belief is that there exists a sizeable market that would lapup a great Star Wars FPS. And even moreso for one that is actually an excellent game and with a lot of deep and rich SP and MP features.
I am a super SW fan and I love Jedi and Sith as the next guy but there is an entire galaxy of opportunities with SW.
With SW you can touch any genre, any gameplay, so why stop at Jedi or Sith.
Why not have Jedi/Sith games AND games about: bounty hunters, pirates, assassins, spies, etc...
FPS is the most popular genre at today and SW is the only franchise that IMO can easily overshadow any other sci-fi universe/franchise.
If I was Disney I would license SW to a good FPS dev right away.
With SW you can touch any genre, any gameplay, so why stop at Jedi or Sith.
Why not have Jedi/Sith games AND games about: bounty hunters, pirates, assassins, spies, etc...
FPS is the most popular genre at today and SW is the only franchise that IMO can easily overshadow any other sci-fi universe/franchise.
If I was Disney I would license SW to a good FPS dev right away.
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I remember when Dark Forces came out there was incessant whining all around about the lack of Jedi aspects. People wanted their Doom: Star Wars Supar Jedi. But I liked that no-nonsense regular-guy mercenary Katarn. Vader says he is "strong in the force" at one point though, as a hint for the sequel.
TIE Fighter has no Jedi stuff in the gameplay, but Maarek Steele (the protagonist) is also said to be "strong in the force". And since you can blast through missions accomplishing everything essentially alone even on hard difficulty (the AI is brain dead), it makes sense I suppose that you would be "special".
Jedi Knight 2 has about the first 1/3 of the game free of Jedi stuff. Reviewers whined about having to use guns so players probably did too. I can't remember if there was whining about Jedi Knight 1 for doing the same thing...
There's a PSP game called Star Wars Lethal Alliance with a female protagonist who has no Jedi abilities. Unfortunately it is third person. And I very rarely see this game mentioned by anyone.
TIE Fighter has no Jedi stuff in the gameplay, but Maarek Steele (the protagonist) is also said to be "strong in the force". And since you can blast through missions accomplishing everything essentially alone even on hard difficulty (the AI is brain dead), it makes sense I suppose that you would be "special".
Jedi Knight 2 has about the first 1/3 of the game free of Jedi stuff. Reviewers whined about having to use guns so players probably did too. I can't remember if there was whining about Jedi Knight 1 for doing the same thing...
There's a PSP game called Star Wars Lethal Alliance with a female protagonist who has no Jedi abilities. Unfortunately it is third person. And I very rarely see this game mentioned by anyone.
I did not intend to question your opinion I only questioned the idea that (even others over the years repeat) "Star Wars game" can only = "Jedi Superman Celebrity"
I used to think just like you do in the sense of only thinking that holding a lightsaber would be the only thing I wanted to do if a Star Wars franchise videogame so I understand you.
I also played the Republic Commando demo on PC...(the game was only on xbox 1/PC) and really did not get exited or even initially like the idea of playing some clone trooper, however the demo did not really do justice to the commanding or managing aspect of the gameplay and in my case it was a thing about 2004/2005 having played Doom 3 retail for PC and still having the impulse to want to buy another game and I already had Jedi Knight II and I and later Academy so it was kind of like an impulse buy for me... I do understand why the game must have failed initially... or maybe it had something to do with being released in 2005 right when Xbox 360 and the next gen consoles were coming and how Xbox 1 at the time was predominantly Halo only. I also did not think that the game was that special with its huge flaws but the reason for this thread was because of all the raving over how FPSs make so much money this current gen and how many other game devs have turned to jumping into the FPS bandwagon, I couldn't help but notice that in the majority of these "popular cash cow FPS" you play as some nameless nobody but somehow badass dudebro that Republic Commando nor the idea of a series of serious SW FPSs even got considered.
Battlefront series was not a true FPS series. Not even a FPS-lite, it was a third person/first person hybrid with loose controls not precise enough to qualify as true arcady controls or FPS material and it really tried to do too much with too many limits.
I understand your point about publishers feeding the focus group mentality of gamer/fans/star wars fans and turning around and devoting an entire current console generation to making The Force Unleashed something that was eaten up and forgiven initially.
However I really do not believe you or that game devs/pubs would believe a game like that, specifically talking about a Republic Commando (and note that game is not laid out like other Star Wars games) type or sequel would sell in the current gen (also keep in mind I originally wanted to make this thread years ago but well did it now lol what timing).
As for Halo did this, or that or that 323 decided to use on lazer weapon..., that is hard to swallow, that game franchise's fans are very forgiving however the game series always established since 2001 that humans had mostly bullet weapons while aliens had plasma and lazers.
Resistance, having played that game and enjoyed it, I feel it was more of unfair fanboy war hype... gamers calling it a "WWII shooter" at one time at another calling it a "halo wannabe" or "why ____ Halo this ____" I heard them all way back then.
However in Republic Commando the devs did make the Trandoshan weapons bullet based because they wanted an excuse to have a shot gun in there... its just that that series never got to evolve on more powerfull hardware and 3d engine... or game dev experience.
It really seems to be more of bad business decisions.
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