Ben, your arguments are becomming weaker....
BenSkywalker said:
You bring up a whole bunch of different points on how you see visuals enhancing gameplay but they all have one common element, they are simply an updated version/evolution of something that has been done before they simply have added visual aids.
Ben, I've shown quite well how increased graphical presentation has allowed for greater and greater developer fredom in implimenting new and differing forms of gameplay.
Infact, other than your sterotypical "I'm God, beleieve me because I'm Ben" responces, you've shown shit.
So, I'm guessing you approve of playing games viewing only the raw data streams? Good times....
Take Morrowind as an example. People respond to you in a much more positive manner if you are clothed within their class(basic clothes for poor people, exquisite clothes for the wealthy and a bunch in between). They also respond to you in a negative fashion if you happen to catch a disease. The thing is, Morrowind is natively first person in perspective. You can't see your clothes when in that view, and even if swap the camera around you can't see that your sick(however you have an indicator to show you you are).
Wow, thanks for proving my point. The increased precision and computation of modern day graphics allows for the developer to do away with the indicator and add this in game. The character could cough, have red and wet eyes, breath heavily, seem faint. This can then turn into gameplay - Maybe I can hide the fact that I'm sick if I wear this, or stand like so with the sun behind me, or have some way of user controlled holding of sneezing (rapid button pushing to test tolerences perhaps). Do this with your raw data streams and game the gameplay fun.
Graphics will allow for, as in
Fable, the character to tan if in the sun, if he uses his arms swinging a sword, his muscles buldge - all of these can turn into game play inhancing features if the developer so chooses to spend the time and resources doing it.
However they do so in a manner that you have to check a menu screen or look at an icon to do it. Not seeing the clothes, or the fact that you are diseases does not effect the gameplay, it enhances the submersive factor.
Ben, are you an idiot... read my posts. It does affect the gameplay as your not playing the game as you're looking threw some sub-menus or icons. But, by implimenthing these seemlessly threw graphical presentation, you can have them become focal points of the gameplay. Again, look at
Fable or
Sigma.
If I see someone whose visually sick or appears to be dying, I won't go near them. If I'm preparing for a battle and I see my opponents is physically huge and super phyched for battle, maybe I'll high-tail it outta there and run. Increased graphics will alow for better battlefields and realisatic forests and jungles that will be huge on the gameplay side in a stealth or similar type of game.
Not even to mention
Doom3 - take away the graphically alowable darkness and shadows and you have no gameplay. Make the game as bright as Serious Sam and lets see how scary it is and how fundimentally the gameplay experience changes... Ohh, there's a monster 30 yards up under the bright florescent lighting - Sniper rifle... Scores!
On a side not, I wouldn't trust the people at Lionhead when talking about their game. They have to be the single best example for disgustingly overhyping a game and underdelivering(Black&White anyone). It may end up being everything they say, but so far they are batting .000.
Um, but of course - because Ben said so. Not onlt is this utterly and totally irrelevent, but it's a pretty pathetic attempt at discrediting something.
I think Big Blue Box & Lionhead will do fine.
640*480/20,000= 15.36
So for those 20,000 characters you have on screen you can draw just over fifteen pixels each for them, if absolutely nothing else is visible. Tell me, how complex do you think a fifteen pixel object needs to be?
Wow, thanks for showing just how linear in thinking you truely are. So, all 20,000 are doing to be the same distance on the viewplane? OMG!! That means like ateleast 5,000 of them are going to be hovering in the game at the same distance from the 'camera' as the ones directly below them!!
Um, lets think dynamically Ben - good times. If there's 20,000 soldiers, the ones in the foreground will consume more pixels opposed to those in the distence. I battle with 20,000 combatents will be over tens (maybe a hundred) square miles. Thus, in the distance the combatents will take less pixels up and thanks to that whole LOD thing consume less resources. But, this is possible - the cohesion between chacters in the foreground will be intact and in the distence, it will blur into a mob of people with the occational flaming arrow visable.
Now, each of these combatents can prove to be vital to the gameplay - regardless of distanance. The developer can pull of a LoTR: TTT type battle where you start by getting yout ass kicked and then something happens (heh) - An example is perhaps you finally arive with a necessary artifact or person that causes a rally cry to go throught the people and you win. Or perhaps the outcome of the 20,000 could be tied to your own preformance. The options are huge.
Noise on the screen
It might be noise, but it openes up the possibility for gameplay options and combinatiosn that just aren't there now.
This is already being done in games, without visual representation. I'm not thinking linear hear Vince, you aren't coming up with any breakthrough gameplay here, just a different level of immersion.
Um, I think I've shown it well enough. You've still never answered most of my questions. For example, if your right (haha!), then answer this:
If the gameplay is independent of graphics, which are only a form of 'immersion;' then why don't you play your games looking at just the raw data streams - ala. Sypther in the Matrix?
No graphics needed, the gameplays still there according to you - the AI is chuggin, the physics are working. Unplug your 3D card, put in a 2D adapter and watch the debug code or whatever.
Because, Graphics are definatly a factor in gameplay. And at present are the limiting function of what a developer can and can't impliment in his gameplay.
(under The Reactive Hero + A Simulated World)
