How would you react when the PSX3 spec reads 240~480 GFLOPS?

[marconelly!]

it does seem there is a disproportionate amount of Sony/CELL discussion going on - to the point where many threads that weren't even about that, end up as being so.

At least half of those topics are created in a negative manner, though (be it chap, deadmeat or someone third) Apparently, it's not only 'diehard Sony fans' who want to discuss it. Maybe people discuss it because there's something to discuss? In all seriousness, until couple of days ado, we knew next-to-nothing about new Xbox or Gamecube. Not even that they are being made, much less what hardware will be in them. Then that announcement about MS/ATI partnership came in and people here jumped on it discussing it in a huge thread. When there's something to discuss, people do it.

 

[jvd]

You should ponder that yourself randy .

With all due respect you should not be the one saying this, moderator or not. I see that you tried to wiggle out of it in your previous post, but your stance has always been veeeeery much anti-Sony and neutral towards everything else. I don't see why you even try to disagree with it, really, it's kinda too obvious.

Randycat is at least pro-something and very mild-minded at that. I really don't see how is that in any way a bad thing or worse than being against something...

I'm sorry perhaps you should seach for jvd and read all my posts. Then read the threads in which they are at. The only thing i diss sony for is thier shody drives in systems and thier controller which i stated was a personal because i have big hands. I just never believed for a moment that the cell chip would be 1tflop. Lots of people on this forum hated me for saying it. Lots of people hate me for pointing out that sony can fail. Its the way the board are. The most vocal group here are the pro sony. So instead of having this board 100% pro sony . I bring up reasons why they fail or they are not good. If the few of us here that actually do that didn't. This forum would be un readable .

 

[jvd]

it does seem there is a disproportionate amount of Sony/CELL discussion going on - to the point where many threads that weren't even about that, end up as being so.

At least half of those topics are created in a negative manner, though (be it chap, deadmeat or someone third) Apparently, it's not only 'diehard Sony fans' who want to discuss it. Maybe people discuss it because there's something to discuss? In all seriousness, until couple of days ado, we knew next-to-nothing about new Xbox or Gamecube. Not even that they are being made, much less what hardware will be in them. Then that announcement about MS/ATI partnership came in and people here jumped on it discussing it in a huge thread. When there's something to discuss, people do it.

I'm sorry but when its 99% unreleased sony systems and then .5% current sony and .5% other. Its wholey slanted towards sony. Not only that but half the sony threads are not started by chap or deadmeat. Actually chap has been very mellow lately. Deadmeat starts alot of threads. But its only been about 4 or 5. Trust me I keep tabs on the forum.

One more thing about my anti sony stance. If there were topics about the other systems you'd see me bash them too. I've done it before. I've even bashed the dreamcast. Yes me bashing the dreamcast. So don't go screaming I'm anti sony.

 

[cthellis42]

So don't go screaming I'm anti sony.

Well, would you allow some people to still call you "heathen!" if it made them feel better?

 

[Vince]

And thier controller which i stated was a personal because i have big hands.

Yeah, whatever Dirk Diggler.

 

[jvd]

So don't go screaming I'm anti sony.

Well, would you allow some people to still call you "heathen!" if it made them feel better?

yea you can call me that .

 

[jvd]

And thier controller which i stated was a personal because i have big hands.

Yeah, whatever Dirk Diggler.

Heh . nice little joke . Is that a reflex ? Are you in awe of me or something and feel so threatend that you can only reply with a little joke ?

 

[Vince]

And thier controller which i stated was a personal because i have big hands.

Yeah, whatever Dirk Diggler.

Heh . nice little joke . Is that a reflex ? Are you in awe of me or something and feel so threatend that you can only reply with a little joke ?

Wow, tough crowd tonight. Where did that come from?

PS. I'd make a 'big' joke, but God's still having fun with my 'little' joke. Ok, I feel as dirty as when I read a KILER post... sleepy time indeed.

 

[Dave Baumann]

[There is also a disproportionate amount of ATI discussion on this site as a whole. To the point where many a threads that weren't even about that, end up being so

First site != forums. However, why do you say disproportionate? Becuase it doesn't refelect your bias? Over the past month or two the site is has been cranking out NVIDIA reviews nearly 2:1 ATI. As for the forums, if I look at the first page of the 3D Tech forum I see two topics that pertain solely to ATI and 5 to NVIDIA - sorry if thats too much ATI discussion for you Vince!

- I've even had a mod comment to me about that before.

Who?

If we wanted to talk about XBox2 or GameCube's Graphics's; we can go to the PC Forums.

Thats an assinine comment. IF you want to go that route, why do you just go off to a Sony fansite?

The entire reason for creating this forum was to prevent those discussions in the PC forums.

 

[Vince]

First site != forums. However, why do you say disproportionate? Becuase it doesn't refelect your bias? Over the past month or two the site is has been cranking out NVIDIA reviews nearly 2:1 ATI.

Cute, but if you really insist on this argument. Lets atleast look at some numbers from here http://www.beyond3d.com/reviews/index.php:

2003 Review:

• ATI - 13 articles.
  nVidia - 6* articles.

*And the last one, which is quite good infact, wasn't even done by B3D staff, it was a reader submission.

2002 Reviews:

• ATI boards - 7 articles.
  nVidia board - 9 articles.

Atleast in 2002 you could make a case that the ~2 difference is insignificant and follows marketshare. This year is just embarrasing, especially considering the fact that nVidia is still dominating absolute marketshare numbers. And you can't say that it's because all the nVidia reviews were before the calander year and thus skewed.

As for the forums, if I look at the first page of the 3D Tech forum I see two topics that pertain solely to ATI and 5 to NVIDIA - sorry if thats too much ATI discussion for you Vince!

As for the forum, you actually read the thread in there right? That's what the Mod's comment was about actually. Heck, I have trouble finding a thread that doesn't have random people comming in and bringing up nVidia's drivers or cheating or how they 'were totally blindsided by the R300 which totally surprised them'.

This forum has allways had a substantial amount of bias, generally manifested against the status-quo company which has been nVidia. It's just shifted from the ignorent and utterly embarasing comments, cover-ups, and half-assed & spun-to-shit arguments (eg. T&L, 32-bit color, list goes on and on... which I certainly did) in defense of 3dfx that would make Protagoras of Abdera proud to todays ATI championing.

Who?

Yeah, I'm going to be an asshole and narc on someone so I can tell you. It's not that hard to figure out actually.

The entire reason for creating this forum was to prevent those discussions in the PC forums.

So, you want concurrent discussions on the same pice of hardware? This confuses me as what's currently known of the ATI ICs is what is being talked about in 3D forum. Of course the level of Sony discussion will be higher as it's a more known and unique solution - if we wanted to discuss and predict what's basically a PC architecture - we'd go to the PC Forum.

 

[Dave Baumann]

Cute, but if you really insist on this argument. Lets atleast look at some numbers from here http://www.beyond3d.com/reviews/index.php:

Uhh, Vinny, you forgot these old boy:

http://www.beyond3d.com/previews/index.php

(plus another 5900 review that will go up tomorrow). We can hardly be blamed for ATI generally releasing more hardware recently, now can we? Or would you rather we not review new stuff?

*And the last one, which is quite good infact, wasn't even done by B3D staff, it was a reader submission.

He is actually, I've just not got round to adding him to the DB - I was the one that sourced the hardware and sent it to him (or at least, half for that review).

This year is just embarrasing, especially considering the fact that nVidia is still dominating absolute marketshare numbers. And you can't say that it's because all the nVidia reviews were before the calander year and thus skewed.

Well, if you really want to go that route- according to recent numbers ATI currently have 97% of the $300+ market, considering the number of 5900 reviews we've done we've disproportinatly represented the high end this year ( and most of our reviews have looked at the mainstream and high end parts)

As for the forum, you actually read the thread in there right? That's what the Mod's comment was about actually.

Sorry?

Yeah, I'm going to be an asshole so I can tell you. It's not that hard to figure out actually.

Well, it is actually since apart from jvd and Sonic only site staff are mods here, and site staff have generally said they are happy with the direction since we've grown exponentially. Unless you are talking about Quincy, but he hasn't been a mod since we came back up. So, yes, it is hard to figure out - unless you are just BS'ing.

So, you want concurrent discussions on the same pice of hardware?

A.) they are not, as far as we know, the same pices of hardware and B.) they are certianly not the same systems.

We created this forum for the discussion of consoles - partly because we were getting an increased disccusion relating to consoles when NVIDIA supplied parts for the XBox, we aren't going to go back.

 

[randycat99]

...and that's one of the more befuddling remarks I've heard from jvd. The most vocal group here are pro-Sony?! [points back to the illusion of delusion] On the contrary, the most vocal group here is anti-Sony. Look at all the anti-PS3 topics on the board. Look at all the other topics where PS3 or Sony are needlessly dragged into via a negative comment. This is all the anti-Sony group at work. The fact that there are others who will step in to defend is simply a sign that there are people who care about equal representation on these boards, not that this board is pro-Sony. When any other consoles get slagged unnecessarily, there will be people to step in there, as well. It's THAT simple. The thing that certain people here consistently fail to recognize is that there wouldn't be so much need to defend a certain console if there weren't so much bashing permitted on that console. Seems like a splendid time to fix the problem, not the symptom. However if you are anti-Sony to begin with, naturally the more amicable solution is to just quash the "defenders", and just let the bashing continue as a matter of standard operations. It's a bit sickening, but hey, I'm no authority here to make a difference.

 

[Vince]

Uhh, Vinny, you forgot these old boy:

http://www.beyond3d.com/previews/index.php

Ok, I was wrong and I'm sorry. I'll allways apologize when I'm wrong like this, and I am sorry - just plain overlooked it.

Yet, I doubt you can deny that (in the forums) there has been and continues to be a strong anti-nVidia setiment. I think I still have comment from a mod (not Q or a console mod though) saved as a PM since I never clean that thing... hmm.

And, nVidia still has the vast bulk of the DX9 marketshare AFAIK, the extreme high-end has never been representative of that much in absolute amounts.

 

[Tahir2]

This is a console forum. Why are we talking about DX9 and NVIDIA and ATI marketshare in the PC gfx domain?

This is silly guys. We were talking about Sony and the Broadband Engine. By 2005 BroadBand will be out of date and to be honest Emotion Engine sounds so much better. Next question?

Hey finally PS2 prices will be coming down to reasonable levels this Xmas season.

Oh and the 1TFLOPS quote and all that. It is amble bait for those that like to cause fights however as proved by this thread and what did I say at the start of this thread???

Well I only care about Gran Tourismo 5 on the PS3 at the moment. If it is really good I will buy it and I suppose I will have to buy a PS3 to go with it .. :sighs:

Who cares about numbers - after that some people will shoot Sony down for not including Anisotropic Filtering with Trilinear by default or how they forgot to add support for volume textures and how little main system RAM they have compared to a PC... etc etc.

Have you seen those games? Some of them are absolutely awesome - why dont people go and play them? Is it more fun to argue about these things? Actually for older more 'mature' males it is, apparently (don't quote me on that)!

 

[jvd]

And thier controller which i stated was a personal because i have big hands.

Yeah, whatever Dirk Diggler.

Heh . nice little joke . Is that a reflex ? Are you in awe of me or something and feel so threatend that you can only reply with a little joke ?

Wow, tough crowd tonight. Where did that come from?

PS. I'd make a 'big' joke, but God's still having fun with my 'little' joke. Ok, I feel as dirty as when I read a KILER post... sleepy time indeed.

I was joking too. Just forgot the lol face the second time i had to type it. For some reason i've been having trouble connecting

 

[Dave Baumann]

Yet, I doubt you can deny that (in the forums) there has been and continues to be a strong anti-nVidia setiment.

And this is echoed elsewhere as well - not least, from many people over at NVNEWS (many of which are now discussing over here).

At the moment NVIDIA are fighting a battle against their "optimisations" policy, something that hasn't earn't them much respect with large numbers of people, they have serious issues with their DX9 performance at the moment, and the extreme levels of PR that came out over CineFX/NV30 has left a bad taste in many mouths given how much has actually panned out.

All of this has contributed to some fairly bad perceptions at the moment - its not "anti-NVIDIA sentiment" its "anti NVIDIA's actions sentiment" I would say; if they got rid of the optimisations and gave us some comparable DX9 hardware then I'm sure the forums would quiet down again.

And, nVidia still has the vast bulk of the DX9 marketshare AFAIK, the extreme high-end has never been representative of that much in absolute amounts.

Well, last market share numbers showed there was a 60:40 split, so it wasn't a "vast" difference then. Bear in mind though that ATI's 40% consisted largely of 9700 and 9800 class products since 9500 was available in pretty limited quantities and 9600 was only just available in that Q - so you begin to see that the extreme high end has had quite an impact in the market.

However, although in "absolute terms" the high end may not represent the whole market, that doesn't bear much relation to a site like this - the majority of low end sales are going through OEM and SI machines, for which most of the users will have never read a review, and certianly not on a site like this. Most of our interest comes from the mainstream and high end users - for instance our 9800 PRO review has had over three times the number of readers and page views that our 9000 or 5200 reviews ever had. The other issue is that, at the moment, our hits are saying that there generally isn't as much interest in the high end NVIDIA stuff as ATI right now - and they are both getting the same coverage.

 

[jvd]

randycat99- Sorry i can't agree with that. As its my job to read every single thread even if it bores me to death on this forum. There may be more people that dislike sony but the small band of sony enforcers as I call them are much much more vocal. There is normaly myself that will go against sony or at least point out reasons why they may fail and my own feelings on hardware. Chap is normaly against sony and is the only really bad vocal ms nut here. Deadmeat is recent and is very vocal on why some things sony has planned is impossible or unlikely . But the same can go for yourself. Your a pro sony fan that posts in almost every thread that shines sony in a bad light. Vince enjoys posting about how great sony is when sony is attacked. Panja , fala , Paul and some others also stick up for sony. There is a very "fanboy" vibe coming from the site. We all need to fix that. But it goes both ways. We can't just have less people attacking sony. We need less people prasing sony. It goes for all consoles. ALthough the gamecube can use some more loving . Also the curssing needs to stop. I do spend more time editing curses than I do reading the forum

 

[Dave Baumann]

Recently joe and dave have posted with an anti sony slant.

No.

 

[Paul]

Vince enjoys posting about how great sony is when sony is attacked. Panja , fala , Paul and some others also stick up for sony.

Someone's gotta do it. Like you said, "balance"

 

[jvd]

Recently joe and dave have posted with an anti sony slant.

No.

Your right actually , Thats my bad.