How can an American console company succeed in Japan *spinoff

joker454

Veteran
Just found this account of Kinect in Japan, which echoes the problems MS have laways had in making an impact over there. I'm surprised the Japanese haven't taken to Kinect. Maybe MS needs a Japanese style "mental hyperactive psychedelic motion gaming with skirt lifting and monster collecting". :p Although selling a quarter of Move's numbers is good given install base differences, and you'd think from word-of-mouth, interest would increase.

I've been told by Japanese natives on many an occaision that the odds of a western console being accepted there are very low. It's just the way it is apparently. One guy even told me that some of the press there would rather cover a funeral than cover a 360 related event. Why it is that way I have no clue. It might make more sense for Microsoft to release the next console there not under the Microsoft name at all. Perhaps license it to a well loved Japanese firm and let them totally handle it there. I would even consider giving the console a totally different name in Japan compared to the rest of the world. Basically, keep it the Xbox 720 in the rest of the world, and something totally different for the Japanese version, but it would play the same games.
 
Just found this account of Kinect in Japan, which echoes the problems MS have laways had in making an impact over there. I'm surprised the Japanese haven't taken to Kinect. Maybe MS needs a Japanese style "mental hyperactive psychedelic motion gaming with skirt lifting and monster collecting". :p Although selling a quarter of Move's numbers is good given install base differences, and you'd think from word-of-mouth, interest would increase.

The way they designed Kinect means that they didn't care about Japan. If they had cared, they wouldn't have released it there with its current technical limitations / space requirements. It's just unworkable right now. Even on gaming podcasts I regularly (again just this morning in the Eurogamer podcast) hear about people who can't play it at their homes, or people who have set it up in a separate, dedicated room, having to rearrange the livingroom, etc. That's going to limit its applicability, and Japan and narrowly populated parts of Europe are going to cover a big part of the off-limits area.

The full body Move stuff which mostly requires it to see just your upper body is already a stretch for me personally in my home. To make it see my full body (which I tested for Singstar Dance, where it is not necessary but nice to be able to at least record your 'full' performance. ;) ) I finally managed to to set it up looking at me sideways, and then I swiveled the TV a little (lucky I have it on a nice arm) so I can stand towards the camera and then look at the screen semi-sideways ...
 
I don't think the Japanese deceived MS ^_^.
oddly a western game, (cod bo) sold ~158k this week in japan

ok thats not so odd, but look at the hardware sales for the week
psp 96k!!! (prolly more than it sells in the us in a month, even with 2.5x the population)

to repeat myself again, japan is completely different to most of the rest of the world (just look at their films) MS made a mistake by trying for a few big titles, the same strategy the use in the west, they would of been better IMO lots of diverse random lesser budget titles. look at the top 30 in japan u often see 'big' (japanese) titles bomb, yet strange unknown titles sell 100s k
 
Fool me once (xbox) shame on Japan. Fool me twice (360) shame on Microsoft. Here's hoping they take Fries' advice next time and don't even bother with Japan (not much different from the current situation anyway with their miniscule user base). There's just way too much effort for so little gain.

Well I'd never abandon that market though! They did the right thing and pressed on in Japan which let them get support of the main Japanese developers like Capcom, Konami, etc. That ultimately was more important than getting support of the Japanese audience itself. Winning over the audience in Japan though should remain a secondary goal for next gen. I'm just not convinced that they can do that under the Microsoft name. Microsoft is already well hated and mistrusted, add in the nation pride thing and it makes it a real uphill battle.


The way they designed Kinect means that they didn't care about Japan. If they had cared, they wouldn't have released it there with its current technical limitations / space requirements. It's just unworkable right now.

Yeah it is a space hog, but so is Move no? Realistically if you don't have space for Kinect, will you really have space to use Move? You need room to swing those arms around one way or another. I mean does Sports Champions really work well in a typical Japanese room?
 
Well I'd never abandon that market though! They did the right thing and pressed on in Japan which let them get support of the main Japanese developers like Capcom, Konami, etc. That ultimately was more important than getting support of the Japanese audience itself.

True and i share your view in not abondoning the japanese market, but they would also get the support from konami, capcom and the other big ones like Sega if they abondoned the jap market. These companies make 360 games cause of the sales in the west not in the east.

Winning over the audience in Japan though should remain a secondary goal for next gen. I'm just not convinced that they can do that under the Microsoft name. Microsoft is already well hated and mistrusted, add in the nation pride thing and it makes it a real uphill battle.

Same crap you often hear about japan, but truth (main reason) is the competition is just better ...
 
No it's not only my opinion, or do you really think Microsoft has the best product for the japanese Market and have the lowest sales because they are a foreign company or they are Microsoft ?

It is your opinion. It's impossible to qualify "best" for any sort of art or entertainment except on a very personal level.

Is it fact that Britney Spears was the absolute best singer at the height of her popularity? And thus all other singers of the time were clearly inferior and thus why they didn't sell as many albums? :)

By the same reasoning, COD: BO is by far the best game made for consoles this generation for PS3/X360 right as it appears to have completely blown away the past sales record by COD: MW2? I'm guessing you'd have people with a differing opinion.

Regards,
SB
 
By the same reasoning, COD: BO is by far the best game made for consoles this generation for PS3/X360 right as it appears to have completely blown away the past sales record by COD: MW2? I'm guessing you'd have people with a differing opinion.

Maybe it's the Americans who are xenophobic?
They buy CoD, because Treyarch and Infinity Ward are American..
While if DICE weren't swedish, Battlefield would be the big seller?

Same thing with consoles, and cars.. inferior products on the market wich easily breaks down, and people buy it because it's American.. :-/
Same thing with Brintney, you guys saw her on Disney-channell, an all american girl, wich looks nice on the cover, you buy the record.. :-/

Kind of stupid way to think about it that way, isn't it?
If it's yourself who are going to use the product, it dosn't matter much where it comes from, does it? That's why child-labour is so popular in low-cost countries, people do not care where things come from..

The logical conclusion is that Microsoft dosn't cater to Japanesese people as good as Sony or Nintendo do, and that's why Japaneese people buy more of the last two corporations products, because in the end; it's they who're going to play the games.

That xenophobia theory doesn't hold water.
Microsoft is succesfull in other parts of the japaneese markets, and Apple is sucesfull too. :-/

Also have in mind that the Live-service Microsoft bring to Japan (or Europe) is inferior to what they bring to the market in the states.
And we don't get the extra services like Netflix, and ESPN, either..
But we still gotta pay for online access to the games, and in most cases, more than you Americans do. :-/

Our video-store (Norway)..
There is no subtitles, wich we are used to from all other services wich provide video-rentals, or movies on TV or whatever. We're too small market that Microsoft bothers to make it the standard wich we are used to. :-/
 
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It is your opinion. It's impossible to qualify "best" for any sort of art or entertainment except on a very personal level.

Is it fact that Britney Spears was the absolute best singer at the height of her popularity? And thus all other singers of the time were clearly inferior and thus why they didn't sell as many albums? :)

By the same reasoning, COD: BO is by far the best game made for consoles this generation for PS3/X360 right as it appears to have completely blown away the past sales record by COD: MW2? I'm guessing you'd have people with a differing opinion.

Regards,
SB

TBH, I think an argument can be made in this area that the "best" product is, in fact, the product that sells the best. It all depends on your point of view. If you want to talk about Britney Spears, her music was produced and marketed to the point where her music was the most appealing to the largest (if not the broadest) number of people to the point where they were willing to pay for it more often than anyone else. IMO, there is the possibility to make an objective point, it's not necessarily entirely subjective.

Of course, OTOH, if I was forced to only be able to listen to the collected works of one artist for the rest of my life, let's just say Britney Spears would not be my first choice.
 

The thing is with many of the Asian countries (Japan especially) there's a very strong resistence to anything not originating in that country or marketed by a corporation in that country. High priced luxury goods are generally an exception to this.

There's always examples, especially if a foreign company can significantly undercut the price of products sold or marketed by a Japanese corporation.

Foreign cars not built by Mercedes have a hard time getting sold. BMW has picked up some steam but still lags far behind. VW, one of the worlds premiere car makers is virtually non-existant. Ford and Chevy have a small presence. Kia and Hyundai, non-existant.

How about consumer electronics? Samsung and LG are two of the worlds largest producers of TVs. Well, except in Japan. Although they've managed to get a small foothold. But it's even more difficult for Korean companies to break into the Japanese market than it is for US companies. Doesn't mean there aren't the occasional exceptions (7-11 for example is the largest convenience store chain, and McDonalds does quite well), but they remain that, very small exceptions in a country that generally avoids foreign products when possible.

It also helps when the government itself makes it difficult to sell foreign product in the country.

Unlike the US, and I assume most European countries, Asian countries don't mind putting tariffs on products to protect their businesses in addition to just plain making it extremely difficult to sell foreign products. This is just an example of how anti-foreign products the country as a whole can be for most things.

Regards,
SB
 
How about consumer electronics? Samsung and LG are two of the worlds largest producers of TVs. Well, except in Japan. Although they've managed to get a small foothold. But it's even more difficult for Korean companies to break into the Japanese market than it is for US companies. Doesn't mean there aren't the occasional exceptions (7-11 for example is the largest convenience store chain, and McDonalds does quite well), but they remain that, very small exceptions in a country that generally avoids foreign products when possible.


Regards,
SB

7-11 is a japanese company.
 
Unlike the US, and I assume most European countries, Asian countries don't mind putting tariffs on products to protect their businesses in addition to just plain making it extremely difficult to sell foreign products. This is just an example of how anti-foreign products the country as a whole can be for most things.

I were speaking from a consumers point of view, they're not xenophobic, but it's not simple at all bringing products into the states either..
My own company, forinstance, wanted to start a US branch by building a factory and setting up a few boats and some infrastructure for that factory in the states a few years ago.

The raw-material we wanted to buy and process further, were being dug into the ground, or dumped at sea, since it's beeing concidered as disposals in the states.
It's bio-degradable, so the enviromental damage by doing that isn't permanent, if it's done really carefully, but it's much better if they'd sell it to us.
We're currently handling about around 5 thousands of tonnes fish-disposals monthly, wich the US fish-industry spend lots of money to dump.

We'd probably create abit more than 100 US workplaces in our american branch, if we'd build something along the scale as the branch, I work at.
In addition it would be a new enviromental friendly industry, and a nice extra income for the american fish industry,

Unfortunately, it were impossible to convince US goverment that we could do it, even tough we've done it for two decades now.
We couldn't get a permit to build the factories, to show them how we did it, and they didn't thrust the documentation we brought over, since they weren't american.

We set up an american company with american partners owning half the shares..
Then we got abit further, now we were allowed to demonstrate the process.
But we still couldn't set up the necesarry factory, until we could proove how we did it in America.
So.. We built a factory-ship for this purpose, it took a few hundred million, and a few years.

But when it were done the FCC refused the ship entry to American territories, because they feared that we would rebuild the ship and start competing with landbased fish-industry, wich we wanted to buy the disposals from in the first place. :-/
We paid another 20 millions of dollar in docking fees sitting still at the docks, hoping to convince the FCC to let it into the states, to prove that we weren't making fish-bombs... And after a while it where decided it's not worth it anymore, the Americans were crazy, and we'd earn back our losses and expand in Chile or somewhere else instead,. :-/

So thrust me, it's pretty 'difficult' for foreigners to get their product into the US market aswell, the beurocracy is ipretty nsane.
It's probably not any dance on roses Europe either, I guess.
We also got tariff's and similar, in order to protect the natvie workforce
Didn't mean to go to far off topic.

Also the Japaneese media get easier access to Kojima than Cliff Blezinski, and they probably advertise more in their own media than Epic do,
When Dengeki comes out, it's more likely that you''ll be more likely to see a interview with Suda or someone than Gabe Newell.
And Japaneese gamers are grown up with Anime-mangas, more than superheroes, and might prefer to have stories reflecting that.

I think it's much more likely that cultural differences are the reason why consumer-habits vary, rather than xenophobia.
 
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Setting up a foreign company is very different to selling a product. MS has their product in Japan, and other companies can get distributors too, but people aren't buying. That's not a problem with national beaurocracy, but a problem with the public buying. Whether that's routed in the product offering or nationalism, I don't know. Also does Japan levy restricitive tariffs to discourage imports? They're a member of the WTO and GATT, so should be abiding by the same standards as other open markets.
 
The thing is with many of the Asian countries (Japan especially) there's a very strong resistence to anything not originating in that country or marketed by a corporation in that country. High priced luxury goods are generally an exception to this.

There's always examples, especially if a foreign company can significantly undercut the price of products sold or marketed by a Japanese corporation.

Foreign cars not built by Mercedes have a hard time getting sold. BMW has picked up some steam but still lags far behind. VW, one of the worlds premiere car makers is virtually non-existant. Ford and Chevy have a small presence. Kia and Hyundai, non-existant.

Yes and no. Traditionally, I don't think American cars are competitive internationally because of the exchange rates and other reasons. European cars tend to be more expensive. Dealership charge too much. The servicing and parts are usually more expensive than Japanese cars. Given the reliability, fuel economy, Japanese cars are extremely popular in other Asian countries, and even globally.

At the high end, price and fuel economy don't matter as much. The European luxury cars together with Lexus are more popular. The more exclusive/expensive/luxurious, the better. But US made cars are missing out again.

Hyundai is also popular in other Asian countries for similar reasons.

China and Japan are more nationalistic. China requires foreign car makers to set up joint venture with majority Chinese ownership. They form the bulk of the consumer car market, compared to fully local ones.

The Japanese domestic car industry is very competitive. There are local models, not intended for other markets. If you want to sell there, you may want to beat them in other markets first.

How about consumer electronics? Samsung and LG are two of the worlds largest producers of TVs. Well, except in Japan. Although they've managed to get a small foothold. But it's even more difficult for Korean companies to break into the Japanese market than it is for US companies. Doesn't mean there aren't the occasional exceptions (7-11 for example is the largest convenience store chain, and McDonalds does quite well), but they remain that, very small exceptions in a country that generally avoids foreign products when possible.

It may have more to do with branding, trust, marketing than nationalism. The younger generation don't hate Koreans. Sometimes, consumers don't know who owns the company anyway (like your 7-11 example above)

While iPod does well in Japan, it tanked in Korea because their consumers prefer devices with lots of features compared to simple, gimped ones.

It also helps when the government itself makes it difficult to sell foreign product in the country.

Unlike the US, and I assume most European countries, Asian countries don't mind putting tariffs on products to protect their businesses in addition to just plain making it extremely difficult to sell foreign products. This is just an example of how anti-foreign products the country as a whole can be for most things.

That's true but in Asian countries with no such tariffs, American products may not sell well too. The exchange rate/pricing, design may not fit local needs. Traditionally, many American companies don't rely on Asian markets. Many bought local companies because it's easier and quicker to bootstrap there. Similarly when an Asian company wants to enter US market, they may also buy an existing US company to get in.
 
I would say a big part of it is simply that they are already serviced domesticaly in the areas talked about. They have electronics and cars etc well taken care of so there is much less need to look for imports in those cases.

In the case of 360 it could be said that the only reason it is ahead in US is because it is an american product, and that its out of line with what we see in other markets. On the flipside it may not be that japan is anti-american but instead pro japan in the same way. In UK vauxhall sells huge numbers of cars, due mainly alot to domestic production i would assume but hardly any american cars are sold. Doesnt have anything to do with being anti american.
 
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how many of the previous consoles are american?
all atari
according to wiki, sega was started in honolulu but now has its headquarters in tokyo (thus i assume jap company)
any other american consoles?
 
7-11 is a japanese company.

That wasn't always the case. It was founded in the US back in the 40's, but it wasn't till 1991 that it became a Japanese company. Talk to anybody & they believe it's an American company. Just so happens it's no longer owned by Americans.

Tommy McClain
 
how many of the previous consoles are american?
all atari
according to wiki, sega was started in honolulu but now has its headquarters in tokyo (thus i assume jap company)
any other american consoles?

3DO is probably the only other one. Except that they used Japanese companies to build the units.

BTW, before the Xbox, 3DO was the last console system I was really excited about. That was mainly due it being new & different than the big 2, but being started by a US company helped too. I had the same reasons for liking the Xbox too. Guess I'm somewhat of a nationalist. All of my electronics have all been by companies that got started in the US or owned in the US.

Tommy McClain
 
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