Heavenly Sword (wow)

[DeanoC]

Okay this is being taken out of context and mixing two completely different framerate. As an animator Guy (and his team) add points to the animation curve, that could add them at whatever rate gives them enough quality. At the maya level, they make sure its looks good if played back at 60fps, these curves are converted for use in the ingame engine. This then samples them as required, we render at 30fps, so the animations is sampled 30 times per second. However because time is flexible a second in maya time can take alot longer, which is where the extra data they added helps...

We don't use collisions directly in the combat system, but we have still have collisions. Instead of using the collision system to tell us when the sword actually hits the opponent we use closely timed animations... The advantage is there is no 'randomity' to our combat, Sai (the combat designer) controls exactly when and how successful a strike is...

But thats just for detemining damage/hits... we use a collision and physics (Havok 4 in fact) ALOT. So if u throw a sword at somebody its just what u would expect... the only oddity is that we don't use that in the combat engine...

 

[mckmas8808]

Okay this is being taken out of context and mixing two completely different framerate. As an animator Guy (and his team) add points to the animation curve, that could add them at whatever rate gives the enough quality. At the maya level, they They make sure its looks good if played back at 60fps, these curves are converted for use in the ingame engine. This then samples them as required, we render at 30fps, so the animations is sampled 30 times per second. However because time is flexible a second in maya time can take alot longer, which is where the extra data they added helps...

We don't use collisions directly in the combat system, but we have still have collisions. Instead of using the collision system to tell us when the sword actually hits the opponent we use closely timed animations... The advantage is there is no 'randomity' to our combat, Sai (the combat designer) controls exactly when and how successful a strike is...

But thats just for detemining damage/hits... we use a collision and physics (Havok 4 in fact) ALOT. So if u throw a sword at somebody its just what u would expect... the only oddity is that we don't use that in the combat engine...

Thanks DeanoC. Now to post this in other boards before those other guys say you downgraded the game to 30 fps when you release the game expecting 60 fps.:smile:

 

[cthellis42]

HS is going to run at 60fps and have chrome nazis! Alert the media!

 

[Laa-Yosh]

The fact that he says the animations are running at 60fps makes me wonder if possibly the animation part of the engine is running that fast vs the whole thing. Not sure, but it doesn't seem like a confirmation that the graphics we see on the screen will be 60fps. Who knows though..

60 fps animations can make sense considering the slow motion scripted sequences...

Edit: haven't seen DeanoC's explanation...

 

[DeanoC]

HS is going to run at 60fps and have chrome nazis! Alert the media!

Hey, if Sony PR think I've leaked the chrome nazis feature, i'm a dead man... we've been perfecting our chrome shaders and nazis AI for years but aren't ready yet to reveal it to the world...



And if people miss thats a piss-take and a joke.... kill me now

 

[ShootMyMonkey]

Hey, if Sony PR think I've leaked the chrome nazis feature, i'm a dead man... we've been perfecting our chrome shaders and nazis AI for years but aren't ready yet to reveal it to the world...

Bah, we're still prepared to trump everybody with our Quantum Hitler technology. Our string-based physics engine individually simulates each and every wave-particle in multiple places simultaneously. Still working on the entanglement part of the problem, though. That's a toughie.

 

[Gradthrawn]

Hey, if Sony PR think I've leaked the chrome nazis feature, i'm a dead man... we've been perfecting our chrome shaders and nazis AI for years but aren't ready yet to reveal it to the world...

Damn that sounds pretty sweet. But how the hell did you find Nazis and get them into a Mo-Cap room to capture their trademark march and "salute?" I bet suiting them up in a Mo-Cap suit was a pain too.

 

[Kittonwy]

We don't use collisions directly in the combat system, but we have still have collisions. Instead of using the collision system to tell us when the sword actually hits the opponent we use closely timed animations... The advantage is there is no 'randomity' to our combat, Sai (the combat designer) controls exactly when and how successful a strike is...

I don't understand your point with the "randomity". The character swings a weapon, during that time, depending on the distance from the enemy and the reach of the weapon, the weapon either contacts the collision box of the enemy, resulting in a hit, or it doesn't, what's so random about that? Whether a weapon hits an enemy shouldn't have anything to do with the animations, both VF and SC use collision detection, right? How can the combat system be modelled after those two if it doesn't use collision to determine when a hit has occurred?

 

[AlNom]

But will it be "made for Germans"?

 

[DeanoC]

I don't understand your point with the "randomity". The character swings a weapon, during that time, depending on the distance from the enemy and the reach of the weapon, the weapon either contacts the collision box of the enemy, resulting in a hit, or it doesn't, what's so random about that? Whether a weapon hits an enemy shouldn't have anything to do with the animations, both VF and SC use collision detection, right? How can the combat system be modelled after those two if it doesn't use collision to determine when a hit has occurred?

Its random because its impossible to time button pushing accurately... A combat string consists of pushing buttons at precise times, you can either tie the button pushes to the physical collision state (i.e. you must push x within N ms of a strike) or tie the collision state to the button push (if X is pushed after N ms you make a strike). We do the later, this allows us to tune the combat to a rhythm, a good player can 'play' the combat strings just like a guitarist plays different notes...

Combat engines aren't about realism its about feeling good... We decided to bypass the problems of not knowing exactly the state (because a collision based system has different timing based on distance etc.) to be able to provide a more complex and kung fu movie style.

The trick is then to have enough animations and enough data to make it all hang together and feel real etc. As nobody even noticed we didn't use collision until we said so, I'd say its a pretty convincing illusion

We are not modelled after VF and SC, they are inspirations. Cos they rock... (big VF2 fan here ). We wanted to achieve that level of quality but in a very different game (not 1 on 1)...

 

[Kittonwy]

Its random because its impossible to time button pushing accurately... A combat string consists of pushing buttons at precise times, you can either tie the button pushes to the physical collision state (i.e. you must push x within N ms of a strike) or tie the collision state to the button push (if X is pushed after N ms you make a strike). We do the later, this allows us to tune the combat to a rhythm, a good player can 'play' the combat strings just like a guitarist plays different notes...

Combat engines aren't about realism its about feeling good... We decided to bypass the problems of not knowing exactly the state (because a collision based system has different timing based on distance etc.) to be able to provide a more complex and kung fu movie style.

The trick is then to have enough animations and enough data to make it all hang together and feel real etc. As nobody even noticed we didn't use collision until we said so, I'd say its a pretty convincing illusion

We are not modelled after VF and SC, they are inspirations. Cos they rock... (big VF2 fan here ). We wanted to achieve that level of quality but in a very different game (not 1 on 1)...

I'm sorry but I'm kind of puzzled by your explanation. Hitting the enemy with a combo has to do with the weapon consecutively coming into contact with the enemy's collision box, if the enemy isn't within the range of the weapon, the hit doesn't happen, regardless of whether it's the first hit, second hit, third hit, etc. Consecutive moves using a weapon depend on pressing the button within the time frame the animation provides but that doesn't govern whether the enemy is being hit or not, you could be doing a combo perfectly and not hit anything if the enemy does not come within range of the weapon for a collision to occur. And regardless of whether the first move hits anything or not, a combo system should allow a player to perform the second move, third move, etc, regardless of whether the move itself hits anything, aside from context-dependent moves like grapples (in which case collision doesn't matter once the grapple is secured. If you take away collision, then actually hitting the enemy and evasion are both kind of canned, in a way taking away the skill involved. How can skill be applied if the player is no longer able to control whether a hit (by either the player or by the enemy) occurs or not? Are enemies locked into a combo then? Is the player locked into a combo then? How can the player or the enemy evade if the combat is not based on collision? I hope I'm not being rude but I still don't quite get what you guys are trying to do, so please be patient and help me understand.

 

[Synergy34]

I can't stand Heavenly Sword threads, all this cold fusion mumbo jumbo. I need gameplay details, is it gonna be set up like Devil May Cry, God of War etc.. Can we walk around towns like in RPG's?

I am so looking forward to a real in depth feature, everything else is such a tease

 

[Ben-Nice]

I have one question for the devs. How come there is no jump button? I'm not sure if it has been explained before but I'm curious. I'm assuming there is an important reason for not including it since most action adventure fighting games use jumping.

 

[mistan]

I have one question for the devs. How come there is no jump button? I'm not sure if it has been explained before but I'm curious. I'm assuming there is an important reason for not including it since most action adventure fighting games use jumping.

Because it would mean that they would have to add hundreds of more animations

But seriously, Zelda doesnt have a Jump button?
Why are ppl soooo concerned about there being a jump button without knowing exactly how the game plays. Its not like you kno whether or not you need a jump button. I dont understand the fuss.... :/

 

[cthellis42]

Most importantly, will there be a scene where Nariko frolicks on the beach with her girlfriends, playing volleyball, and stretching in interesting directions?

 

[babcat]

Not being able to jump (if that turns out to be the case) will be indeed very bizzare. I'm not sure how the game is played, but lets say you are standing on a cliff or platform and want to jump down ontop of an enemy and strike him or her. How would you go about doing that? When you need to get to a higher platform or jump down from an area does the engine do it automatically and judge where you need to land?

 

[patsu]

Most importantly, will there be a scene where Nariko frolicks on the beach with her girlfriends, playing volleyball, and stretching in interesting directions?

Yes. Rumors of "Heavenly Ball" has been brewing in my study room for some time now.

 

[inefficient]

I'm sorry but I'm kind of puzzled by your explanation. Hitting the enemy with a combo has to do with the weapon consecutively coming into contact with the enemy's collision box, if the enemy isn't within the range of the weapon, the hit doesn't happen, regardless of whether it's the first hit, second hit, third hit, etc. Consecutive moves using a weapon depend on pressing the button within the time frame the animation provides but that doesn't govern whether the enemy is being hit or not, you could be doing a combo perfectly and not hit anything if the enemy does not come within range of the weapon for a collision to occur. And regardless of whether the first move hits anything or not, a combo system should allow a player to perform the second move, third move, etc, regardless of whether the move itself hits anything, aside from context-dependent moves like grapples (in which case collision doesn't matter once the grapple is secured. If you take away collision, then actually hitting the enemy and evasion are both kind of canned, in a way taking away the skill involved. How can skill be applied if the player is no longer able to control whether a hit (by either the player or by the enemy) occurs or not? Are enemies locked into a combo then? Is the player locked into a combo then? How can the player or the enemy evade if the combat is not based on collision? I hope I'm not being rude but I still don't quite get what you guys are trying to do, so please be patient and help me understand.

I believe NT is handling it exactly the same way fighting was handled pre-Virtua Fighter 4.

For a 1 vs 1 fighting it makes sense to have an advanced collision system. But it seems they didn't feel it was nessasary for the type of game they are creating (1 vs many). I think the idea is to go for crazy fun not real world fighting mechanics.

 

[Platon]

Not being able to jump (if that turns out to be the case) will be indeed very bizzare. I'm not sure how the game is played, but lets say you are standing on a cliff or platform and want to jump down ontop of an enemy and strike him or her. How would you go about doing that? When you need to get to a higher platform or jump down from an area does the engine do it automatically and judge where you need to land?

Easy, you just don't set the player up for those kind of situations...

 

[babcat]

But jumping allows you to do so many things and allows for so many possibilities. It's very difficult for me to imagine not being able to jump. Especially, since I'm an uber powerful person carrying a magical sword! I would expect that Nariko could jump very, very far and do all kinds of cool things. Imagine arial attacks, climbing and then jumping down, and all kinds of cool stuff jumping could allow.