Heavenly Sword (wow)

[Kittonwy]

I can't stand Heavenly Sword threads, all this cold fusion mumbo jumbo. I need gameplay details, is it gonna be set up like Devil May Cry, God of War etc.. Can we walk around towns like in RPG's?

I am so looking forward to a real in depth feature, everything else is such a tease

I agree in that I would rather learn about how the game plays than how many frames per sec the animation system runs at. I think they've pretty much gotten people to agree that this will be a marvelous graphical showcase with great animations, now I'm much more interested in gameplay execution.

 

[mistan]

But jumping allows you to do so many things and allows for so many possibilities. It's very difficult for me to imagine not being able to jump. Especially, since I'm an uber powerful person carrying a magical sword! I would expect that Nariko could jump very, very far and do all kinds of cool things. Imagine arial attacks, climbing and then jumping down, and all kinds of cool stuff jumping could allow.

Has anyone ever played a Zelda game?!

 

[Blade]

I'm late to the party on this one, but, yeah. Awesome trailer.

 

[V3]

I believe NT is handling it exactly the same way fighting was handled pre-Virtua Fighter 4.

For a 1 vs 1 fighting it makes sense to have an advanced collision system. But it seems they didn't feel it was nessasary for the type of game they are creating (1 vs many). I think the idea is to go for crazy fun not real world fighting mechanics.

What do you mean pre Virtua Fighter 4 ? Virtua Fighter 4 most likely use the same method, so is VF5.

Fighting Games, that have execution/hit/recovery frame is generally not physics base. They are rule base. Like Dungeon and Dragon or Final Fantasy combat, VF4 is rule base. Its just played at a much faster rate compare to RPG.

There is no randomness in VF4 or VF5. You can do the same thing over and over again and get the same outcome.

Fighting games that is physics base, can be unpredictable for the player. Say one fighter is throwing a punch, in physics base fighter, doesn't have a rule when that punch will connect. It can connect early on during the wind up or it can miss completely and instead get an accidental headbutt that register as a hit in the game physics engine.

 

[Kittonwy]

What do you mean pre Virtua Fighter 4 ? Virtua Fighter 4 most likely use the same method, so is VF5.

Fighting Games, that have execution/hit/recovery frame is generally not physics base. They are rule base. Like Dungeon and Dragon or Final Fantasy combat, VF4 is rule base. Its just played at a much faster rate compare to RPG.

There is no randomness in VF4 or VF5. You can do the same thing over and over again and get the same outcome.

Fighting games that is physics base, can be unpredictable for the player. Say one fighter is throwing a punch, in physics base fighter, doesn't have a rule when that punch will connect. It can connect early on during the wind up or it can miss completely and instead get an accidental headbutt that register as a hit in the game physics engine.

Having collision does not mean the game is physics based, games like DMC1/3, NG and God of War use hit detection, and hits aren't random at all.

 

[cthellis42]

Has anyone ever played a Zelda game?!

Sure! The Adventure of Link had you hopping all over the place!

 

[V3]

Having collision does not mean the game is physics based, games like DMC1/3, NG and God of War use hit detection, and hits aren't random at all.

I am not sure what you are getting at. Having collision has nothing to do with randomness, its what you use to determine collision and its result that will determine it. All those games like VF4 have collision and hit detection and stuff, its just they are not determine by physics, but rather game rules. How do you intend to hit the opponent if you don't have collision build into game rules?

VF4 for example has execution/hit/recovery for its attack. Collision are only determine during the hit part only. You can dash forward after the hit phase of the opponent attack without worrying that you will collide and head butt the opponent face while he is recovering. Similarly with DMC3, In DMC3 when Dante rolls he has some invincible frames when nothing will hit him. Similarly at the early execution bit of his jump, Dante is invincible too, which you can take advantage of with technique like jump-parry.

If it is physics base combat, it would be consistent and only physics rule are applied. Outcome has to be simulated instead of just lookup table or something like that, possibilities are endless. It would be impossible to do Dante tricks in DMC3 if DMC3 were to use real physics base combat.

 

[DemoCoder]

If you are doing physics based fighting, then the only way to make it good and not "jerky" and random is to use something like Euphoria. Otherwise, you get the lame effects like a physics attack followed by scripted block reaction or interrupted animation. Very lame and jarring.

 

[mistan]

Sure! The Adventure of Link had you hopping all over the place!

Heh, but there was no jump "button"

 

[Rolf N]

Heh, but there was no jump "button"

Actually there was.
Adventure of Link was the one game in the series where you could jump anywhere at will. Great game IMO, but apparently the consumer reaction wasn't all that hot.

 

[cthellis42]

Customers are well-renowned to be dumb.

 

[hey69]

GoW doesnt have jump either.
cliffy B said in an interview that jumping wasnt realistic in a open warfare .
(not that his game is REALISTIC anyway )

 

[scooby_dooby]

GoW doesnt have jump either.
cliffy B said in an interview that jumping wasnt realistic in a open warfare .
(not that his game is REALISTIC anyway )

It's not realistic though, who just jumps? It has a mantle command which is way more realistic and imo should become the defacto standard for all games. You don't need to jump, but you should certainly be able to climb over and up onto different objects.

Heavenly Sword is different though, as it's a martial arts game, I have a ton of faith in the developers though, whatever they're doing it's working.

 

[mistan]

Actually there was.
Adventure of Link was the one game in the series where you could jump anywhere at will. Great game IMO, but apparently the consumer reaction wasn't all that hot.

OH GOD
The 3d ones!!!
gosh...
the point is, is that a lot of games dont have a jump button and dont need one

It never hindered the MG/MGS(metal gear) series at all.

 

[heavenlyglory]

Hmm, I'm curious as to how they can take this route (no collision, no jump button) and still make it feel as tight and enjoyable gameplay-wise as a Ninja Gaiden or DMC..

Only way I can think of, is if they jam pack it with canned stuff..which I'm not to big on.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Hmm, I'm curious as to how they can take this route (no collision, no jump button) and still make it feel as tight and enjoyable gameplay-wise as a Ninja Gaiden or DMC..

Many combat games don't have polygon<>polygon collision. That's not a problem here. I think people are just misunderstanding what's happening. It's still going to look just like you've connected weapon to body, even if an intersection point was calculated to an exact value. As for jump button, we've seen plenty of aerial combat. I presume the jumping happens when it's need in the combat. The only difference is you can't just jump around the place like a kangaroo.

Only way I can think of, is if they jam pack it with canned stuff..which I'm not to big on.

Have you seen any other combat game with 1000 different canned animations? I think it's a matter of seeing how it works. I haven't yet heard anyone complain about HS's animations, so whatever system they've employed, it sounds like it works.

 

[V3]

As for jump button, we've seen plenty of aerial combat. I presume the jumping happens when it's need in the combat. The only difference is you can't just jump around the place like a kangaroo.

From video that I've seen the aerial combat that I've seen looks cool, but it seems canned and executed with pre canned button presses. Some part look like a QTE style from Shenmue.

HS will probably have attacks that launch enemy into the air and you have option to follow them up for aerial combo without needing jump button.

In DMC3, jump button play other role other than to jump around like a kangaroo. But I like to make my avatar jump around like kangaroo. For the DMC3 I like the use of jump button for enemy step (using enemy grounded or in the air as platform). Without jump button, you can bring Dante into the air, but he won't stay up for very long, several slashes/attacks and he'll be back on the ground, he gets more slashes/attacks if you cancel and reset those canned animation. But with enemy step and its canceling properties, he can stay up in the air for aerial combat, till the enemy dies.

DMC3 is a more interesting system that way, than if I just input button presses for all the aerial combat canned animation to finish off the enemy. Even if you can cancel and performed different variety of aerial animation, the character staying up in the air, is not your skill/control, but pre canned.

Furthermore in these sort of games, I like short chain if there are pre canned chain of attack compare to long pre canned chain and moves are accessible individually rather than having to go through the pre canned animation set that the moves is part of. As long as each move has unique property that separate them from the others and you have some way of canceling them into each other, it'll be a more interesting game to discover you own chain in an intuitive way, compare to thousands of pre canned animation sets/attacks that you have to remember the chain of button presses for.

Its even better if canceling method that require tight timing, rather than loose timing, this way my hands and eyes won't get bored. If it is loose, I'll group it into button mashers.

 

[Danalys]

so the way i'm reading things is that the characters move changes dependant on distance to the oponant, so you don't have precise control of what move you use and when. it's more like which enemy do i attack first and is it a good time to attack them. perhaps high or low attack matters. but once you've got an initial hit because the opponant wasn't blocking or too far away. then you can follow up, in the same manner. the timing element could vary the damage inflicted. since waiting for the oppertunity for a well timed strike is better. but leaves you open for possible attacks from other opponants.

so in that case you need the large amount of animations to cope with the different distances and keep things visually intresting. mix that up with different weapons, fast to strong attacks, low and high attacks and you get an intresting looking fight working on timing and position, rather than picking the right move string or remembering combinations.

in a way every move becomes a grapple attack from a typical one on one fighting game. there are just far more conditions for if it's a successful grapple or not.

 

[one]

Nina Kristensen interview @ Japanese Playb3yond website (mind you, the interview is in English)
http://www.playbeyond.jp/main.html?item=item20

 

[mckmas8808]

I loooove me some Heavenly Sword. The basis of the story is brillant. It honestly could be a good movie if you ask me. The king's facial features when he yells is on of the big things that next-gen is suppose to give us.

Thank you Ninja Theory. Now just let us play a downloaded demo at launch and I'll be super happy.