Halo 3 engine upgrade analysis (for ODST)

[helvetica bold]

Great article:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/odst-halo-evolved-article

I always thought Halo 3 look great but I'm hoping
ODST will run in 720p.

 

[NRP]

Interesting article. Grandmaster and crew do a fine job.

While I personally don't care much about the rendering resolution, it would be nice if Bungie can add some AA and AF to ODST. I do wonder though if their choice for HDR rendering limits their options here.

 

[Laa-Yosh]

I've almost forgotten just how cool Halo3 can look in some of the levels...

As for engine upgrades, I'd say the tech guys are hard at work on Halo Reach, so we can't really expect more coolness for ODST. However I'd like to see what they can come up with as their second gen tech... They should first try to find a more efficient way to do HDR rendering as the current implementation's memory requirements seem to be a serious bottleneck. I also wonder about what prevents them from using AF...

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Very nice read. And it's good to see the strengths pointed out that lead to some of the compromises with the overall visuals.

Especially nice to see time spent on the split screen modes. Something a LOT of current gen FPS's are sadly lacking.

Also interesting was this blurb...

The original Xbox 360 devkits had exactly the same amount of memory as the retail unit, meaning that the game only had around 335MB of memory for content due to SDK overheads - a deficit of around 50MB. This has been resolved in the new Microsoft kits, and should give Bungie a very useful boost for ODST.

So does this mean that many of X360's first gen games weren't able to fully utilize all the memory of the console?

Regards,
SB

 

[AlNom]

So does this mean that many of X360's first gen games weren't able to fully utilize all the memory of the console?

I believe it just made it more difficult and Bungie ended up not bothering (as there were other important things to worry about). Bioware had similar issues with the 512MB XDKs as well.

 

[DrJay24]

Great article:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/odst-halo-evolved-article

I always thought Halo 3 look great but I'm hoping
ODST will run in 720p.

The article says:

Overall then, despite a fresh new look, we're not seeing any massive advances in the core tech here. The sub-HD resolution and lack of anti-aliasing remain

I've always thought Halo 3 looked like crap, but if ODST takes place at night a lot and they make some grittier textures they can get away from the high contrast look that exposes the low res and no AA.

 

[Chisholm]

I've always thought Halo 3 looked like crap, but if ODST takes place at night a lot and they make some grittier textures they can get away from the high contrast look that exposes the low res and no AA.

As much as the whole sub-HD resolution and lack of AA tend to be mentioned, I find the lack of proper texture filtering far more jarring. The textures in Halo 3 are among the best I've seen in any console game, but they hardly shine because of the poor filtering.

Another problem is the inconsistencies in the art department. Some levels look simply fantastic -Floodgate probably being the best example-, whereas the graphics in others leave a lot to be desired -Cortana, Crow's Nest-.

The people from Bungie have already stated that, even if they're not using a new engine, ODST looks better than Halo 3 because the artist are playing better to its strengths. From what we have seen so far, the city's night landscape looks great, particularly the skyboxes.

In any case, I expect a lot more from Bungie and I hope they deliver with their next engine. As much as I love their current HDR implementation, it would be nice if they could find a better alternative in terms of bandwidth usage.

 

[Neb]

Is AF that taxing for current console hardware?

I mean it strikes me odd since I've been using minimum 8xAF and 2-4xAA for serious in all games where it was applicable since my 9800pro back in the old days. And that was at minimum 1024x768 resolutions or better. Now 16xAF and 4-8XAA is the minimum to pass the "test" unless some slick edge AA solution or such in emergency case.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Another problem is the inconsistencies in the art department. Some levels look simply fantastic -Floodgate probably being the best example-, whereas the graphics in others leave a lot to be desired -Cortana, Crow's Nest-.

Part of that is also due to some of the levels having a large portion of their work started on Xbox. I imagine if they'd postponed the launch by another year or so they could have gotten a more consistent quality throughout.

Regards,
SB

 

[Aeoniss]

Wait wait. This "Deficit" due to Overhead- did this mean that it's 50MB + the 32MB OS?

82MB? Or did the "50MB Deficit" include the 360 OS memory?

 

[grandmaster]

Just a note to say that subsequent to the feature's publication, I've learned that the configuration of the devkit hasn't changed yet, so ODST will most likely be running on the same set-up.

 

[Barbarian]

Wait wait. This "Deficit" due to Overhead- did this mean that it's 50MB + the 32MB OS?

82MB? Or did the "50MB Deficit" include the 360 OS memory?

No, no, this is completely misquoted. The problem was never an OS overhead - this has always been and always will be 32Mb.
What Bungie are saying is that development kits don't have any additional memory, so during development some of the memory is reserved for the game to be able to go through proper testing (asserts, memory tracking for leaks etc). If you disable such test features you can use the spare memory but you can no longer easily test the game which is obviously very dangerous.
On my last project the amount of memory we had to sacrifice was around 20Mb. With enough effort it is possible to find good safe use for it, but I suspect not many developers have the time to deal with this so this memory ends up being unused in the shipping game.
This is a no-issue now since MS announced they will have devkits with extra memory (1Gb instead of 512Mb) which should solve all these issues.

 

[Aeoniss]

No, I'm sorry. I wasn't referring to an OS overhead. What I mean is, is the memory that one must forfeit because of the old SDK kits in addition to the 32MB reserves?

So, what I'm asking is:

It isn't just "32MB" that is untouched by developers, but also (or it USED to be) 20-50MB on top of this simply due to difficulties with the kits?

 

[Rangers]

Edit: Never mind, Barbarian answered.

BTW it's worth noting ODST was literally a one year game . Work began around June last year and the game is said to be (for the most part) done now.

 

[Rangers]

In any case, I expect a lot more from Bungie and I hope they deliver with their next engine. As much as I love their current HDR implementation, it would be nice if they could find a better alternative in terms of bandwidth usage.

Ditto this. I'm fascinated to see Reach..and hope it is their "true next gen" engine so to speak. Otherwise Bungie will have let me down again..

I wonder if we'll have to wait until E3 010 to see Reach

Anybody have the slightest clue when the beta may debut? Does the beta being packed with ODST put any kind of limit on how late it can be or no?

 

[AlNom]

Anybody have the slightest clue when the beta may debut? Does the beta being packed with ODST put any kind of limit on how late it can be or no?

According to their latest podcast, they are being quiet on the particulars. I imagine it will be similar to how the Halo 3 MP Beta turned out to be. i.e. the disc is just a key to unlock and download the beta from marketplace.

 

[helvetica bold]

Wow only one year of dev time for ODST? Its impressive for Bungie –
arent they known for very long development time?

Also is Halo Reach a bigger game, what makes you think it will use
new tech? I was always impressed with the Halo3 engine, sure, some
levels look meh, but thats an art direction issue. There are some levels that
are stunning.

 

[Chisholm]

Wow only one year of dev time for ODST? Its impressive for Bungie –
arent they known for very long development time?

I'm sure it's longer than that if you count pre-production. They already had a teaser ready for last year's E3, so at least they must have had quite a few ideas about where they wanted to go with the game. You also have to remember that they're reusing the Halo 3 engine as well as many assets. Once you factor those and ODST's campaign length -rumoured to be between 4 and 5 hours- it's not surprising that it's taking them much less time than their previous efforts.

 

[NRP]

Why in the hell would a dev kit ship with only 512 MB of memory, especially when extra memory is needed for debugging and such? It can't be a cost issue as I'm sure MS produces far fewer dev kits than retail units. Boggles the mind.

Hopefully Bungie was first in line for the new dev kits.

 

[Colourless]

Dev Kit with 512 was probably because the retail unit was only supposed to have 256 originally.