Well that's what i thought, but still, if that's all that's better, it will look very much dated. Just very "clean". Clean and dated. Like my granma.
GT:HD will be playable at TGS, NOT GT5
- Thread starter hey69
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Well that's what i thought, but still, if that's all that's better, it will look very much dated. Just very "clean". Clean and dated. Like my granma.
Probably true, but I have to say a bucket of AA can make a great deal of difference to perceived image. There's lots of PR shots I've looked at and though 'wow that's good' only to see antialised real-game images that drop the game into a time vortex to yesteryear. Next to PGR3 or Forza2 it'll look rough no doubt, especially the courses, but next to GT4 and PGR2 and other last-gen games, it'll look head and shoulders better. If they release it as a stop-gap it might be embarrassing for Sony but Polyphony would be likely to still make the sales.
mckmas8808
Legend
Totally, but i'm talking about other things that prevent the game from looking absolutely gobsmackingly beautiful, like the repetitive textures, lack of detail textures, lack of pixel shading, low-poly models, outdated lighting model and more... Lots of things that if not addressed, will make GT:HD look crap on 480i TVs compared to, say, Forza 2.
DuckThor Evil
Legend
Actually, you are a little bit mistaken. Have you ever looked at photo-mode pictures on your normal TV? They don't quite look as bad as the normal game, do they? Of course there are some tricks with higher resolutions through interlacing, but also some of the car data is higher resolution than you get to see in the actual game on PS2.
The most notable example of this are the wheels - these are rendered in photo-mode as full and quite detailed 3d models, where in the game they are rendered with a mixture of a basic 3d shape with a 2d bitmap pasted and animated onto it.
I find GT:HD rather amusing ... I linked the Photo Mode to a PS3 version myself very early after GT4's release more than once.
Arwin said:Another interesting thing is that PD have in this way done a lot of clever groundwork for the PS3 version of this game. All it calculates for photomode will then be done in realtime, and I think photo mode gives you an impression of what the next game is going to look like. But I don't even want to think about that right now.
(proof: http://forums.gttimes.com/viewtopic.php?p=152723&highlight=photo+mode#152723)
Elsewhere I've said that I hoped they would do something like this with GT4's Photo Mode stuff and Online features for the PS3, so that we wouldn't have to wait until the next GT5 comes out in late 2008 or something.
I don't think some of the things will be quite that bad. The texture quality and repetition will stand out, as will billboard scenery and the like. For the cars though, if it is photo-mode at 60 fps, with their upped model quality and lighting quality, which was already good in GT4, the perceivable difference between GT4 and Forza 2 will be much less. (Actually at this point I'm reminded of a topic held yonks back about rendering at higher resolutions in which GT4 was talked about.)
If you look at some of the photomode and PR images like
http://ars2.iad.cachefly.net/reviews/games/raceoff.media/gt4-2.jpg
http://www.complex-solution.de/gameaction/screens/las-vegas-5.jpg
http://unratedgames.net/wp-content/uploads/2006/04/Gran Turismo 4.jpg
you see the cars are already looking very good and there isn't a huge amount to be improved on to get photorealistic. That in realtime on SD sets (AA+downsizing) would still rate highly I think. Of course while actually playing it'll be very different as you see less of the cars and more of the scenery, but in replays and promo mode with rolling demos on a kiosk, it'll look quite convincing
Do we have any in-game shots of Forza 2 for comparison yet? We don't know how that'll look on SD sets. This might prove an interesting insight into how much IQ affects perception of quality, and whether 'less complex shading with loads of AA' >> 'complex shading with less AA' or not.
I've tried to get some shots from photo-mode and photo-travel, so you can see that for photo-travel, there are some hi-resolution RIM models available. I'm assuming that they'll use these in GT-HD, which would upp the poly-count for the cars a reasonable bit.
I'll try to make better shots myself sometime later (these were leeched off the net), but this should be good enough to give you an idea.
I'll try to make better shots myself sometime later (these were leeched off the net), but this should be good enough to give you an idea.
Hmm... It WOULD make a helluva promotion for their online services if it were offered as a free download, wouldn't it? Or a "pre-installation" on the drive that could be re-downloaded later on if they clear it for storage? Guess that all depends how big they'd be making it.
What's Photo-travel?
Photo Travel is when you use one of the special 15 locations added as 3D backdrops for taking pictures of your cars. Among these are a fish-market, the grand canyon, a convention centre and a few others. These locations have extra high-detail.
Only when you are using Photo Travel do you get the higher resolution RIMS. I just checked and looked at some car models in GT:HD and they are indeed using 3D rims.
Edit: more details on photo travel here:
http://www.gamerhelp.com/ps2/GranTurismo4/107105.shtml
Edit2: and I remembered one of my own favorite shots I made using one of the photo travel locations:
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I've tried to get some shots from photo-mode and photo-travel, so you can see that for photo-travel, there are some hi-resolution RIM models available. I'm assuming that they'll use these in GT-HD, which would upp the poly-count for the cars a reasonable bit.
I'll try to make better shots myself sometime later (these were leeched off the net), but this should be good enough to give you an idea.
Arwin, GT4 uses the same rim models for any photoshot mode, regardless of it being replay- or photo-travel -based. what you see on those two pics is a rim in perfect still condition and a rim with temporal blur. you can do the following experiment: go in replay photomode, and shoot a rim at max ISO speed. observe.
GT4 uses the same photomode assets regardless of the photo-session location - i.e. track or no track.
Shifty Geezer said:
the picturesque sight-seeing locations deliberately put in for photo sessions. you can't drive there, you can just photo-shoot there. the game calls those 'photo travel'.
I'm 100% sure. If the picture above isn't clear enough for you, then go ahead and try it yourself if you can. Park any car on a normal track in photo replay mode, take your picture with the wheel visible at a good angle, and save it to USB. Then got to photo mode, take a location like the one I used above for the R32, and take a picture from the same angle.
You'll see that I am right. You have just proven that the graphics guys from PD do an excellent job though.
@ LB - it's worth checking out the latest screens from Forza 2 to see how well GT:HD actually stands up visually. This is both scarey testament to the lack of advancement in Forza's rendering, and scarey testament to the insane attention to detail and the invention of the photo-mode in GT4!
GT:HD might not look quite the dog next to real next-gen racers that we'd at first assume.
GT:HD might not look quite the dog next to real next-gen racers that we'd at first assume.
Sorry for being pedantic, but PS3's GT4's rims are 2d during gameplay, 2d during Photo Mode (i.e. Photo Mode during saved replays or in Photo Drive), but 3d in Photo Travel ...
@Shifty: Yes, but I do hope that means they get at least a few effects going, because otherwise it's still going to look a bit bland compared to competing games.
EDIT: Hmm, yes those Forza 2 screens don't look too hot. But then we have to remember of course that it's all about the stuff you can do to the car to customise it.
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And let's not forget that GT4 in PS2 already supports 1080i...
If there isn't any graphical upgrade (HDR,AA,AF,damage? ) what's the point of buying this game exept online?
12 cars is more than 6 too, of course. And the 1080i mode isn't available in PAL. Also, the 1080i isn't 100% native, but cleverly upscaled, if I remember correctly. Also, from the looks of it, you'll be able to do both motorbikes from Tourist Trophy and cars from GT4. There was also a hint of possible downloadable cars ...
I'm guessing the sound will also be slightly improved - most of this was synthesized, so they could easily upgrade the output quality.
We'll just have to wait till TGS for more info.
