GT HD Premium = GT5 Prologue | GT HD Classic = GT:HD at E3

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dfan said:
No, i was referring to the engine noises.. and how they still sound poor, like a weed wacker :D
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I can't really hear the engine well in the video, but the Elise only has a 2zz Celica engine in it. At idle, it'll sound like a tractor (chuga-chuga-chuga), and you it tends to drone when in the throttle. It does sound like an animal about to break its chain when it hits lift though. :D PEACE.
 
Hardknock said:
Interesting. So the environments have pre-baked lighting like the PS2 days again? And they're still using highres 2D bitmaps for the backgrounds? Looks pretty decent although there appears to be some nasty aliasing going on which I would've hoped 1080p would help to alleviate.
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The bg is not a bitmap. The bg is some simple geometry with bump-maps. There was a fly-through scene in one of the TGS demos. As for the pre-baked lighting, we'll have to see if any of that stuff is in the final game. Kinda hard to tell what's prebaked when the lighting is so static, though. This game will look f'ing incredible when shipped. PEACE.
 
MechanizedDeath said:
I can't really hear the engine well in the video, but the Elise only has a 2zz Celica engine in it. At idle, it'll sound like a tractor (chuga-chuga-chuga), and you it tends to drone when in the throttle. It does sound like an animal about to break its chain when it hits lift though. :D PEACE.
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Yeah i agree, when VTEC kicks in.. it's very redeeming :) i'd like to see them put some more effort into the sounds, so we can actually hear the unique characteristics of different engines. i know it would be difficult, with so many cars to model though. But if it'll be 2007 and things still sound the same, and NFS from 2005 can sound 100x better, that'd be embarassing.
 
Sampling data from every vehicle to get it accurate is going to be very hard and costly. But...this strikes me as a perfect application of accoustic modelling! There's a closed system from the source of the noise through to the exhaust. Cell ought to be good at modelling pressure waves travelling through the engine and converting those into audio. Setting a few parameters ought to nail down most possible engine noises at a guess, with perhaps a few different algorithms for normal engines, turbo, rotory, and other fundamentally different accoustic pathways.
 
dfan said:
Yeah i agree, when VTEC kicks in.. it's very redeeming :) i'd like to see them put some more effort into the sounds, so we can actually hear the unique characteristics of different engines.
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That would be cool, my Mitsi FTO MIVEC changes engine note as the variable timing kicks in and changes cam all the way up to 8K RPM, would be excellent to hear that in-game.

1st one at 9sec (approx 4.5K RPM) 2nd at 19sec (approx 6K RPM up to 8k RPM)

http://www.myfto.co.uk/media/videos/MyGPvRonRR.wmv
 
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new media on the GT website:

screens:
http://www.gran-turismo.com/jp/sp/detail.do?article_id=376
video:
http://www.gran-turismo.com/jp/movie/index.do?id=429
http://www.gran-turismo.com/jp/movie/index.do?id=430

Looks like they are still improving on the lighting (which has my biggest problem with the game so far), I think this is the first time I've seen shadows on the car when it went through the tunnel. Glad to know they are still working on it. The amount of detail in the car models themselves is pretty impressive imo, probably the best I've seen.

1235.jpg

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That said, the environment still needs some work big time imho, and I'm sure most of it is just placeholders for now. As I said before, cant wait to see the finished product next year.
 
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vlcsnap22526yh8.png


I really like the video where this picture came from, but it hasn't sat right with me and I know why: It is totally unrealistic. Today I was out dirving around and it was a bright out. The contrast between lit pavement and car shadows was very similar to the above. The difference? The "dark" side of cars which was in the car shadow were still well illuminated. On a bright day the highly reflective paint, even in shadowed areas, is going to pick up significant illumination from the environment.

So while the contrast is super sexy in that video and the per pixel lighting and shadowing is gorgeous, it just isn't right. I even saw a number of yellow cars and paid special attention to them as they drove by and turned, and while you could notice the casting of shadows, the shadows cast on the car itself were more washed out due to the reflective surface of the car body picked up a lot of ambient light.

I REALLY like the above (as an effect, I like it better than FM2, which some of the recent stuff I have seen seems to be a little more accurate at this stage... of course both are WIP and not complete), but it does bring something to mind:

1. Graphics are about art.

2. Graphics are also about making decisions: Where are we at technically, and what tradeoffs will produce the best effect on screen. Is investing more into shadowing and lighting a better return for the final IQ or investing in reflective effects?

No game this gen will be "technically correct", so the question is who makes the best tradeoffs for general consumer tastes and expectations. I must say that the detail in the GT cars, while over the top, really highlight the details in the car in a way that is very rewarding to the eye. The detail isn't as washed out, even if I have to remind myself it doesn't look correct... hopefully other devs catch on that "correct" isn't always best.

Ps- What is this yellow car? It looks sick. I just like to race them... I am not a real life car guy ;)
 
Great post Acert93, I agree with pretty much all of it. I'm trying to find some pictures on google with the contrast as deep as in GTHD but it's difficult as you say because of the global illumination. Anyways, you are pretty much spot on, my biggest beef with racing games specifically is in the lighting. I think they could slightly tone down the casted shadow and it would look great, again only slightly.

here for example, the real car in a photo.
exterior

you can see the dark side of the car, with the heavy shadow on the ground, but the back of the car itself is not as dark as you see in the GTHD picture. But if you look at the two pictures, the difference is not as big as compared to some other games, thats for sure. They look pretty close imo.

But yeah, in the end I'm sure PD will deliver on a great looking game, and more importantly gameplay wise. They are perfectionists after all.

Acert93 said:
Ps- What is this yellow car? It looks sick. I just like to race them... I am not a real life car guy ;)
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In my post above yours, the above car is the Lotus Elise, and the bottom is the Lancer Evolution (Evo for short).
 
Bad_Boy said:
But yeah, in the end I'm sure PD will deliver on a great looking game, and more importantly gameplay wise. They are perfectionists after all.
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PD are the ones who got me to pick up a PS. My best friend hand one (and I basically lived there), but the GT series was a "must have". Ironically I am kind of torn this gen. I absolutely cannot afford a Xbox 360 right now, let alone a PS3. I am more at the stage "a few games, but great experience". i.e. Hook it up to my nice LCD, get a FF wheel, and play a ton of online. That sort of thing. Big replay, big experience. But I have time to choose as I won't even think about one until next fall, but until then I am kind of torn. My best friend, now in another state, is a total Halo freak and the 360 in general appeals to my PC sensabilities (and realization PC ugprades are expensive!). On the other hand I think Sony has 1st party devs doing more indepth/specialized software, at least at this point. And after days like today, get Xbox fans whining about all I ever do is "criticize" MS and Xbox games on the Xbox site I mod, I would feel a nice sense of "eat this!" by posting a pic of me playing on my new PS3 :devilish:

I am going to be watching the PS3 network with special attention, especially their support of KB/MS, and how games and developer support pan out over the next year. Especially key franchises like Forza and GT. While I bought a PS for GT, my sparse time with Forza really hit me hard (damage modelling, great AI, excellent online play, decal customization). I am kind of confused with all the GT5 SKUs, but that will clear out.

We tend to over use the term killer app, but GT3 was a killer app. Games like FM2/GT5 are kind of the software that will be making my next gen decision. Partly because, "It is about the games stupid" and partly because they give a little more insight about MS and Sony. In particular--is MS going to stick to the "1st part software is done when it is done" approach, or is the Allard, "lets be EA" approach gonna win out. For peeps like me who will only buy 10-15 titles in a gen and want 100s of hours of quality replay (without constant "stupid game! what an annoying bug/feature" feeling) 1st party quality is uber important.

Anyhow, not trying to drone off topic, but GT is a game that always makes me think, "Maybe I won't miss $600 in the ol' bank account..." :LOL:
 
Acert93 said:
Anyhow, not trying to drone off topic, but GT is a game that always makes me think, "Maybe I won't miss $600 in the ol' bank account..." :LOL:
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Just compare it to how much you'd have to spend on even ONE of those cars and supporting it for racing... ;)
 
Acert93 said:
I really like the video where this picture came from, but it hasn't sat right with me and I know why: It is totally unrealistic. Today I was out dirving around and it was a bright out. The contrast between lit pavement and car shadows was very similar to the above. The difference? The "dark" side of cars which was in the car shadow were still well illuminated. On a bright day the highly reflective paint, even in shadowed areas, is going to pick up significant illumination from the environment.
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That`s what I like about Motorstorm`s lighting. The car`s paint is still colourful in darker areas.
 
Acert93 said:
*snip*
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I pretty much agree with all of what you said. For me, I was going from PSX to Dreamcast and thinking I would never get a PS2, then GT3 came out and I realized living without that would be next to impossible and GT4 reinforced that notion even more for me. This lastgen, I also tried PGR and FM series on my Xbox, but they left me with the kind of dissatisfaction I found playing SegaGT/MSR on DC...the real thing just cannot be replaced :D.

Of course, apart from GT series, theres always Final Fantasy, MGS, and a few others keeping me locked into the PS franchise, but thats for another thread.
 
It would look so much better with better AA.

I rather have better AA @ 720p than 1080p for a driving game.

But otherwise, practically perfect car models and great lighting.
 
Its not ugly but at the same time it doesnt look great either. I have hopes that Polyphony will deliver something more impressive looking because the current state of it lacks.
 
The cars look second to none, but the environment needs to step up. I hate when all the detail goes on the cars and the rest just looks bad compared to cars. Motorstorm for one has much better looking environments. The car looks like it's clued or photoshopped on to the picture in GT HD.
 
I think people need reminding that this game is still 80% GT4 so its not gonna look Next-Gen and neither is the lighting.
 
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