Global warming

[corduroygt]

Let's take a better look at that map:

Only the I-95 corridor has a workable population density and I've already quoted the outrageous train prices. It's like that in the US because we don't have a socialist goverment that heavily taxes our fuel and subsidizes trains. At least not as much as the Europeans.

 

[AlphaWolf]

Let's take a better look at that map:


Only the I-95 corridor has a workable population density and I've already quoted the outrageous train prices. It's like that in the US because we don't have a socialist goverment that heavily taxes our fuel and subsidizes trains. At least not as much as the Europeans.

The eastern seaboard has roughly the population density of France. Which has a pretty good rail system.

Stop with the stupid bullshit about socialism. You're subsidizing your highway, rail and air systems already. You would just need to prioritize it differently. You could probably take a few hundred billion out of subsidizing the ultra rich via the military and pay for the necessary infrastructure improvements to get rolling.

 

[corduroygt]

The eastern seaboard has roughly the population density of France. Which has a pretty good rail system.

No, not the entire eastern seaboard. Just the I-95 corridor. From DC to Rhode Island. Everything below has a lower population density than France.

Stop with the stupid bullshit about socialism. You're subsidizing your highway, rail and air systems already. You would just need to prioritize it differently. You could probably take a few hundred billion out of subsidizing the ultra rich via the military and pay for the necessary infrastructure improvements to get rolling.

It's far better to invest that money on alternative biofuels and freight trains, not passenger ones. Reducing the number of trucks on highways would provide much greater benefits first.

 

[AlphaWolf]

No, not the entire eastern seaboard. Just the I-95 corridor. From DC to Rhode Island. Everything below has a lower population density than France.

That is not what I see in that picture you linked.

It's far better to invest that money on alternative biofuels and freight trains, not passenger ones. Reducing the number of trucks on highways would provide much greater benefits first.

Trains are only about 10x as efficient as the best car in terms of fuel use. It's proven technology, no research required.

 

[corduroygt]

That is not what I see in that picture you linked.

You don't go by a visual approximation from a map, here are the hard numbers:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...d_dependent_territories_by_population_density
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_population_density

Trains are only about 10x as efficient as the best car in terms of fuel use. It's proven technology, no research required.

People want comfort and speed and they have thousands of destinations. Freight trains are also at least 5x more efficient and environmentally friendly than trucks, not to mention they're cheaper and the tracks they require aren't as expensive or hightech as maglev or other exotic technologies. Unless they make a train that can take me from my doorstep to my destination, I'm driving. Mass Transport is a lower standard of living than having your car and being free to go anywhere, anytime and I'm not going to switch to that as long as I can afford my car and gas.

 

[AlphaWolf]

You don't go by a visual approximation from a map, here are the hard numbers:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...d_dependent_territories_by_population_density
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_population_density

And those links also support my contention. France has a much lower density than top 7 states which are all on the eastern seaboard. Florida is similar to france, if you average in Virginia and North Carolina and the other eastern seaboard states, it will be very similar to France. So please keep finding more data to support my contention, I appreciate the effort.

People want comfort and speed and they have thousands of destinations. Freight trains are also at least 5x more efficient and environmentally friendly than trucks, not to mention they're cheaper and the tracks they require aren't as expensive or hightech as maglev or other exotic technologies. Unless they make a train that can take me from my doorstep to my destination, I'm driving. Mass Transport is a lower standard of living than having your car and being free to go anywhere, anytime and I'm not going to switch to that as long as I can afford my car and gas.

I'm not sure what your point is about freight trains. They use them.

 

[corduroygt]

And those links also support my contention. France has a much lower density than top 7 states which are all on the eastern seaboard. Florida is similar to france, if you average in Virginia and North Carolina and the other eastern seaboard states, it will be very similar to France. So please keep finding more data to support my contention, I appreciate the effort.

Why are you averaging it out? I doubt everwhere in France has excellent mass transportation. It only makes sense on the top states, which is where it is.

I'm not sure what your point is about freight trains. They use them.

They're not using them enough.

 

[AlphaWolf]

Why are you averaging it out? I doubt everwhere in France has excellent mass transportation. It only makes sense on the top states, which is where it is.

Look at the total density of france. The total density of the eastern seaboard is similar (some areas much higher, some a bit lower).

http://www.raileurope.ca/europe-travel-guide/france/map.html

The french rail system is fairly comprehensive. The TGV (high speed) only covers part of it, but they are improving that system as well.

They're not using them enough.

While I agree, trains account for 42% of all tonnage miles in the US. Trucks are only 28%. (waterways and pipelines split the rest). Improvements to the rail system would help this not hurt it.

 

[KimB]

Look at the total density of france. The total density of the eastern seaboard is similar (some areas much higher, some a bit lower).

And not just the Eastern seaboard, but nearly all of the Eastern half of the US has population density close to France's. There is also a very good case for good rail lines between California and the East, as well as between the LA area and the San Francisco area, and around the LA area itself.

 

[Ty]

http://www.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/01/27/kaku.snowstorms.global.warming/index.html?hpt=T2

Much of this was mentioned previously but perhaps worded in slightly different ways.

 

[Sxotty]

People want comfort and speed and they have thousands of destinations. Freight trains are also at least 5x more efficient and environmentally friendly than trucks, not to mention they're cheaper and the tracks they require aren't as expensive or hightech as maglev or other exotic technologies. Unless they make a train that can take me from my doorstep to my destination, I'm driving. Mass Transport is a lower standard of living than having your car and being free to go anywhere, anytime and I'm not going to switch to that as long as I can afford my car and gas.

You are right about freight, but you know what? We subsidize roads, but not trains so we use trucks not trains. If you want freight dealt with better then the solution is to take railways back into the public domain like the interstate system and let anyone who pays run trains on them. That won't happen though.

 

[corduroygt]

And those links also support my contention. France has a much lower density than top 7 states which are all on the eastern seaboard. Florida is similar to france, if you average in Virginia and North Carolina and the other eastern seaboard states, it will be very similar to France. So please keep finding more data to support my contention, I appreciate the effort.

Many of those top states are small states with small areas without much population, you have to use a weighted average to see that:

DC: 601,723
NJ: 8,791,894
RI: 1,052,567
MA: 6,547,629
CT: 3,574,097
MD: 5,773,552
DE: 900,877
NY: 19,378,102

That just adds up to 46M people, or about 1/9th of US population. Yes, that area is pretty developed and we do have overly expensive trains serving it. I live here, so I know.

Therefore there are these 8 states, then Florida, which is free to have a railway system within itself, and everywhere else it'd be more expensive to make railway system than France. Even including Florida, that means for 80% of the US population, trains will be more expensive than the average of France.

What is it with you people and telling us how to spend our money. It's none of your business what we do with it, and we sure as hell don't give a shit if you get flooded.

 

[AlphaWolf]

Many of those top states are small states with small areas without much population, you have to use a weighted average to see that:

DC: 601,723
NJ: 8,791,894
RI: 1,052,567
MA: 6,547,629
CT: 3,574,097
MD: 5,773,552
DE: 900,877
NY: 19,378,102

That just adds up to 46M people, or about 1/9th of US population. Yes, that area is pretty developed and we do have overly expensive trains serving it. I live here, so I know.

Therefore there are these 8 states, then Florida, which is free to have a railway system within itself, and everywhere else it'd be more expensive to make railway system than France. Even including Florida, that means for 80% of the US population, trains will be more expensive than the average of France.

Try again. Try using the whole damned eastern US which is half the of the US population and about the same population density of France.

What is it with you people and telling us how to spend our money. It's none of your business what we do with it, and we sure as hell don't give a shit if you get flooded.

I won't get flooded, that's those poor suckers that live on a coast, and I'll probably actually get a kick out of selling you oil for $250 a barrel. In 20 years I'll probably be able to build a beach house on Hudson's Bay (the newest upcoming summer resort). Paid for by american greed and stupidity. Thanks.

 

[eastmen]

That's why you have buses. A good public transportation system is a comprehensive one, with buses for short distances, and trains for intermediate/long distances. In Paris they also have this really neat system where you can rent bicycles (basically, they have these special bike racks in various places around the city, and you can pay a couple of Euros, grab a bike, and park it at another bike rack some distance away).

Yea that bike thing would be totatly awsome today with 10 inches of snow out there. So awsome.

We have bikes here too dude. Not a new invention , we even had bike rental kisoks. You are comparing Paris to suburban USA which doesn't work. I'm sure your ideas are workable in NYC.... oh wait thats right they've had the subway and other train stuff there for a long time.

Aside from that , we do have the light rail here in NJ but its set up only where it makes sense , it goes down the hudson through some of the most populated citys in hudson county NJ .

 

[KimB]

Yea that bike thing would be totatly awsome today with 10 inches of snow out there. So awsome.

You do realize it doesn't snow all year long, right? Or everywhere in the US?

I lived in Davis for a while, which is a major bike city. I got around with a bike all year round, in part because it was often more convenient than getting around by car. Bikes obviously aren't a good solution everywhere, but they are definitely a good solution in many places where they don't exist today.

Another issue that really hurts for this sort of thing is zoning: a very common aspect of the US is zoning to separate residential areas from commercial areas from industrial areas. While the separation of industrial areas makes some degree of sense, the separation of commercial areas from residential ones does not.

We have bikes here too dude. Not a new invention , we even had bike rental kisoks.

Hmm, never seen one in the US. But I suppose they must have a few here and there.

You are comparing Paris to suburban USA which doesn't work. I'm sure your ideas are workable in NYC.... oh wait thats right they've had the subway and other train stuff there for a long time.

Aside from that , we do have the light rail here in NJ but its set up only where it makes sense , it goes down the hudson through some of the most populated citys in hudson county NJ .

Very few urban areas in the US have a good public transportation system. Some do, this is true. But not many.

And the train service for longer distances is positively horrible.

 

[corduroygt]

I won't get flooded, that's those poor suckers that live on a coast, and I'll probably actually get a kick out of selling you oil for $250 a barrel. In 20 years I'll probably be able to build a beach house on Hudson's Bay (the newest upcoming summer resort). Paid for by american greed and stupidity. Thanks.

So you're from the Saudi Arabian royal family?
At that price, the US will grow their own fuel, no thanks.

People not from US should STFU instead of trying to tell us how to spend our money.

In NYC, they do have bike rentals, by the way.

 

[rpg.314]

What is it with you people and telling us how to spend our money. It's none of your business what we do with it, and we sure as hell don't give a shit if you get flooded.

So you emigrated to US from europe, right? Why am I not surprised.....

May be you won't give a shit if your kids get flooded because of your activities either.

 

[Grall]

So you're from the Saudi Arabian royal family?

He could be Norwegian, Dutch, French, Russian... Heck, Iraqi, Iranian, Venezuelan, Sudanese...bunch of other nationalities too that drill for oil.

People not from US should STFU instead of trying to tell us how to spend our money.

Don't be so fucking over-sensitive. You're quite content with putting your fingers in other peoples' pies and letting them know your inconsiderate opinions. Only fair you get a dose of your own medicine.

 

[AlphaWolf]

Canada exports 2.5million barrels of oil to the US per day. Almost double Mexico which is 2nd.

The price of corn (and other food crops) is going up with the price of oil, if not faster. I don't know if you'll ever see a day when biofuels are actually cheaper.

 

[corduroygt]

So you emigrated to US from europe, right? Why am I not surprised.....

May be you won't give a shit if your kids get flooded because of your activities either.

They'll be in the US, so that's not too much of a concern. We can afford to build barriers or evacuate, whicever is the cheapest. Not to mention 1 meter of sea level rise in a century is nothing to worry about here.