AMD Mantle API [updating]

Discussion in 'Rendering Technology and APIs' started by MarkoIt, Sep 26, 2013.

  1. MarkoIt

    Regular

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2007
    Messages:
    392
    Likes Received:
    0
    What is Mantle?

    A cross-platform low-level API that exposes all GCN architecture features and improves performance.

    More info at the AMD Developer Summit, November 11-14th.

    Slides:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    More info from AMD:


    Developer thoughts:

    https://twitter.com/ID_AA_Carmack/status/383051142755663872

    Press Reactions:

    Digital Foundy


    HardOCP

    AnandTech.[/QUOTE]

    Some notable info related

    *mod: I was not sure were to open this thread. I made this open post that I can update when more info is available :)
     
    #1 MarkoIt, Sep 26, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 27, 2013
  2. Rodéric

    Rodéric a.k.a. Ingenu
    Moderator Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2002
    Messages:
    4,031
    Likes Received:
    898
    Location:
    Planet Earth.
    Where's the doc ? I want it !
     
  3. Pixel

    Veteran Regular

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2013
    Messages:
    1,007
    Likes Received:
    475
    This is great for Dice/EA and their Frostbite 3 engine.

    Right now Dice is testing it out on its engine. It suggests that any future non-dice game developer that utilizing Frostbite 3 will have the opportunity to program using Mantle.

    Other game studios will just have one more reason be more likely to chose Frostbite 3 over other 3rd party game engines.

    This in turn will probably spur the developers of CryEngine, ID Tech5, Unrealengine etc... to get their engines to utilize Mantle. Great news for AMD.
     
    #3 Pixel, Sep 26, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 26, 2013
  4. Osamar

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2006
    Messages:
    210
    Likes Received:
    36
    Location:
    40,00ºN - 00,00ºE
    So we will have AMD Mantle, Nvidia Core and Intel Inner and some other sound APIs that now live in the CGPU (sorry CSGPU) :twisted:.

    I have lived this before!!!!

    And then Microsoft will show DirectX To The Metal! to rule them all.

    I just hope this will not finnish in a OGL extensions war.
     
  5. Arwin

    Arwin Now Officially a Top 10 Poster
    Moderator Legend

    Joined:
    May 17, 2006
    Messages:
    18,095
    Likes Received:
    1,698
    Location:
    Maastricht, The Netherlands
    Hopefully, as Mantle is open and multi-platform, it will be supported by all.
     
  6. NRP

    NRP
    Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2004
    Messages:
    2,712
    Likes Received:
    293
    I'm not sure about this initiative. I agree with Osamar that it feels like we've lived this before. Proprietary stuff is usually not good for the end user.
     
  7. Pressure

    Veteran Regular

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2004
    Messages:
    1,460
    Likes Received:
    386
    Just in time for the new Mac Pro, interesting ;)
     
  8. psorcerer

    Regular

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2004
    Messages:
    732
    Likes Received:
    134
    No

    This time there is no incentive for MSFT to kill consoles. So, no new Manhattan project, sorry.
     
  9. swaaye

    swaaye Entirely Suboptimal
    Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2003
    Messages:
    8,621
    Likes Received:
    692
    Location:
    WI, USA
    I don't think DirectX was ever about defeating consoles really. It was more about making Windows rock for games and multimedia because DOS was actually preferred over Windows for a time for these things. DirectX brought in efficient graphics, audio, input and networking APIs that answered developer demands. DOS had middleware for this (or do whatever you want directly with the hardware) but Windows 3 had just terrible performance.

    Consoles and PC gaming were still very different cultures back then. I wasn't playing PC games on console or console games on PC in those days.
     
  10. NRP

    NRP
    Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2004
    Messages:
    2,712
    Likes Received:
    293
    Will Mantle lock us in to AMD hardware? On consoles, I don't care about this. On PCs, I do.
     
  11. swaaye

    swaaye Entirely Suboptimal
    Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2003
    Messages:
    8,621
    Likes Received:
    692
    Location:
    WI, USA
    I don't see it going down any other way. Unless Intel and NVIDIA come out and announce it's a cooperative effort. But I can't imagine that happening because it would cement AMD's new perceived gaming leadership and give them even more competitive advantage.
     
  12. Dave Baumann

    Dave Baumann Gamerscore Wh...
    Moderator Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2002
    Messages:
    14,081
    Likes Received:
    651
    Location:
    O Canada!
    The DICE Mantle slides are here.

    AnandTech has another interesting article here.
     
  13. Davros

    Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2004
    Messages:
    16,168
    Likes Received:
    3,392
    YES!!!
    We had
    D3D, RRedline, Ati Cif, MSI, SGL, Glide, CGL, NVLIB, S3D
    All proprietary apart from d3d
     
  14. UniversalTruth

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2010
    Messages:
    1,747
    Likes Received:
    22
    Sorry, but now AMD owns PS4 and XBoxOne hardware plus a respectable part of PC GPUs as well. You had never seen these conditions before.

    I, for one, would welcome this because of:

    Farewell to DirectX?
    The DirectX Performance Overhead

    It can vary from almost nothing at all to a huge overhead,' says Huddy. 'If you're just rendering a screen full of pixels which are not terribly complicated, then typically a PC will do just as good a job as a console. These days we have so much horsepower on PCs that on high-resolutions you see some pretty extraordinary-looking PC games, but one of the things that you don't see in PC gaming inside the software architecture is the kind of stuff that we see on consoles all the time.

    On consoles, you can draw maybe 10,000 or 20,000 chunks of geometry in a frame, and you can do that at 30-60fps. On a PC, you can't typically draw more than 2-3,000 without getting into trouble with performance, and that's quite surprising - the PC can actually show you only a tenth of the performance if you need a separate batch for each draw call.


    Problems with Multiple GPU Architectures

    http://www.anandtech.com/show/7371/understanding-amds-mantle-a-lowlevel-graphics-api-for-gcn

    Customers would tend not to agree because as a result we potentially lose quite a lot of performance.

    I would welcome this comment:

    It's about time for them :grin:
     
  15. Davros

    Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2004
    Messages:
    16,168
    Likes Received:
    3,392
    Wasnt talking about that, was talking about the pc having proprietary graphics api's which we have had before
    and I'm sure thats what osamar was referring to and psorcerer was denying
     
  16. Davros

    Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2004
    Messages:
    16,168
    Likes Received:
    3,392
    Would that be a Mantle piece ?

    *available for weddings and bar mitzvahs
     
  17. ltcommander.data

    Regular

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2010
    Messages:
    616
    Likes Received:
    15
    I thought Mantle derives its performance in part by being closely aligned with AMD's GCN architecture? If they started generalizing and abstracting it to support Intel and nVidia hardware wouldn't that defeat the purpose of Mantle?
     
  18. Malo

    Malo Yak Mechanicum
    Legend Veteran Subscriber

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2002
    Messages:
    7,850
    Likes Received:
    4,030
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    I'm still not seeing anywhere that Mantle is completely open with no royalties etc. Everything seems to indicate it's only specifically coded to GCN at the moment.
     
  19. Gubbi

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2002
    Messages:
    3,593
    Likes Received:
    998
    Applause

    Cheers
     
  20. liquidboy

    Regular Newcomer

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2013
    Messages:
    416
    Likes Received:
    77
    I tend to completely agree with the AnandTech article "Understanding AMD’s Mantle: A Low-Level Graphics API For GCN" ..


    Ultimately Mantle is API + Drivers .. There is absolutely zero chance that MS doesn't know about Mantle because Drivers need to be certified for Windows right?! So MS must of known about this for this to be even making its way into Windows, let alone Windows 8 which has even tighter driver certification requirements

    Secondly ill quote one of the comments from the anandtech article, from
    Panzer:

     
Loading...

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Beyond3D has been around for over a decade and prides itself on being the best place on the web for in-depth, technically-driven discussion and analysis of 3D graphics hardware. If you love pixels and transistors, you've come to the right place!

    Beyond3D is proudly published by GPU Tools Ltd.
Loading...