GI.biz sez: No Xenon XBox Compatibility

[ERP]

They're not all that obscure, just uncommon in the PC space.
Basically it support fixed and floating point W at 16 24 and 32 bit resolution.

ATI don't support W and neither AFAIK do newer NVidia cards.

I don't know which modes in particular are used by which games, but I'd be stunned if someone wasn't using them.

Personally I'd always use W by choice over Z, but fp Z is pretty close to the same distribution.

 

[Jov]

2015?! On WHAT planet? If PS2 software is still available past 2010 I'd be very surprised. PS1 was phased out after a few years after all, now I don't see any games for sale unless it's second hand.

Yet to release game on the PSOne:
http://www.gamerankings.com/htmlpages2/914927.asp

I still see some new games at EBs.

 

[Jov]

I'm curious on how Microsoft will handle a launch of XBox 2 in 2005. It's a short time frame between platforms and no backwards compatibility, so I wonder if they'll offer some type of incentive to XBox 1 owners to keep them loyal. Something like trade in you old Xbox and get $100 trade in credit towards Xbox 2 and a free year of LIVE service.

Do you really believe MS will take another loss on the Xbox even after its sold?? Unless they're making [a lot of] money on the new HW, otherwise I'd like to hear their reason to their shareholders.

Can anyone name me a business model that takes a double loss on a product during and at end of life?? MSBOC => MS buying Out consumer model??

 

[Jabjabs]

You know that's the one thing I like about you ERP, you only tell things on a need to know basis.

 

[passerby]

The most painful thing about lacking BC is the launch. There are typically only a few titles available at launch, having a hugh existing library helps a lot. Consider this - when you pick up a PS3, you know you can play FF12, KH2, GT4-deluxe-whatever, MGS-deluxe-whatever, and a whole lot of other PS2 titles that will still be released near the time of PS3 launch. A very nice advantage that is good to exploit - even software for the older platform is helping the new platform.

 

[j^aws]

I'm curious on how Microsoft will handle a launch of XBox 2 in 2005. It's a short time frame between platforms and no backwards compatibility, so I wonder if they'll offer some type of incentive to XBox 1 owners to keep them loyal. Something like trade in you old Xbox and get $100 trade in credit towards Xbox 2 and a free year of LIVE service.

Do you really believe MS will take another loss on the Xbox even after its sold?? Unless they're making [a lot of] money on the new HW, otherwise I'd like to hear their reason to their shareholders.

Can anyone name me a business model that takes a double loss on a product during and at end of life?? MSBOC => MS buying Out consumer model??

Does M$ have a business model? I thought M$ model was that if you can't beat them, you just buy them! IMHO M$ should focus on the console market as a heavy weight publisher...sometimes I think they're still stuck in the ealy 80's thinking that they could apply the same IBM PC model to the console market...

 

[Jov]

It might not be good for current xbox owners but personally I think it bodes well for the xbox2. I own a ps2 I have never thought of playing a ps1 game on it, I didn't buy it to play last gen games.

I got mine to play PS games. I didn't like the original PS due to its long load time, thus never got one. I knew I was missing out on a number of AAA games. When the PS2 came out, it was a one solution that solved 3 problems. And for the first 6 or so months, I only had TTT, but spent most of my time playing PSOne games with faster load time.

 

[zurich]

I picked up my PS2 with SSX and FF9... guess which one sucked up more of my life?

 

[Jov]

The most painful thing about lacking BC is the launch. There are typically only a few titles available at launch, having a hugh existing library helps a lot. Consider this - when you pick up a PS3, you know you can play FF12, KH2, GT4-deluxe-whatever, MGS-deluxe-whatever, and a whole lot of other PS2 titles that will still be released near the time of PS3 launch. A very nice advantage that is good to exploit - even software for the older platform is helping the new platform.

It was alot more acceptable (not that I endorse the lack of AAA titles during launch) to wait for AAA on the new platform when you can play all the top games of the previous gen even if the only advantage is quicker load.

 

[Jov]

I picked up my PS2 with SSX and FF9... guess which one sucked up more of my life?

I've yet to finish FF9 (on disc 2), and with the recent 10+ titles I picked up (most retailers are having stock take sales due to end of financial year) I don't think I can get back to FF9 til the PS3 is out.

 

[AlNom]

Xbox 2 Backward Compatibility Rumors Debunked?

After a swell of controversy from yesterday’s article at Gamesindustry.biz regarding no backward compatibility between the Xbox 2 and the current Xbox platform, we have received an official statement from Microsoft that appears to deflate many of the claims as pure speculation:

“Recent stories in the press about future Xbox products are nothing more than pulp fiction. Microsoft hasn’t made any announcements regarding the next generation, so it’s far too early to speculate about specifics, including backward compatibility. In fact, this media conjecture is irresponsible. The credibility of any publication willing to compromise fact in favor of a catchy headline must be questioned. Xbox fans are smart enough to distinguish truth from sensational reporting.â€￾


While this statement doesn’t definitively state that the Xbox 2 will or will not support backward compatibility, it appears that the feature is still up in the air at this point.

Team Xbox

 

[passerby]

IMO that may just be damage control. ERP has already given us a very good explanation for the lack of BC. They'll eventually have to admit it.

Unless they can work out licensing issues with Nvidia.

 

[AlNom]

I doubt MS and nVidia could agree on anything more anymore.

 

[Dave Baumann]

IMO that may just be damage control. ERP has already given us a very good explanation for the lack of BC. They'll eventually have to admit it.

We thrashed the W-Buffer support out when Derek Smart was here, demonstrating his dislike on some of the ealier 9700 drivers - IIRC a W-Buffer mechanism can be calculated in the fragment shader. I believe there may have been an FSAA restriction, but I don't know how much of an issue that would be.

 

[ERP]

IMO that may just be damage control. ERP has already given us a very good explanation for the lack of BC. They'll eventually have to admit it.

We thrashed the W-Buffer support out when Derek Smart was here, demonstrating his dislike on some of the ealier 9700 drivers - IIRC a W-Buffer mechanism can be calculated in the fragment shader. I believe there may have been an FSAA restriction, but I don't know how much of an issue that would be.

You can calculate it in the fragment shader, but you need to be able to use the existing value of the current fragment as an input to the shader for it to be useful. No current hardware I know of will allow you to do this, it's be a really nice feature, but I don't see it happening in the short term because of coherency issues.

MS or ATI might come up with a clever hack to get around this, but I can't see a workable solution.

 

[cthellis42]

Nice damage control, but what does

Microsoft hasn?t made any announcements regarding the next generation,

...have to do with buzz GI.biz printed coming from "sources close to senior executives" and "...close to the project"? Of COURSE it's a rumor, because if MS actually SAID something there would be... you know... a press release to quote directly? Rumor and speculation are always going to abound in regards to big projects and information vacuums, so... We apply the same "consider the source" we always do. Problem is in this case the source is a pretty solid one by-and-large, and Microsoft's reply (which half the time rumors are spread to bring about as maybe they'll let something slip ) doesn't actually say anything. And so...? It will continue on just like usual until they actually HAVE something to announce.

Deny anyone said anything like was reported, affirm that it WILL appear, or that emulation is certainly being looked into... but what good is scoffing at something by saying it's a rumor--as if we didn't already know? Most tech-heads are already on the downside of the emulation possibility because of the problems involved, so really they have to either announce some substance, or don't announce anything at all.

 

[cthellis42]

GI.biz responds back:

However, at no point does the statement deny the accuracy of the story - saying only that "Microsoft hasn't made any announcements regarding the next generation, so it's far too early to speculate about specifics." In other words, if it's not an official Microsoft announcement, it's "irresponsible" to report it.

GamesIndustry.biz absolutely stands by the accuracy of its reporting on the backwards compatibility of the Xbox 2. This story was not "speculation" - it was based on comments made by an extremely senior member of the Xbox division at Microsoft, which were conveyed to journalists working on this site by a well-placed source close to the company.

On the whole, Microsoft should have let the comment filter outward and gauged what the community reaction was like. A bit of extra polling if nothing else... That they lept on it so quickly makes me think it struck too close to home.

 

[wco81]

I gave my '95 vintage PS1 away when I got my 2000 vintage PS2, trusting that I could play old games there if I wanted to.

I've never put a PS1 game in the PS2.

Partly, I tend to sell games after playing them so never keep much of a library. But also, I didn't think I'd ever look back.

The thing I remember about the early PS2 games are that they lacked a lot of the features of the mature PS1 games. Some games, it appeared the major work was to develop a new graphics engine and skimp on the niceties they used to have. So for instance, the first Tiger Woods game for the PS2 had only 3 courses. But the graphics were a lot better than the PS1 of course.

MS would be lucky to have Madden as a launch title for the Xbox 2. But here's a scenario I could envision. Madden 2006 comes out for all existing platforms in August 2005, replete with more features than ever. Then Xbox2 launches say in November 2005 and Madden 2006 for the Xbox2 launches with it. It supports 720p. But it's missing a lot of stuff like maybe online play, maybe a lot of franchise features and the training camp stuff. So veteran Madden players, especially those with HDTV sets, may enjoy the prettier graphics but may want to do the bulk of their gaming with the Xbox version (if they're veteran Madden players, they would have bought the game in August, not waiting until November).

So having the keep the Xbox that first year or 18 months of the Xbox2's life might dim the luster of the new console somewhat.

 

[Deepak]

Can't those NV specific features be turned OFF like in PC, if you have lesser card then you simply don't use them but still play the game?

 

[Guden Oden]

Deepak,

Short answer: no.