GI.biz sez: No Xenon XBox Compatibility

[j^aws]

Dynasty Warriors 2 and Armored Core 2 weren't mediocre. (Just fooling around. Don't take this as trolling.)

I actually spent more time watching DVDs on the PS2 at launch than games!

 

[Brimstone]

And why can't XB2 be backwards compatible with XB1? Because of a difference in architecture? How different can the PS3 Cell architecture be from PS2s? Or PS2s from PS1s? I thought this big thing about M$ XNA abstraction was that hardware architecture was irrelavant. It's kinda funny that they can't keep compatability with their own platforms!

It isn't a situation where they can't do it. The way I understand it is that Nvidia IP complicates things. Then you have the hard-drive issue if XB2 is going to ship without one. Then you have the switch in both CPU and GPU vendors. A real messy problem to solve, that would cleary take a lot of time and effort.

Microsoft may have decided to bite the bullet and build something from scratch after learning from its mistakes.

 

[Megadrive1988]

I suppose then that Xbox 3 will be compatible with Xbox 2, provided MS stays with the same CPU/VPU designers like Nintendo is.

 

[crystalcube]

Theres another factor which favours the backward compatibility : Second hands game market
And according to gamesindustry.biz article theres going to be an "explosion" in second hand game market

 

[Farid]

3. Less clutter around your TV, as you keep one device less under it. This is actually the most important factor to me. I hate cable clutter, switchers, etc. and convinience is what consoles are supposed to be all about.

I totally agree about this specific point, and that's, personaly, the only fact i like about BC... The BC of PS2 saves me from adding a PSone under my TV set when i want to play a PSone RPGs, i already have a tons of cables around my TV sets... The less the better.

OTOH about the BC of Xenon, this "news" was really predictable since the BC would cost mucho dinero for MS, and MS already stated that with Xenon, they planning to make a profitable buisiness.

 

[AlNom]

I wouldn't mind having two boxes stacked.

Although.... it would present a problem because I have only one set of component video connections on my tv. hmmmm..............
I guess I'll settle for S-video on one of the two

 

[LisaJoy]

Had this "FRESH START" Happened in 2007 one could justify it, but this timing is terrible, and unforgivable, I just got my Xbox last year.

 

[GwymWeepa]

Had this "FRESH START" Happened in 2007 one could justify it, but this timing is terrible, and unforgivable, I just got my Xbox last year.

07? Great idea, kill MS's console hopes lol

 

[Dave Baumann]

Had this "FRESH START" Happened in 2007 one could justify it, but this timing is terrible, and unforgivable, I just got my Xbox last year.

The later it it, the more XB1 consoles and games will have been sold - the earlier it is the lesser the potential impact will be.

 

[cthellis42]

The later it it, the more XB1 consoles and games will have been sold - the earlier it is the lesser the potential impact will be.

For consumers, yes in some directions and no in others. For developers, it's basically bound to make them nervous...

 

[Vince]

You guys aren't thinking about this in the right paradigm.

I don't agree. Backwards compatibility is not that big a deal; you wanna play old games, there's nothing stopping you from either buying or keeping an older console. I heard nobody bitch and whine when GC did not have an N64 cart slot on it for example, nor when N64 did not accept SNES carts just to mention two examples. Of course, using standard-size CD/DVD media makes it easier to make a format PHYSICALLY compatible, but really, what is backwards compatibility other than a little bit of convenience?

Um, I wasn't talking about consumers... I stated the "Any publisher" line a few times. I even stated the line you quoted above to reinforce the point. And the GC and N64 isn't the proof you're looking for bud; when, in fact, they both have extremely weak [comperative] 3rd party support which reinforces my point.

Again, Microsoft is effectively eliminating the most profitable segment of a platforms cycle in a cannibilization of sorts to further itself. Publishers can't look highly on this from a profit PoV.

The situation, IMHO, is shaping up something like this: It's between publishing a title for an older platform with an enormous userbase (PS1, PS2); publishing to a singular, independent, but intermediate platform (DC, ...); or targetting the more powerful NG platform which also supports the former large userbase (PS2, PS3).

Shocking that you don't agree with me though. I could say the sky is blue and you'd find a reason to disagree

2015?! On WHAT planet? If PS2 software is still available past 2010 I'd be very surprised. PS1 was phased out after a few years after all, now I don't see any games for sale unless it's second hand.

PSOne is still selling in the United States quite well (even outselling XBox and GameCube untill last year IIRC) and is selling very strong in many of the PAL territories. The Middle East and Asian countries see high adoption of PSOne and that won't slow down for quite a while, perhaps a PSTwo.

PS. Thanks for the forgiveness. lol. I don't have the time yet to even approach the mess in the Political Forum though. You guys amaze me at times, going to have to wait a day or two for those replies.

 

[zurich]

I think MS is far from stupid enough to cut out Xbox 1 compatibility 'just because'. I'd bet the farm that it's something out of their hands, like an NVIDIA IP licensing issue or something.

 

[Qroach]

That last statement is very correct. Looka t it this way, it's become next to impossible for a new developer to get developer approval form sony for the PS2 in nroth america. Despite the fact they have the most consoles out there. Fomr what I've heard through numerous sources that have spoke with high up at sony, they have totally switched gears to working on PS3.

Now everyone has been complaining that it's MS that pushing for the next generation more than any other manufacturer. If that was really the case, then why can I apply and become an official xbox developer still, order devkit and equipment easily?


Sony says they kept supporting the PS1, but do any of you know that it's become impossible to get a new devkit for PSX from sony, even if you wanted one? I could get one two years ago if i wanted one, and many people did. It was also difficult to get submission disks.

Anyway, the point I'm making is that it may not be so clear who is more focused on the next generation race quite yet

 

[Qroach]

From what I understand, Nvidia went with ATI over Nvidia for a few reasons, one of them was that Nvidia won't license their IP to anybody. That makes it difficult to compete with sony and nintendo on price when you have no control.

Anyway, I wouldn't be suprised that by the time xbxo 2 rolls around you can bget a brand new xbox for 80 bucks. If it's that cheap then they don't really need backwards compatability.

 

[Panajev2001a]

PS1 is still a seller here in the US, Guden. It has a few games come out each month. Last big game was Final Fantasy Origins, an enhanced port of the Wonderswan remakes of FF1 and 2.

Remember what guys like EA said ? "We made a mistake shifting basically all of our software effortts on the new generation, but this time we will work much more for the old generation while still preparing for the new one".

EA and companies of that size will hire more people to manage both generations while some small companies will prepare only for the new generation.
A good deal of medium-to-small companies will be focused a bit more on the current generation: they know that there are still many games to sell to current PlayStation 2, GCN and Xbox owners.

 

[ERP]

I've said this before, backwards compatability would be extremly difficult for MS.

NV2X has a number of obscure rendertarget modes that simply wouldn't be worth the transistors to emulate (even newer NVidia GPU's don't have them). Unfortunatly they are used and since you can't practically emulate low level rasteriser features, the only practical solution would be the same as sSony's, Xbox1 on a chip which just isn't going to happen because they don't own enough of the technology.

 

[Brimstone]

That last statement is very correct. Looka t it this way, it's become next to impossible for a new developer to get developer approval form sony for the PS2 in nroth america. Despite the fact they have the most consoles out there. Fomr what I've heard through numerous sources that have spoke with high up at sony, they have totally switched gears to working on PS3.

Now everyone has been complaining that it's MS that pushing for the next generation more than any other manufacturer. If that was really the case, then why can I apply and become an official xbox developer still, order devkit and equipment easily?


Sony says they kept supporting the PS1, but do any of you know that it's become impossible to get a new devkit for PSX from sony, even if you wanted one? I could get one two years ago if i wanted one, and many people did. It was also difficult to get submission disks.

Anyway, the point I'm making is that it may not be so clear who is more focused on the next generation race quite yet

Maybe Sony has given the PS3 the secret code name: Project Pearl Harbor

 

[ERP]

PS1 is still a seller here in the US, Guden. It has a few games come out each month. Last big game was Final Fantasy Origins, an enhanced port of the Wonderswan remakes of FF1 and 2.

Remember what guys like EA said ? "We made a mistake shifting basically all of our software effortts on the new generation, but this time we will work much more for the old generation while still preparing for the new one".

EA and companies of that size will hire more people to manage both generations while some small companies will prepare only for the new generation.
A good deal of medium-to-small companies will be focused a bit more on the current generation: they know that there are still many games to sell to current PlayStation 2, GCN and Xbox owners.

No they'll likely deal with it the same way they did last time (outsource the older platform), they'll just maintain support for PS2 longer than they did PS1.

 

[AlphaWolf]

It might not be good for current xbox owners but personally I think it bodes well for the xbox2. I own a ps2 I have never thought of playing a ps1 game on it, I didn't buy it to play last gen games.

 

[AlNom]

I've said this before, backwards compatability would be extremly difficult for MS.

NV2X has a number of obscure rendertarget modes that simply wouldn't be worth the transistors to emulate (even newer NVidia GPU's don't have them). Unfortunatly they are used and since you can't practically emulate low level rasteriser features, the only practical solution would be the same as sSony's, Xbox1 on a chip which just isn't going to happen because they don't own enough of the technology.

Just curious.... do you know what the advantage(s) is(are) of having those "obscure render target modes" and what games may be using them in particular?