Handling feels improved (using a controller). Graphically I really don't think this is a worth while tradeoff of performance for visuals compared to FM7. Whatever AI drivatar improvements they supposedly made, I'm not seeing it. FM8 reminds me a lot of Halo Infinite in overall fit and finish -- it has an early access vibe. Feels like yet another game that's going to need a Jason Schreier report to explain where the development time went, because it's certainly not on the screen. Is this still the aftermath of COVID, or is it engineering brain drain, or unclear development goals leading to project reboots.
Forza Motorsport [XBSX|S, PC, XGP]
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Silent_Buddha
Legend
It's the tradeoff between real time global illumination + RT versus baked static lighting and no RT.
Regards,
SB
Silent_Buddha
Legend
They also overhauled the physics simulation within the game for the vehicles which is why the handling is improved. We know that it was improved to such a degree that they had to go and rescan all the tracks as the improved simulation and greater amount of generated data being consumed by each vehicle meant that it was now picking up on track details that FM7 was incapable of picking up and processing.
Without being able to profile the game, it's difficult to determine how much additional CPU cycles that uses over FM7.
Regards,
SB
It’s still baked in FM8 as far as I can see. What was shown at the conference was real-time GI, what is released looks like baked lighting streamed in, in large chunks.
Silent_Buddha
Legend
From what I read, they're using the surfels for real time global illumination with no baked lighting data.
Forza Motorsport Graphics Analysis – A New Visual Benchmark for Racing Games?
Forza Motorsport 2023 is an absolute treat for the eyes, and here's our complete graphics breakdown for Turn10's latest release.
The hardware RT is in relation to the reflections and RTAO. Although the article mentions Turn-10 would like to later update the PC version with hardware RT for GI as well.
Regards,
SB
Interesting. But TOD updates in massige chunks. Is it really Real time global (every frame it is calculated? ) There is such a difference between announcement and release.
The driving seems better for me at least. using a controller on XSX.
The visuals are more... all over the place, the best bits are better, the worst bits are way worse.
I think thats just part of moving to a fully dynamic time of day system.
It does feel more realistic than Horizon, i'm just not sure if realistic = prettier?
I'm gonna reserve judgement till a few weeks months after release,
just look at where GT7 is now, compared to release.
This is essentially a live service game, I suspect it will receive improvements for a while yet - especially on the high end PC side of things.
If they are showing full RT GI, on track during races with high GPUs in 12 months, it will be judged very differently.
The visuals are more... all over the place, the best bits are better, the worst bits are way worse.
I think thats just part of moving to a fully dynamic time of day system.
It does feel more realistic than Horizon, i'm just not sure if realistic = prettier?
I'm gonna reserve judgement till a few weeks months after release,
just look at where GT7 is now, compared to release.
This is essentially a live service game, I suspect it will receive improvements for a while yet - especially on the high end PC side of things.
If they are showing full RT GI, on track during races with high GPUs in 12 months, it will be judged very differently.
I feel the same way, the graphics by no means are bad but still bit disappointing keeping in mind that this is full next gen title. The challenges of fully dynamic ligting model and RT and whatnot ok ok.
The game itself feels good thou on XSX. Driving is good and enjoyable, playing on controller feels really great. Sound is nice all little details and nuances when you hit offtrack and diffrent types of surface. Feels good, plays good. Forza.
As you said its more of a service game and it will change like GT7 over time (hopefully). Its a good starting point (on XSX at least). Pc version cannot comment.
Played around with it today. Visually, it's a mess.
- The rear view resolution and quality is horrific
- The denoiser used for RT reflections are really bad. Reflections are grainy as can be
- This is real: https://streamable.com/9441xw
HDR somehow isn't very nice while Horizon games have top notice HDR presentations. I know, different engines n all.
Performance wise, I have a lot raw horsepower at my disposal so not an issue. BUT! and this is a big but, the game should perform twice as well given how it looks.
Benchmark:
Benchmark/Maple Valley intro/Lap 1 endurance intro/Lap 2 endurance intro:
- The rear view resolution and quality is horrific
- The denoiser used for RT reflections are really bad. Reflections are grainy as can be
- This is real: https://streamable.com/9441xw
HDR somehow isn't very nice while Horizon games have top notice HDR presentations. I know, different engines n all.
Performance wise, I have a lot raw horsepower at my disposal so not an issue. BUT! and this is a big but, the game should perform twice as well given how it looks.
Benchmark:
Benchmark/Maple Valley intro/Lap 1 endurance intro/Lap 2 endurance intro:
Yeah I wonder about this - like, it is so laggy and grainy.
the things that trully impressed me from the trailer were all removed
The benchmark is useless to me, as it does not behave as when I'm actually playing the game.
I went back to Nurburgring in a quick race and at the first corner where i was hitting 30-40 fps with a 5800x3D and 7900 XTX - even at the lowest settings with framerate target set to unlimited and resolution at 25% - I was getting the expected 33-56% GPU utilization but, interestingly, only 20-ish % CPU utilization with the frequenzy at around 1.7 - 2.1 GHz.
So the game is definitely not using the CPU resources while at the same time it is CPU limited..
I went back to Nurburgring in a quick race and at the first corner where i was hitting 30-40 fps with a 5800x3D and 7900 XTX - even at the lowest settings with framerate target set to unlimited and resolution at 25% - I was getting the expected 33-56% GPU utilization but, interestingly, only 20-ish % CPU utilization with the frequenzy at around 1.7 - 2.1 GHz.
So the game is definitely not using the CPU resources while at the same time it is CPU limited..
You need to look at hwinfo, use rtss with it and look at effective clocks for an accurate idea of core and clock speed utilization.
with resolution scale at 25% you’re heavily shifting the bottleneck to the cpu.
ZebMacahan
Regular
I dont know much about real time graphics. Could you please explain what GT7 does car-render-wise which is more compute expensive than what Forza does?
I get the feeling its more about artistic skill rather than more expensive rendering stuff, but I dont know much about this stuff. If you could pinpoint some differences I would appriciate that.
I´m not trying to put you on the spot or anything. This stuff intressts me and I would like to learn.
there are plenty of videos on youtube already comparing car models, and showing more detail in GT7, but as i said, since both are similar in power, if you put more details on cars in GT7 during gamplay, you have to put less somewhere else. So it's not that XsX could not render the same level of details on cars during gameplay, it's just a design decision.
At the time, Driveclub was doing smart things, like putting the full LOD model of the player's car during gameplay, when racing in time trial because that was the only car to render on track. GT7 does not do that, don't know about Forza.
At the time, Driveclub was doing smart things, like putting the full LOD model of the player's car during gameplay, when racing in time trial because that was the only car to render on track. GT7 does not do that, don't know about Forza.
Yes, that was the whole idea. Eliminating the GPU from the equation to see if it would change the low FPS I was getting (at the specific corner in Nurburgring which reliably hits a very low framerate).
It did not.
Obviously I see strange framerate dips elsewhere (going from 30-120+ fps), but I've found a spot I can find fast and get a reliably (bad) result from. The Xbox Series X does not seem to show any issues from the same spot.
