Formula 1 - 2010 Season

AlphaWolf said:
Yes, if the guy is a selfish prick it will hurt his self esteem greatly, but if he's a team player it has no effect as he will be happy at what his team accomplished.

It really seems to be splitting hairs to me, you either have rules that force every man for himself, or you allow teamwork.

Red Bulls principle coming out and saying they expect vettel to do whats right for the team, but they won't issue orders, to me sounds exactly the same as issuing an order.
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What? The constructors championship is a team trophy, thus teamwork, thus it doesn't matter where the drivers end up and drivers should help each other to finish high if possible. But doesn't matter where each driver ends up relative to each other.

The driver's championship is an individual trophy seperate from the team trophy. Drivers should be allowed and encouraged to strive for that. Wanting to be the best makes the driver better. I'd suggest that any driver that does not want to win the driver's trophy should just quit and get out of F1 right now as they are doing noone any favors.

Team orders that influence a driver's ability to win an INDIVIDUAL trophy should be punished, IMO. That is pure selfishness by the corporate entity that runs the team.

There's a reason there's 2 different seasonal championships, one for the team and one for the driver.

Any driver that wins the driver's championship due to team orders telling the other driver to back off basically didn't earn that championship.

Regards,
SB
 
Silent_Buddha said:
What? The constructors championship is a team trophy, thus teamwork, thus it doesn't matter where the drivers end up and drivers should help each other to finish high if possible. But doesn't matter where each driver ends up relative to each other.

The driver's championship is an individual trophy seperate from the team trophy. Drivers should be allowed and encouraged to strive for that. Wanting to be the best makes the driver better. I'd suggest that any driver that does not want to win the driver's trophy should just quit and get out of F1 right now as they are doing noone any favors.

Team orders that influence a driver's ability to win an INDIVIDUAL trophy should be punished, IMO. That is pure selfishness by the corporate entity that runs the team.

There's a reason there's 2 different seasonal championships, one for the team and one for the driver.

Any driver that wins the driver's championship due to team orders telling the other driver to back off basically didn't earn that championship.

Regards,
SB
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So if vettel lets webber pass him, then webber didn't earn it, right?

As for the constructors, alonso finishing ahead of massa has no effect on the number of constructors points.
 
Silent_Buddha said:
In which case a team won't win the team/constructors championship. Way to chop off your own leg in selfishness to make a point.

Regards,
SB
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Well, that's hyperbole for you. My point was that if the teams build optimised one-off cars for their drivers, that could be seen as manipulation of the drivers' championship just as team orders can be.

Which is stupid.

Silent_Buddha said:
Any driver that wins the driver's championship due to team orders telling the other driver to back off basically didn't earn that championship.

Regards,
SB
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If you really think this, you cannot follow F1 because your statement involves every single champion ever.
 
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AlphaWolf said:
So if vettel lets webber pass him, then webber didn't earn it, right?

As for the constructors, alonso finishing ahead of massa has no effect on the number of constructors points.
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If he Vettel has to be ordered to move over, Webber obviously wasn't the better driver.

Regards,
SB
 
Bludd said:
On that day.
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I would add to that the issue of building a car for specific driver needs. In case of old Ferrari we had red cars build specifically to suit MS driving style.

This year RB6 was modified mid season to suit better Vettel driving style. Specifically they modified blown diffuser and engine maps so it generates smoother downforce transition going from full throttle to off throttle.

Mark had advantage over Vettel in first half of the season because his driving style could better handle this rear end change of grip.
 
Perhaps if Vettel had to move for Webber, then it is actually fairest thing that can happen to stop arguing about Alonso earning those 7 points without too much effort.
 
Davros said:
Im sure many drivers won titles without their team mate having to move over, jenson for one, iirc villeneuve as well
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Okay, but that is a rarity. Most champions have benefited from team orders.
 
Davros said:
Im sure many drivers won titles without their team mate having to move over, jenson for one, iirc villeneuve as well
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Team orders over the radio? maybe not. But over the years I've seen more than enough cases of one driver conveniently getting past his teammate with well planned pitstops.

Anyway I'm getting kinda tired of the whole 7 points debate. It's useless. If you think its not fair just stop watching F1 because things like these happend since forever in F1. Besides that it was also very logical. Massa had little chance of winning the WDC, Alonso does have that chance. 1+1 anyone?
 
Why would I? If Vettel can't win the WDC and Webber can, than why wouldn't he let him pass? He has nothing to lose by doing so but the team will gain from having won the WDC and even if he doesn't like Webber winning the WDC must be something very special and I doubt Vettel won't move over just so that Webber won't win. I don't see anything wrong with that, just maximizing the results. If F1 really was a individual sport than teams wouldn't be racing 2 cars.
 
tongue_of_colicab said:
Why would I? If Vettel can't win the WDC and Webber can, than why wouldn't he let him pass? He has nothing to lose by doing so but the team will gain from having won the WDC and even if he doesn't like Webber winning the WDC must be something very special and I doubt Vettel won't move over just so that Webber won't win. I don't see anything wrong with that, just maximizing the results. If F1 really was a individual sport than teams wouldn't be racing 2 cars.
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exactly.
 
I hope Alonso wins the title, but if he can't, I hope Webber wins. If Webber does win, he will be the second Minardi F1 champion, the first one being Alonso. :D

I am not a huge fan of Vettel, though I admire his speed, but he will also be a worthy champion. I will also think better of him if he sportingly lets Webber through. It will be a gesture of great magnanimity and I am sure Webber will graciously accept it. Vettel will have more chances for the title, I am sure. Webber too but maybe not.

Alonso has been in 4 title battles in the last 6 years, in 3 different chassis, which shows just what he can do. He can do it again if he doesn't win this one.
 
Posted on Autosport forum Lewis running over the camera in the bollard whilst avoiding massa

18929828.jpg


Cracker
 
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What a delectable Q3. Vettel and Hamilton did outstanding lap times, while Alonso pulled out one important lap time getting ahead of Webber on the grid.

Code: 
[B]Pos  Driver       Car                  Q1         Q2         Q3[/B]
 1.  Vettel       Red Bull-Renault     1m40.318s  1m39.874s  1m39.394s
 2.  Hamilton     McLaren-Mercedes     1m40.335s  1m40.119s  1m39.425s
 3.  Alonso       Ferrari              1m40.170s  1m40.311s  1m39.792s
 4.  Button       McLaren-Mercedes     1m40.877s  1m40.014s  1m39.823s
 5.  Webber       Red Bull-Renault     1m40.690s  1m40.074s  1m39.925s
 6.  Massa        Ferrari              1m40.942s  1m40.323s  1m40.202s
 7.  Barrichello  Williams-Cosworth    1m40.904s  1m40.476s  1m40.203s
 8.  Schumacher   Mercedes             1m41.222s  1m40.452s  1m40.516s
 9.  Rosberg      Mercedes             1m40.231s  1m40.060s  1m40.589s
10.  Petrov       Renault              1m41.018s  1m40.658s  1m40.901s
11.  Kubica       Renault              1m41.336s  1m40.780s
12.  Kobayashi    Sauber-Ferrari       1m41.045s  1m40.783s
13.  Sutil        Force India-Ferrari  1m41.473s  1m40.914s
14.  Heidfeld     Sauber-Ferrari       1m41.409s  1m41.113s
15.  Hulkenberg   Williams-Cosworth    1m41.015s  1m41.418s
16.  Liuzzi       Force India-Ferrari  1m41.681s  1m41.642s
17.  Alguersuari  Toro Rosso-Ferrari   1m41.707s  1m41.738s
18.  Buemi        Toro Rosso-Ferrari   1m41.824s
19.  Trulli       Lotus-Cosworth       1m43.516s
20.  Kovalainen   Lotus-Cosworth       1m43.712s
21.  Glock        Virgin-Cosworth      1m44.095s
22.  di Grassi    Virgin-Cosworth      1m44.510s
23.  Senna        Hispania-Cosworth    1m45.085s
24.  Klien        Hispania-Cosworth    1m45.296s

[I]All timing unofficial[/I]
 
Tomorrow is going to be amazing. Webber has to overtake. Hamilton must win. Vettel must win. Webber must win. This is going to be super!
 
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