Formula 1 - 2010 Season

[RobertR1]

Close racing can still lead to overtaking - look at Indycar.

That's an Oval/drafting benefit. On road courses they have plenty of issues also. Still a bit better than F1.

One of the biggest issues in F1 are the braking zones. They're too narrow.

A rough example of a braking zone:
|-----------------------------------------| < Something like a C6R
|-------------| < f1 braking area

Now in the F1 braking area you're still having to scrub off a lot of speed but doing so in a very short distance due to the awesome brakes. However, your margin for trial is greatly reduced because you can't afford to brake late. The braking area is so condensed by the powerful brakes that you literally have to brake at the same spot each time. Trying to deepen your braking will have you running wide as you've carried too much speed into the corner to have any chance of holding the line.

Ofcourse the downforce adds to the braking problems but they can certainly work on the braking perfromance without making downforce cuts. Lengthening the braking zones means the drivers are willing to risk a bit more late braking to get by. This would also give people a chance to alter their setups. You might be have a car that's great on the brakes but has a mid corner push or poor turn in vs a car with great corner speed but suffers from longer braking distance. Right now, if that's the case, the car behind still has no chance because the car lenght of real estate he needs to make the pass is simply too much for the brake zones on most corners.

For closely competitive cars with capable drivers, passing eachother will always be an issue. However, when a car behind is clearly faster and still can't pass on the brakes, it's needs to be addressed.

btw, I don't want to see speeds in F1 reduced. I love F1 for it's technical marvel but you can increase things in one area while taking away from another. Not only do you preserve the speed but you make the show better.

 

[V3]

We don't need for the rules to create the actual overtaking, We just need for the car to tail each other so they can race. Right now those F1 cars can't even tail because they'll overheat or hit turbulence. So the rules need to address those problems. It sucks when you hear those radio, telling drivers that they are too close to the car in front and should back off a bit because their car is going to overheat.

Anyway Aus GP Practice Session is starting soon, can't wait.

 

[Kaotik]

Wasn't it webber or vettel that said the worst car to follow at the start of last season was the renault that didn't have a double diffuser?

The answer is to start allowing things they've outlawed. The boffins can get far more out of aero package without working the air anywhere near as much as they do now.

Perhaps diffuser helps then, but regardless the airflow behind cards is messed up and drivers have said it for years that it's next to impossible to slipstream behind the other to gain speed.
Heck, last time I remember seeing "real slipstreaming" was in Indianapolis GP when both cars of the team were on track at the same time in qualifying, giving huge speed boosts for the team mate on the long oval part

 

[Silent_Buddha]

The FIA should take a look at Indycar racing. While I don't like it at all, if you watch any race there is always overtaking and cars following closely behind each other without dramatic lose of grip like F1 suffers.

I am no aerodynamic expert but this is surely down to Indycars using a ground effect method to generate most of the downforce outlawed in F1 in the knee jerk response to Sennas untimely death.

Best idea I've heard yet in this thread. At the same time reduce somewhat the max downforce able to be contributed by the car's aero (fins, etc.).

You'd still get significant downforce through ground effects, and at the same time reduce both the turbulence generated by topside aero as well as the reliance on said aero.

Of course, there's always a downside to such things. Losing the ground effect suddenly can be quite catastrophic.

One of the biggest things hindering overtaking in F1 is losing much of your downforce as you get caught in the turbulence generated by the car in front of you.

Regards,
SB

 

[Erinyes]

That's an Oval/drafting benefit. On road courses they have plenty of issues also. Still a bit better than F1.

One of the biggest issues in F1 are the braking zones. They're too narrow.

A rough example of a braking zone:
|-----------------------------------------| < Something like a C6R
|-------------| < f1 braking area

Now in the F1 braking area you're still having to scrub off a lot of speed but doing so in a very short distance due to the awesome brakes. However, your margin for trial is greatly reduced because you can't afford to brake late. The braking area is so condensed by the powerful brakes that you literally have to brake at the same spot each time. Trying to deepen your braking will have you running wide as you've carried too much speed into the corner to have any chance of holding the line.

Ofcourse the downforce adds to the braking problems but they can certainly work on the braking perfromance without making downforce cuts. Lengthening the braking zones means the drivers are willing to risk a bit more late braking to get by. This would also give people a chance to alter their setups. You might be have a car that's great on the brakes but has a mid corner push or poor turn in vs a car with great corner speed but suffers from longer braking distance. Right now, if that's the case, the car behind still has no chance because the car lenght of real estate he needs to make the pass is simply too much for the brake zones on most corners.

For closely competitive cars with capable drivers, passing eachother will always be an issue. However, when a car behind is clearly faster and still can't pass on the brakes, it's needs to be addressed.

btw, I don't want to see speeds in F1 reduced. I love F1 for it's technical marvel but you can increase things in one area while taking away from another. Not only do you preserve the speed but you make the show better.

How about we ban carbon brakes and increase engine power

A more realistic solution i guess is ban carbon brakes and make the tyres wider and/or more grippy?

 

[infinity4]

The solution is simple. Spray 50t of water onto tracks, and we will see lots of errors and overtakes.

No doubt Ferrari will complain since they do shit whenever there is a wet race.

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

Best idea I've heard yet in this thread. At the same time reduce somewhat the max downforce able to be contributed by the car's aero (fins, etc.).

You'd still get significant downforce through ground effects, and at the same time reduce both the turbulence generated by topside aero as well as the reliance on said aero.

Of course, there's always a downside to such things. Losing the ground effect suddenly can be quite catastrophic.

One of the biggest things hindering overtaking in F1 is losing much of your downforce as you get caught in the turbulence generated by the car in front of you.

Regards,
SB

Than again, if wings break you have the same problem. I suppose with modern tech and good rules it should be possible to make rules that prevent stuff like active suspension to run the cars to extreme to the ground that a unexpected bump can let them crash or things like sideskirts hitting the ground that make the ground effect disappear if they get damaged. Just lose the plank and have flat underbelly's again and run the cars closer to the ground but not too close.

But maybe they will start complaining about costs again. You can bet on it that if you allow the ground effect back F1 will sparkle again (cool!) but the bottom of the cars will need to be replaced after each race because they get damaged every time.

 

[Tahir2]

Lewis Hamilton has apologised after his Mercedes road car was impounded by Melbourne police on Thursday evening.
The 25-year-old, who set the fastest time in Friday's Australian Grand Prix practice, is expected to be charged with improper use of a vehicle.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8589435.stm

 

[Bludd]

Quite silly of Lewis. It would be a disaster if he faces jail time. He should grovel like never before when in front of the judge.

 

[DuckThor Evil]

Quite silly of Lewis. It would be a disaster if he faces jail time. He should grovel like never before when in front of the judge.

Police constable Scott Woodford said Hamilton's rear wheels were skidding as he accelerated out of Albert Park, where Sunday's race is being staged

Sounds really serious... OMG his tires were skidding!1!

 

[Simon F]

Sounds really serious... OMG his tires were skidding!1!

The ABC (Australian Broadcasting Corp) said it was a "burnout".

 

[DuckThor Evil]

The ABC (Australian Broadcasting Corp) said it was a "burnout".

Sounds like he took a turn and let the tale slide a bit with some burned rubber. Is that a big deal, worthy of judges and speculating of jail time?

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Dunno about Australia, but in the US that would generally just result in a ticket for possibly minor infraction of reckless driving. A first offense would generally be just issued a warning and logged into the police network unless the attending police officer determined it actually jeapordized someone's safety at the time they were caught. Repeat offenses would get tickets or jail-time depending on seriousness.

Normally, I'd say at most he'd just get a ticket, but knowing how anal Australia is about some things, who knows.

Regards,
SB

 

[Colourless]

He'd probably just end up with a fine. Media is speculating it would be $600. Victoria, where the race is, is quite anal about 'hoon driving'. For him its more embarassing than anything.

 

[Billy Idol]

The solution is simple. Spray 50t of water onto tracks, and we will see lots of errors and overtakes.

No doubt Ferrari will complain since they do shit whenever there is a wet race.

I agree...but it is a little bit much water!
Just make the tires ultra worse!! This has the same effect than a water on the track...as I said, the only way to get overtakes in F1 without loosing the high tech spirit is to drastically reduce the grip of the tyres!!

 

[Simon F]

He'd probably just end up with a fine. Media is speculating it would be $600. Victoria, where the race is, is quite anal about 'hoon driving'..

Good thing for him his car wasn't "Queensland Racing Grey" or else it might have been double

 

[Bludd]

Sounds really serious... OMG his tires were skidding!1!

Well, apparently it is against the law in Australia.

Anyway, it's not good for a world champion of a sport which regulatory body is running a global road safety campaign. He is also a role model.

 

[Bludd]

Qualifying was exciting. Hamilton didn't get into Q3.

Vettel is blisteringly fast.

 

[Bludd]

I have to reiterate: Vettel's pole lap was insane, the last sector was crazy. He had a back-end slide, sparks flying going over a kerb. What a lap.

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

Yep. Its seems RBR's ride height system is way more advanced than what others have (Ferrari is the only other team having a working system?). If its hitting the ground in quali there must be some way to get it up again after putting in the fuel.

Funny to see that Vettel was faster than the 2004 Ferrari btw. All the decreasing in horsepower, trying to cut down downforce etc has now produced cars that are actually faster, especially in corners, the point where speed would be the most dangerous. Thumbs up for the FIA...