Formula 1 - 2009 Season

The FIA is only half the problem - even if the FIA issue is sorted they still have Eccelstone and CVC issues and the fact that at least 50% of the commercial revenues are going outside of F1.
I think FIA is 99% the problem because even though they want more money from Bernie, they more want Mosley out.

Bernie have said GPMA should have bought him out in 2005 when this last was an issue. Ferrari broke ranks from GPMA because of the infamous veto and cash deal they got.
 
I'm not as convinced as the doom mongers that a spilt would end up like the IRL/CART issue and, if managed effectively, it could ultimately be a good thing - imagine if FOTA managed got, say, 90% of commercial revenues back into the teams as opposed to the 50% that it is at the moment; even with lower priced agreements they could still end up with more going back to the teams and promotion of the event itself.

To break even in that situation they'd need their breakaway series to hit the ground running with commercial income of something like 56% of what F1 currently has. That is quite frankly ridiculous.

The Premier League started in much the same fashion and similar reasons as this has and that can hardly be called a failure.

The Premier League was not set up in competition with the existing Division 1. Furthermore it was set up to radically increase broadcast and sponsorship income, as the football league was sold en masse and didn't take advantage of potential commercial income, yet then distributing what little it did receive to 90+ clubs. The teams realised that they could achieve much higher commercial income if it was just the top tier negotiating on their own, and would need to do so if they would have any hope of competing with top teams across Europe. The Premier League situation is much more applicable to FISA/FOCA than this particular war. This would be akin to 15 Premier League teams breaking away from the strongest commercial league in the world to form their own alternative from scratch with no recognition from FIFA, UEFA or the FA.

Likewise, did aspiring players and fans dream of "League Division 1" or did they dream of playing for / watching Man U, Liverpool, Arsenal, etc?

Footballers want to win trophies. It's rare to find a player at Fulham who would turn down a move to Barcelona, even if they supported Fulham as a boy, they were their local team and they were incredibly happy there. If Barcelona began to struggle and Inter start winning European cups, then even those Barcelona players will start considering life in Milan.

Similarly, racing drivers want to be Formula One World Champion. Just like football, the team is an important part of that, and just like in football, things change as teams come and go, or vary in performance. Ask Hamilton (off the record, obviously) if he'd rather be in a Brawn this year than in the team which has brought him to F1 from karting, and with which he won the championship last year. There is no room for sentimentality or loyalty in these sports.

CART isnt F1. Were there actually people outside the US that could be botherd with CART/IRL? Nobody knows the drivers or teams and the best they produced, Bourdais, cant perform in F1 so that pretty much sums up the quality of the series.

I'm not going to dignify that with a response.

F1 is totally different. People want to see the big names like Ferrari and Alonso. I doubt anybody will be botherd if they are watching the really big teams and drivers in F1 or F1new.

They'll be watching the drivers, and the drivers will want to be in Formula One. Just like in the US, the drivers want to win the Indy 500 (oh wait, you've never heard of that). It's amazing to think that the draw to that particular race was able to practically bankrupt the series it broke away from. Twice.

Ferrari are in plenty of race series, and it's not like people stopped watching F1 when Alfa Romeo, Lotus, BRM, Brabham, or any number of other teams ceased to compete. Lotus are my all time favourite constructor, but I don't watch the Elise Trophy over F1.

They want to drive the fastest cars against the best drivers. It happend that you could find that in F1 for the past 60 years. If a new series offers something better, they'd want to go there. Same goes for Sponsors. They want to be where the big names are because your brand on a Ferrari in F1new is worth alot more than your brand on a souped up GP3 car in ''F1'' with a team and driver that nobody ever heard of.

I guess you can disagree, but look at the options for a driver or a sponsor:

Option 1: The name "Formula One" - known throughout the world, prestigious, followed by millions, a long and distinguished history full of legends like (to name just a few) Fangio, Moss, Clark, Hill, Stewart, Lauda, Hunt, Prost, Senna, Schumacher. Established championships, circuits, broadcast agreements, sponsorship deals. Governed by the International Automobile Federation.

Option 2: A couple of teams starting from scratch, with no official recognition, no governance structure, no circuits, no sponsors, no broadcast agreements, no history, no prestige, just the names Ferrari, McLaren, and, er... BMW and Toyota.

Plenty of tracks that would be very willing to host a GP.

What commercial benefit are they guaranteed for the cost of hosting a race for a startup series, and at the same time losing favour with the FIA and therefore taking them out of the running to host any FIA events like F1, WTCC etc?
 
To break even in that situation they'd need their breakaway series to hit the ground running with commercial income of something like 56% of what F1 currently has. That is quite frankly ridiculous.
You're making the assumption that, should they have actually done it, the thinking would be so short term that it needs to exceed revenues in the year its set up.
 
I saw his interview on the Beeb earlier.

From his body language he is either lying about stepping down or really hates the fact that he has had to make that concession. You could see his whole face contort, eyes look away and excessive blinking when talking about stepping down in October.

As his step down is not unconditional it is a possibility that when October comes he will say the F1 teams broke x,y,z of their promises to the FIA and therefore he cannot step down before resolving this issue.
 
Given that the teams are signing a new Concorde agreement, I can't see that some stipulation on governance and who will not be doing any governance wouldn't be part of that agreement!
 
Aha, but with mega ego's and big money at stake agreements can always be, "interpreted". I am pretty sure FIA had rock solid contracts in place up to 2012 as it was.

All in all - FOTA won, FIA egg faced.

Would you agree with that interpretation?
 
Max Mosley is forced out of race by an old friend


On the "Max and Bernie show"
A feature of their hegemony was their extraordinary ability to extricate themselves from even the most apocalyptic of crises. A deal was always pulled out of the fire or opponents were persuaded to change their minds in spectacular fashion. Ferrari, for example, was famously lured away from a previous threatened breakaway by a deal under which the Italian team now earns more than any other in Formula One and gets more money for winning than any other team. In the end Max and Bernie always seemed to win.
 
Aha, but with mega ego's and big money at stake agreements can always be, "interpreted". I am pretty sure FIA had rock solid contracts in place up to 2012 as it was.

All in all - FOTA won, FIA egg faced.

Would you agree with that interpretation?
Well, both sides have achieved what they wanted.
FOTA wants stability and to get rid of Max. FIA wants to cut costs and have new teams in the sport.

FOTA is going to cut costs, but they don't want Max getting into their businesses. They are also going to be giving assistance to new teams.
 
You're making the assumption that, should they have actually done it, the thinking would be so short term that it needs to exceed revenues in the year its set up.

Any shortfall in year one would have to be made up at a later stage in order to break even with what F1 could offer. This would also have to take into account projected growth of F1 over the coming years if no such split had taken place.

Also the costs surrounding setting up the new series would have been massive, making the revenues even more important, and of course these would have been front loaded.

All in all - FOTA won, FIA egg faced.

Would you agree with that interpretation?

Not at all.

Mosley said last year he was not going to run for re-election in October. FIA wanted cost reduction which they have made the teams agree to.

How teams with budgets varying by 10x will agree between themselves on costcutting measures remains to be seen. I fully expect a return to them being at each other's throats as they try to sort that one out.

I've not heard anything about what is the most important part of the deal - the financial split between Bernie and the teams from the commercial side of F1. With 13 teams rather than 10 fighting for the FOTA share, presumably it has increased, and furthermore I expect each team has agreed to a percentage increase. Maybe it's 70-75% now, but nobody is talking yet.

I would say F1 10 years ago, before they atarted slowing it down for "safety".

Was 1999 particularly dangerous? Or particularly exciting? They had already brought in narrower chassis, grooved tyres etc. The fastest lap at the 1999 Australian GP was 1:32.112 (pole 1:30.462). This year it was 1:27.706 (pole 1:26.202) :???:
 
Was 1999 particularly dangerous? Or particularly exciting? They had already brought in narrower chassis, grooved tyres etc. The fastest lap at the 1999 Australian GP was 1:32.112 (pole 1:30.462). This year it was 1:27.706 (pole 1:26.202) :???:
I am refering to the era that Senna sadly passed away and just before. That is when the racing and cars where at their best for me.

I guess I am a little older than I thought though ;)
 
Maybe they should scrap the one tyre supplier dealie and have a tyre war again.

I am interested to see the "new" 2010 regulations published. FOTA and FIA say it's going to be the 2009 regs and everything agreed to before the end of April 2009. Anyone remember when they agreed to ban refuelling? Ban tyre warmers?
 
Maybe they should scrap the one tyre supplier dealie and have a tyre war again.

No. What you end up is the tire manufacturers only catering (developing off) the top team and the rest of the teams ending up with their compounds and construction which might not work well for the car. The tiry manufacturers desire to win and support the top team, rightfully so, kills any chance of parity. Single manufacturer is the way to go for better racing. This change alone went a long way to saving WSBK and it's certainly brought the field closer in F1 and made for exciting racing.
 
No. What you end up is the tire manufacturers only catering (developing off) the top team and the rest of the teams ending up with their compounds and construction which might not work well for the car. The tiry manufacturers desire to win and support the top team, rightfully so, kills any chance of parity. Single manufacturer is the way to go for better racing. This change alone went a long way to saving WSBK and it's certainly brought the field closer in F1 and made for exciting racing.
That may be somewhat true if you have two tyre suppliers, but you could have Bridgestone, Michelin, Dunlop, Pirelli, Goodyear, Yokohama and Toyo all supplying and competing.
 
Back
Top