Formula 1 - 2009 Season

[infinity4]

Ah, but neither would Massa if he wasn't gifted the win at Spa and Kimi handing over his other win when Massa was way behind. What's your point?

Okay, I don't like Ferrari but Massa was deserved winner last season. Belgium gave 6 point advantage, China gave 2 point advantage, and Japan also gave him 2 undeserved points.

Massa lost 20 which he would definitely have won so thats 20>10.

 

[Bludd]

Okay, I don't like Ferrari but Massa was deserved winner last season. Belgium gave 6 point advantage, China gave 2 point advantage, and Japan also gave him 2 undeserved points.

Massa lost 20 which he would definitely have won so thats 20>10.

Hamilton would most likely have won in Canada if he hadn't mounted Kimi's car.

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

Uhm yes but being stupid enough not to notice a red light and a car standing still cant exactly be counted under ''He couldnt help it'' now could it? Its kinda different from your car breaking down. Not to mention that I remember Kimi also being in a good position so he also robbeb Kimi of points that could have kept him in the game for the wdc.

 

[Bludd]

Uhm yes but being stupid enough not to notice a red light and a car standing still cant exactly be counted under ''He couldnt help it'' now could it? Its kinda different from your car breaking down. Not to mention that I remember Kimi also being in a good position so he also robbeb Kimi of points that could have kept him in the game for the wdc.

Now you see how futile this woulda coulda game is?

Adrian Sutil could have won the WDC if he'd just won a lot of races.

 

[Tahir2]

I think I could have won the F1 championship if I was an F1 driver. Khaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan for the win!

 

[DJ12]

Alonso did.

The Reanult was easily the best car until Ferrari had their mass damper system banned.

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

oh my god.... You know that most cars on the grid had such a system? Including Ferrari?

 

[Phil]

Okay, I don't like Ferrari but Massa was deserved winner last season. Belgium gave 6 point advantage, China gave 2 point advantage, and Japan also gave him 2 undeserved points.

Massa lost 20 which he would definitely have won so thats 20>10.

Now that's a very one-sided argument isn't it? 20 points is a pretty bold claim, considering F1 is still a team sport and a driver succeeds or fails with the team.

Lets take engine failure (Hungary) for instance: F1 is a highly competitive sport. The teams (constructors) work within a very fine line when they construct their cars/engines to be within the boundaries of the rules, but also be as competitive as possible. A team for instance might go with a conservative engine that's more reliable without running the risk of a breakdown - another team, might push the limit harder and take the occasional fallout that may or may not occur during race as a calculated risk and bet on the advantage of having that extra performance where it is needed. It's a trade off, one the team has to make. You can applaud Ferrari for hitting that limit harder (thus having more fallouts) or you can applaud McLaren/Mercedes for having a better more reliable engine. Then there's also the driver one has to factor in and on how much of the limit he has to drive his car...

Calling Massa a victim of his engine fallout is as pointless as doing the same for Hamilton when he busted his tyres. Or when he missed the corner due to driving error. If Massa took better care of his engine during the race, it might have worked to the end? Or if Ferrari designed an engine that's perhaps wasn't right on the limit, they would have had less fallouts? However, if they had done this - maybe Massa wouldn't have won the races he did because he wouldn't have had that bit needed performance throughout.

See the pattern?

 

[Bludd]

So Ferrari couldn't get an injunction. I bet Williams and Force India will lodge their entries by the 29. May deadline. Who else of the current teams? Brawn, surely and maybe even McLaren (they have been quiet and staying out of trouble lately).

 

[DJ12]

oh my god.... You know that most cars on the grid had such a system? Including Ferrari?

No they didn't, hence why it was banned and Renault were the only team who suffered as a result.

 

[Bludd]

No they didn't, hence why it was banned and Renault were the only team who suffered as a result.

7 teams had run the system including Ferrari according to the ITV broadcast from the German GP at Hockenheim in 2006. Ross Brawn was interviewed and he said they had a lot of experience running with the device.

Renault was the team most in-tune with the device, though.

 

[infinity4]

See the pattern?

Yup I agree.

 

[DJ12]

7 teams had run the system including Ferrari according to the ITV broadcast from the German GP at Hockenheim in 2006. Ross Brawn was interviewed and he said they had a lot of experience running with the device.

Renault was the team most in-tune with the device, though.

All this is argument for the sack of argument.

OK, I will change the wording of the original point....

Ferrari had it banned because Renault made far better use of it and Ferrari couldn't keep up.

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

Oh my god. Besides there being a slightly large difference between having it and not having it, could you please enlighten us on how you know the one by Renault was far better?

 

[Bludd]

All this is argument for the sack of argument.

OK, I will change the wording of the original point....

Ferrari had it banned because Renault made far better use of it and Ferrari couldn't keep up.

No, what you said was wrong. Renault was not the only team using it.

Ferrari's reasons are pretty much spot on though. They complained because they couldn't use it as well as Renault could. If that was because the Bridgestone tyres or whatever, I don't know. It was a spring-mounted mass that vibrated to cancel out vibrations at the front end when going over kerbs etc. It's not rocket science, they are used in skyscrapers at a much larger scale but the principle is the same.

Anyway Renault consulted with FIA when they made it, the scrutineers at Hockenheim 2006 deemed it legal, FIA said they would appeal but Renault scrapped the system because they didn't want to race it and then have their result deleted if FIA won the appeal (and FIA usually wins appeals).

 

[Bludd]

From Renault F1 Paddock Pass.

 

[Bludd]

One thing, what is with Kimi and his caps this year?

 

[Zaphod]

One thing, what is with Kimi and his caps this year?

What about it? It's just a "sponsor's cap". Same UAE guys that have been funneling money into AMD as of late. They've had those since 2007.

 

[Bludd]

What about it? It's just a sponsor's cap. Same UAE guys that have been funneling money into AMD as of late. They've had those since 2007.

It looks so big and silly. Why doesn't he bend the flap? He kinda looks like a truck driver.

 

[Davros]

He's practicing for his next career