Formula 1 - 2009 Season

[Bludd]

Is manufacturer's championship also decided by the wins or are the points used in here?

Constructors' championship is decided solely by points, so no change.

Yes, the weakness of this systems is if someone dominates the winners podium. The season could be over half way. There are like only 2 drivers with 9 wins in a season, Mansell and Schumacher. And only Schumacher have repeated the feat more than once (multiple times in fact) and why the rule was changed in the first place. So I don't think we should worry too much, unless we have another Schumacher situation. The season would be boring regardless the points system used.

Yeah, you are right.

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

What about the tiered system FIA has come up with? Same as now vs. budget cap with almost no limits on tech. I am ambivalent, but I like the no limits part.

Ed Gorman of The Times notes that Mosley has a history of saber rattling to get people in line and then do some compromising.

As I said, what are you going to do with 30million? Actually its not even 30million because you have to buy your engines (now way you can build a car and do your own engine work for 30m) which is like 5 million in the new deal, than you also have to pay the drivers and team principal. Even if they want to work a low wage that is still 10m so half your budget is already gone before even having a car. And there are more costs that you cant get away from like buying the tires etc. You'll be left with so little money to having no or little tech limit is useless as you cant even run a decent development program. Hell, whats the use in having no rev limit for example if you've got to buy your engine because there isnt enough budget to build your own? Non of the teams providing engines is going to enter the cap.

And as I said how open is it to cheating like entering without the cap and than spending as much as you can for a car with no limits to enter the next season under the cap?

 

[Bludd]

Both Joe Saward (can't seem to find the link ATM, will hunt) and James Allen believe the £30 million figure is a negotiation starting point. Remember the standard engine Mosley was adamant about? This is Bernie and Mosley trying to divide and conquer the teams.

 

[Davros]

how about a standard body since most of the money seems to be spend on aero

 

[Bludd]

But then the cars would all look the same and we'd have another GP2.

Standardise brakes, wheelnuts and wheels.

Edit: Bernie also thinks £30 million may be too low.

 

[Mariner]

Personally, I hope one of the drivers wins the first 9 races then decides to take an extended holiday rather than bothering with the rest of them.

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

how about a standard body since most of the money seems to be spend on aero

Oh yes and turn whats left of F1 into a spec series? Great. I mean engines are already pretty much all the same because of the rules, there are no tyre wars anymore etc. About the only thing teams can do for their own that actually has a decent impact on performance is the aero.

I said before I dont mind a standard aero, or better, a very tight ruled aero pack but only if they open up the rest of the regulations and not within some lowely 30m cap that can barely pay for getting the car on the grid, let alone build something decent.

 

[DuckThor Evil]

I like the fact that there is more emphasis on winning, but I think the "Bludd" scroring system would have been better. Drivers might take more risks to win now, but they won't be taking as many risks to gain for example from 4th to 3rd and if you have to start from behind the pack, you might just aswell give up.

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

How much drivers have you seen taking alot of risk to get from 4th to 3rd last season? It will also depends on how competative the cars will be. If there are a bunch of cars really close as the front, than I think it wont be strange to see the first 2 rows battle it out. So if its close enough the racing even for 2nd and 3rd place will increase as you might still be able to get up front and even if you dont your points still count for the CWC, 2nd place WDC and maybe incase of a draw, same with other positions so overall i'd say its a increase even though maybe not as big as it could have been.

 

[dizietsma]

The times they drive now are absolutely irrelevant, you can't make any estimates based on them. No team is driving full throttle yet.

Are McLaren running any throttle?

 

[dizietsma]

I'll give the most wins system a year to see how it pans out

 

[nutball]

Maybe I'm an old cynic but doesn't this new win-centric scheme increase the incentive to shove the leader off the road?

how about a standard body since most of the money seems to be spend on aero

And a standard colour too, paint them all red and call them all Ferrari

 

[DuckThor Evil]

How much drivers have you seen taking alot of risk to get from 4th to 3rd last season?

The proposed new scoring system would have been 12-9-7-5 instead of 10-8-6-5, so it would have encouraged drivers to win also and to get to the podium, it would have also encouraged championship contenders to battle for the last point positions as even one point could easily make you a champion, that is still possible, but so unlikely that I think it'll the change the driving behaviour to more boring.

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

Well that new point system would hardly been much of a encouragment if you ask me. You can win 1 point extra over 1st and 3rd place. I doubt any driver is going to risk alot more just for 1 point extra over the old system. The point (lol) is that everything stays the same for people who cant win the WDC anyway, so for them there will still be as much reason to battle for positions as before and for the people who can go for the WDC atleast from a spectators point of view things will change for the better I think as now you have to try and win. They cant sandbag anymore, its either win and get everything or lose or get nothing.

It will all depend on how the new cars play out I think. If there are a bunch of teams really close and the new rules really do improve overtaking chances than it will work out great I think. If 1 team gets it right and others dont, well, than it will be over pretty quick. Than again, the result would be the same with the points system only it would take a bit longer.

 

[Bludd]

So Renault are going to run KERS in Australia. Who else? If no one else does it, do you think Renault will have a significant advantage?

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

Ferrari and Mclaren also have a working unit. RBR might use it as they run renault engines? BMW have a working unit too I believe. I dont know who will run it though. As far as I know it will be a race by race driver by driver case whether to use it or not. I suppose teams will check out first what configuration will be faster before using it.

I dont know if there will be any advantage using it or not. Sure you get the extra boost for 6+ seconds but you also have to carry 80kg extra all the time, it hurts the balance of the cars, it makes things harder for the rear tyres etc. I suppose the speed you might gain could also be easily lost. I mean, Toyota didnt even bother designing a unit as they feel it wont be a benefit anyway. Now they arnt to team to follow blind but there arnt stupid either I suppose. Probably the high speed tracks where you wont lose alot of time in slow corners and where the tyre wear is not as big are probably the tracks where KERS might offer something extra. But tracks like Monaco probably wont use KERS I think as its more about fast cornering and needing to have good balance rather than extra power.

 

[Dave Baumann]

Ferrari and Mclaren also have a working unit.

I've not heard much from McLaren on KERS recently, but Force India also have the same unit and they said they won't be running it.

The McLaren pace of aero development has been quite interesting. Just looking at the images for testing over the past few days there have been three diffuser updates brought on, front wing updates and rear end changes as well.

 

[Bludd]

Yeah, they have really hustled in the last days of testing. McLaren have been silent on KERS, BMW have said they don't know if they will use it, but they have one that's working. RBR may use it, but have they even run with it yet?

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

I've not heard much from McLaren on KERS recently, but Force India also have the same unit and they said they won't be running it.

The McLaren pace of aero development has been quite interesting. Just looking at the images for testing over the past few days there have been three diffuser updates brought on, front wing updates and rear end changes as well.

FI wont run it because they cant fit it in their car yet.

 

[Bludd]

It doesn't matter what Force India does, if Adrian Sutil does well, someone else will crash into him and Fisico will most likely let someone pass him in the last lap of the race.