Formula 1 - 2008 Season

[tongue_of_colicab]

I really dont see the problem. This is exactly the same that happend to mclaren after the first hearing. Mclaren was also found guilty of having Ferrari data but didnt get punishment because they couldnt prove mclaren used it. After the appeal they did get fined mostly because of all the emails that went around proving they actually took a good look at the data and tried some things. Also a big difference with the renault case is that mclaren actually had contact over Ferrari data for several months while renault only had some data brought over by a engineer.

So there defenitly are some large differences in the situation. I agree with renault not getting any punishment. Though they did apparently had some drawings, they were brought over by a engineer and its impossible to not let IP move around teams because even if the engineer doesnt take drawings with him he still has all the knowledige in his head. Also given the performance of renault this season even if they used data its obvious it wasnt any use to them and they defenitly didnt had a advantage because of it.

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

F1 News analysis.

One thing we do know for certain is that the two decisions taken feature completely different attitudes towards the teams in question with one being given the benefit of the doubt at every turn and the other being doubted at every turn and indeed ruled to have been doing something wrong based on no real evidence. Why was that?

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

Why was that?

Because unlike renault mclaren had alot more data, collected data over a couple of months, asked for specific data, discussing data openly true email, lying about whether they got Ferrari data or not, lying about data renault supposedly had but didnt.

Unless somebody is blinded by their UK glasses its not hard to see there are some important differences. Besides that, that 100million fine wasnt really that heavy, alot of it they dont even have to pay so given Renault did less bad things its not so suprising they got away with it.

 

[dizietsma]

Hold on a minute, aren't the FIA supposed to uphold the rules? They say Renualt broke the rules so what are they are going to do about it ? Forget comparisons with McLaren, Reault have been found in breech of one the rules.

So, in effect you can disregard that rule, so what's the point of having it in the first place?

 

[Bludd]

Except you can't, as shown by the McLaren fine.
But you can, as shown by the Renault verdict.

Looks like it alternates between a huge fine and acquittal. Woe to the next one charged with breaking that article!

 

[dizietsma]

Hold on a minute, aren't the FIA supposed to uphold the rules? They say Renualt broke the rules so what are they are going to do about it ? Forget comparisons with McLaren, Renault have been found in breech of one the rules.

So, in effect you can disregard that rule, so what's the point of having it in the first place?

 

[V3]

That's very inconsistent. Renault don't need to benefit from the information. All McLaren have to do is show Renault intent to use them for advantage. And Renault admitted that much. Renault should receive the same as McLaren.

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

Hold on a minute, aren't the FIA supposed to uphold the rules? They say Renualt broke the rules so what are they are going to do about it ? Forget comparisons with McLaren, Renault have been found in breech of one the rules.

So, in effect you can disregard that rule, so what's the point of having it in the first place?

As I said, this ruling is exactly the same as happend to Mclaren in their first hearing so the FIA is doing exactly as they did before. But people dont seem to read or think about it a minute and just want to blame FIA for doing exactly the same as they did before (most people seem to, very conveniantly, forget this). Read my previous 2 posts about why the renault case is different from the mclaren one.

 

[Gerry]

Alonso opts for Renault return.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7136498.stm

 

[_xxx_]

Wow, I just read something about 100 million €uro for two years. Damn.

 

[dizietsma]

As I said, this ruling is exactly the same as happend to Mclaren in their first hearing so the FIA is doing exactly as they did before. But people dont seem to read or think about it a minute and just want to blame FIA for doing exactly the same as they did before (most people seem to, very conveniantly, forget this). Read my previous 2 posts about why the renault case is different from the mclaren one.

But have the FIA showed McLaren to have gained advantage from the Ferrari information, that is what the fine rests on ? No, the FIA have not, as far as I can tell. Same with Renault, they have not been found to have gained advantage even though they did similar things to McLaren, such as protest a mechanical part to the FIA from the info they had.

As for UK glasses, both teams are British !

 

[DJ12]

What advantage?

Having an illegal part of Ferraris car scrutinised and then banned?

 

[Bludd]

Alonso opts for Renault return.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7136498.stm

Good, and as expected.

I hope Kovalainen goes to McLaren. Fisi? I don't really care as much about him, but watching him languish in a Force India all season may be interesting.

 

[Dave Baumann]

I hope Kovalainen goes to McLaren.

So do I, though there were reports over the weekend that Pedro may be at the head of the race to get in that seat - if this is the case then I guess this would be done to apease the Spanish backers that were expecting Alonso there. These reports were before the Alonso/Piquet/Renault announcement though, so we'll have to wait and see if they were just unfounded rumors or not.

 

[Bludd]

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns19924.html

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

I'm getting tierd of all the brits whining. Sure the FIA trying to shut people up that say things they dont like is wrong period but for the love of god stop complaing about the macca fine. There are obvious differences between the renault and macca case.

 

[DJ12]

The problem with the tongue is all us whining brits is we know that Renault is actually a british team too.

If people in the sport are dumbfounded by the outcome, then maybe you should actually open your eyes to the fact you are wrong, and are just showing anti-brit biased.

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

Renault = french because renault is a french company. That fact that their factory is in england and most of the workers are probably english doesnt change that. In the eye of most people Renault will be french. You dont say Toyota is german because their factory is in germany either right?

And all those people that dont get the outcome, most of them are british. Well, I dont get the idea that anyone is willing to have a decent discussion about why renault didnt get blamed so i wont bother again but before you start screaming remember the renault ruling is exactly the same as happend to mclaren the first ruling.

 

[DJ12]

Who did Ferrari prove saw their documents?

One guy.

The actual "evidence" in the spying row that cost McLaren 50 million were a few emails about settings and fuel loads resulting from conversations between the two camps, not any "documents". (If you went up and down the grid I bet you everyone knows what everyone uses in any case)

So, which is more damning, a few emails about settings which didn't work on their car anyway, and 9 people having signed witness statements stating that they saw the files.

You can say there the same all you like, but it isn't ever going to make you right in this instance.

They are not the same at all.

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

They are not the same at all.

Indeed, and that is why renault didnt get punished. I was talking about the first verdict btw. In the mclaren case they were also found guilty but didnt get punished. Only after the email case which discussed Ferrari material they got punished. You also seem to forget mclaren had a 780page techdoc from Ferrari.